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Meade 178ED

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#1 starman876

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 12:18 PM

Have heard so many good things and some  bad things about this scope.  The one I had was a wonderful scope and others have said the same thing,  There were two versions. the first did not allow for centering the optics the second Meade modified so the optics could be aligned,   Would like to hear from those who had a 178ED and what they thought of the scope.  This way we can tell just how good or bad the 178ED was.   Was it a small number that were bad or was it a very high percentage.  would like to get input from folks who actually had one.  


Edited by starman876, 31 January 2025 - 12:20 PM.

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#2 Nappa

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 12:25 PM

Just waiting for Chas to chime in with his tales of woe.... smile.gif


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#3 skyward_eyes

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 12:26 PM

I had one for about a year or two. 

 

I had always wanted one and finally was able to get a hold of one through a friend. It was a very impressive telescope and gave me a chance at the time to get feel for a large refractor. 

 

Optically it was pretty good. I eventually sold it because my Esprit 150 out performed it and was much easier to move around. But it was a fun scope and I am glad I got to own one. Mine was the newer one with the collimating cell. 

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  • 44859929_1883032611816494_7937235430003441664_n.jpg

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#4 junomike

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 12:35 PM

The issue wasn't only having the provision for centring the optics but the size of the optics (related to the cell)  as well.

If you got lucky and had a tighter fitting (tolerance) lens/cell combo then once the Meade Mod was done the lens would hold and all was well.

 

Unfortunately many were made with the lens far too small for the cell, thus it flopped around within the cell and would go out of alignment when you moved the OTA (or slewed it around on a Mount).

 

The 178ED I had as well as a friends was exactly like this, however my 152ED doesn't even have the Meade Mod and stays in place (and collimation).

 

Some people have had luck wrapping the lens in tape to achieve a better tolerance, however IMO the only real way to fix a 178ED properly would be to house a new cell or add the plastic screws to hold the outer most lens secure as seem in the pic below (which is a 152ED)

 

 

152ed modified cell.JPG


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#5 Lagrange

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 12:41 PM

Just waiting for Chas to chime in with his tales of woe.... smile.gif

Tales of woe? I'm pretty sure Chas considers the Meade 178ED to be the best scope he's ever owned! smile.gif


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#6 Martin

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 12:41 PM

Just waiting for Chas to chime in with his tales of woe.... smile.gif

Lets see. Chas's post will go something like this.  The Meade 178ED, been there done that Matt. I really feel cheated by Meade, as the one I got had to go back to Meade 15 times. Each time it was sent back to me from Meade it was worse than the time before. A guy down the road from me ended up with it and the scope broke his jaw, not once but twice. That scope must have been possessed.

Yes, I do believe Chas got a bad one but my guess is that it could have been fixed, but sending it to Meade and then the trip back to Chas was more than the optics could take, it just decentered again each time. 

Yes Chas, I know you did not send it back 15 times but I have heard the story so many times, it seems like 15 times to me. I bet you could have fixed that 178ED yourself and kept it from decentering. 

I hope you can get another one that is good. I know there are good one's out there. You should really try at least one more. 

 

Martin 


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#7 HARRISON SCOPES

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 01:11 PM

They are not terribly difficult to fix but as always there are risks taking optics in and out of cells.
Spacers around the lens edges and three adjustable threaded nylon or nylon tipped bolts to correct the movement..
I really liked mine, very light for a 7 inch f9, well behind today's doublet ED models though.

Edited by HARRISON SCOPES, 31 January 2025 - 01:12 PM.

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#8 deSitter

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 03:02 PM

I had one for about a year or two. 

 

I had always wanted one and finally was able to get a hold of one through a friend. It was a very impressive telescope and gave me a chance at the time to get feel for a large refractor. 

 

Optically it was pretty good. I eventually sold it because my Esprit 150 out performed it and was much easier to move around. But it was a fun scope and I am glad I got to own one. Mine was the newer one with the collimating cell. 

Is that a Byers mount?

 

-drl



#9 skysurfer

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 03:10 PM

I had one for about a year or two. 

 

I had always wanted one and finally was able to get a hold of one through a friend. It was a very impressive telescope and gave me a chance at the time to get feel for a large refractor. 

 

Optically it was pretty good. I eventually sold it because my Esprit 150 out performed it and was much easier to move around. But it was a fun scope and I am glad I got to own one. Mine was the newer one with the collimating cell. 

Nice picture ! But what a behemoth, a 16" Dob is IMHO easier to handle ...



#10 Dave Novoselsky

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 04:21 PM

Meade 178? Better a tax audit than the Meade.  The one I had was impossible for Meade to fix back then and no doubt hardly any better now. The encounter Chas had with this piece of misdesign and poor build was hardly unique.  Putting lipstick on this pig will still leave it a pig.


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#11 vtornado

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 06:08 PM

Putting lipstick on this pig will still leave it a pig.  ---   mmmm BBQ

 

In the days of 3D printing can a new cell be printed?  To weak?  Tolerances not tight enough?



#12 jragsdale

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 06:08 PM

I'm hoping one pops up locally that has severe lens centering issues for cheap so I can try my hand at shimming/fixing it or having a new tight tolerance cell machined for it to share the experience. I love a challenge like that.


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#13 jragsdale

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 06:10 PM

In the days of 3D printing can a new cell be printed?  To weak?  Tolerances not tight enough?

You can nail the tolerances on a 3D printed cell. But I would think the issue would be thermal expansion. But I don't know how terrible the original Meade cell was so can't say how loose it was.



#14 Airship

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 06:13 PM

Same here. I love scopes like these. They occasionally show up at a very attractive price and I enjoy the challenge of turning a problem child into a gorgeous scope. I haven’t found a scope yet I couldn’t tame including the 178ED’s smaller sibling, the 152ED...

 

Atlas 152ED (10-10-2021)-1.jpg

 

Fun stuff.

 

 


Edited by Airship, 31 January 2025 - 06:15 PM.

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#15 CHASLX200

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 07:12 PM

Beaten too death and everyone knows 9 out of 10 ben where not so hot. Mine was a hunk of junk as most know.


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#16 skyward_eyes

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 07:56 PM

Is that a Byers mount?

-drl


That’s a Paramount MX with an 18” extension.

#17 Heywood

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 07:58 PM

Put a want ad on Astromart or Cloudy Nights.



#18 Lagrange

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 08:00 PM

You can nail the tolerances on a 3D printed cell. But I would think the issue would be thermal expansion. But I don't know how terrible the original Meade cell was so can't say how loose it was.

I think you're right. A lot of plastics have much higher coefficients of thermal expansion than aluminium so it could be a problem.



#19 deSitter

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 01:47 PM

You can nail the tolerances on a 3D printed cell. But I would think the issue would be thermal expansion. But I don't know how terrible the original Meade cell was so can't say how loose it was.

Easy (well relatively easy) to make a spring loaded cell to maintain centering - like the old large refractors.

 

My 5" has been everywhere including 2000 mile trips in the back of a van, and hasn't lost an arcsecond of collimation.

 

-drl


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#20 starman876

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 07:37 PM

Easy (well relatively easy) to make a spring loaded cell to maintain centering - like the old large refractors.

 

My 5" has been everywhere including 2000 mile trips in the back of a van, and hasn't lost an arcsecond of collimation.

 

-drl

the lens would shift in the cell.  However, not all had this problem.  Might have been the slop in their milling machine that caused all the issues. Maybe more than on shop was making the lens cells.   Mine was shipped cross country and was fine.  Guess I was really lucky.  Was a great scope.  I miss it.  


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#21 starman876

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Posted 04 February 2025 - 09:54 PM

A  lot of chatter on the Meade 178 lately. Glad to see there are folks who really enjoyed the scope.


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#22 CHASLX200

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Posted 05 February 2025 - 07:03 AM

More did not enjoy it.


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#23 bobhen

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Posted 05 February 2025 - 08:11 AM

the lens would shift in the cell.  However, not all had this problem.  Might have been the slop in their milling machine that caused all the issues. Maybe more than on shop was making the lens cells.   Mine was shipped cross country and was fine.  Guess I was really lucky.  Was a great scope.  I miss it.  

I don't believe it was slop. It was how the lens elements were designed. The lens elements had steep curves and probably a wider air gap than a normal doublet. This was done to get reasonable color correction using a less expensive ED glass and only using a doublet instead of a triplet. Later lens cells had lens alignment screws. These are not collimation screws but are used to align the two lens elements themselves, keeping the lens elements centered. The original cell for the 7" could not even keep the lens elements aligned during shipping. And the hassle of packing and shipping a 7" refractor back to Meade cannot be overstated.

 

Some may have gotten a 7" with the cell fix. But even then, I would not want to have to spend thousands on a large refractor and possibly have to deal with aligning lens elements somewhere down the road. The smaller sizes seem to fair better.

 

The 7" might be fine for those that want to pick up an inexpensive used sample and spend the time tinkering. But if you want a larger refractor that will work properly right out of the box without taking a chance, look elsewhere.

There's a reason that these Meade doublets had a short lifespan in the marketplace.

 

Agema now makes large doublet apo refractors but their lens cells are a lot more robust. And in order to get better color correction, they use a unique lens design that incorporates Fluorite as the ED element. These Agema refractors are not inexpensive. 

 

Bob


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#24 Jan-S

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Posted 05 February 2025 - 08:48 AM

I really drooled over this line of Meades as a teenager. Especially the 152 since it had the larger mount and hence looked more stable. These apos seemed like the absolute pinnacle of optical, mechanical and electric design to my inexperienced eyes. The mounts looked great, with their integrated jacks and connectors. Knowing what I know now, it would have been such an injustice had my parents given in to me & spent their hard-earned savings on a boondoggle. These days, fortunately, thanks to CN and the like, good marketing can't outlast bad user experience! 


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#25 Dave Novoselsky

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Posted 05 February 2025 - 09:27 AM

More did not enjoy it.

Yep


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