27 replies to this topic

[Kvikram20]

Hi,
I am looking to get a telescope. I have never owned one and this will be my first. I want it for mostly viewing (as many objects as feasible) and maybe down the line hook it up with my DSLR for some astrophotography.

Would any of the following be a good choice to introduce astronomy to my kids ( ages 6 and 3) and family? Will mostly be using it from my backyard.

I am in California, and want or keep the initial investment close to $500.

Here are the few choices I have - for both the used items below, I can see them in person and verify if they are clean.


1. Used Celestron C8 ultima with fork mount and PEC hand controls- $450
2. New Explore Scientific first light Dobsonian 8 inch - $500
3. Used Celestron Nexstar 6SE - $600

Which of the 3 would be a good buy for my situation?

Appreciate your help with this!

[vtornado]

I would start visual at first.  Taking pictures is a complicating task.   If you want you could get a phone holder and take some simple snaps of bright objects with your cell phone.

 

C8 ultima is a nice scope, but ... I would be nervous about motors, gears and software on a used scope.  There is an alignment procedure that needs to be learned.  It is kind of big and complicated for kids to use.

 

C6 is smaller and lighter.  I'm unsure if you can connect a DSLR due to weight and mount interference.  The warrantee would guard against any issues with the drive. 

 

A dob is a kid friendly scope.   Your 6 year old may be able to drive it now or in a few years.  It does not have tracking, so you have to keep bumping it to share the view. Nothing to break on a dob.   The scope may not have enough focus travel for any camera.  This scope will have a wider field of view than the SCTs if used with two inch eyepieces.  This is important for viewing large objects and finding things.

[rgk901]

astrophotography is a bit involved none of your choices are great, although the SCT's would do planets well.

I'll say the Dob is a great choice for visual and look into a ZWO seestar50 for some deep sky photos that are easy peesy if the itch is there.

for real AP you'll need a great mount and a decent scope, reducers/correctors if not a corrected scope / filters / and modify your DSLR or get an Astro camera.. just to start

[bobzeq25]

Hi,
I am looking to get a telescope. I have never owned one and this will be my first. I want it for mostly viewing (as many objects as feasible) and maybe down the line hook it up with my DSLR for some astrophotography.

Would any of the following be a good choice to introduce astronomy to my kids ( ages 6 and 3) and family? Will mostly be using it from my backyard.

I am in California, and want or keep the initial investment close to $500.

Here are the few choices I have - for both the used items below, I can see them in person and verify if they are clean.


1. Used Celestron C8 ultima with fork mount and PEC hand controls- $450
2. New Explore Scientific first light Dobsonian 8 inch - $500
3. Used Celestron Nexstar 6SE - $600

Which of the 3 would be a good buy for my situation?

Appreciate your help with this!

Help.

Note that we're not supposed to discuss astrophotography here. So I'll limit this to a couple of overly short statements. You'll find the second one hard to believe. But. it's VERY true. I cannot possibly emphasize that enough. It's not something I thought up. It's an observed fact.

Any of those would be usable for photographs of the very bright Moon and planets. And they'd be USELESS for photographs of deep space objects. Completely useless.

As stated above you'd need something else for DSO photographs, like a Seestar. Which is a GREAT family telescope, quite possibly the very best family telescope, you can all sit around a laptop or a tablet and watch together.

Edited by bobzeq25, 31 January 2025 - 07:12 PM.

[SeattleScott]

A Dob means looking through the top of the tube. Your kids are short. It would be easier for them to reach the eyepiece if they are viewing through the bottom of the tube, like a SCT or refractor. You can even rotate the diagonal up for you, and down for them. Of those choices, I would get the 6” SCT. Don’t expect to have much success with your DSLR, but it is a good visual scope and very portable, easy to setup, you can even add Starsense to it. Just read about insulating it with Reflectix and get a dew shield.

When you have real money to spend, and loads of time to spend, go over to the imaging forums and ask about a good setup for DSLR Astrophotography.

[Japetus Eye]

Hello and welcome to this great and wonderful hobby. I think that when you have the opportunity to enjoy it with your family, the pleasure is even greater.

 

From the options you present, I would definitely choose the Dob. I think it is the best option for a beginner, due to its ease of use (very intuitive), it is an f/6, so it has a slightly higher tolerance to decollimation than f/5 ones, it has a larger field of view than the SCTs mentioned, it has a good focuser with an adapter for 2" to 1.25" eyepieces... in short, and because it is ultimately a truly all-round telescope.

 

The SCTs are also good all-round telescopes, but I have some doubts about the fact that the ones you propose are used... The C8 Ultima can already be considered a classic telescope, and the Nexstar 6SE can be interesting if you need to go to places with darker skies. But you should consider that to use them properly they must be previously aligned, they involve electronics, they may not be the best starting point for a neophyte or for a 6-year-old child...

 

Here are several links that may provide you with more information and help you make your decision.

https://www.cloudyni...-first-light-8/

https://telescopicwa...bsonian-review/

https://www.cloudyni...c8-pec-in-2024/

https://www.cloudyni...assegrain-r4664

[Jethro7]

Hello, 

My choice would be the Dob. However I second what Bobzeg25, posted and it just may be the better choice for your situation "like a Seestar. Which is a GREAT family telescope, quite possibly the very best family telescope, you can all sit around a laptop or a tablet and watch together" 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

Edited by Jethro7, 31 January 2025 - 07:37 PM.

[sevenofnine]

Welcome to C/N! 

 

+1 on the Seestar S50 or possibly the new and cheaper S30. Visual and AP (astrophotography) are really two different hobbies that require different equipment. If you want to start with visual first then move into AP in a year or so then the Dob is the best choice IMO...preferably new with warranty and customer service support from the dealer. However, if easy AP is all you really want then the new Smart Scopes are terrific. They are very easy and automated. Fun for everyone. Best of luck to you! 

 

.

 

 

[Kvikram20]

Thanks for all your replies.

I am considering still to either get the C8 ultima or the ES 8 inch dobsonian. Here are my thoughts for the scopes.

C8
Really good scope.
Once, polar aligned does have decent tracking which should be good enough (for the planets at least).
If needed can be deforked and mounted onto a more modern mount.

Dobsonian
Obviously simpler to use but lacks tracking and to add any amount of tracking is not feasible. Also, it may be more cumbersome to use.

Smart telescope - it seems very good idea but wouldn't that be a similar experience as watching videos and pictures already available online?

I am more inclined to get the C8 but will really appreciate your inputs on this.

Thanks a ton!

[SeattleScott]

I have a friend nearby who has good horizons so I sometimes go there to stargaze. She likes seeing stars too so I have an open invitation to come over anytime I want to stargaze. I recently got a Seestar. She doesn’t seem as interested in standing out in the cold, watching an image develop on a phone, as looking through an eyepiece. It’s interesting to me because Seestar can do justice to targets my medium aperture scopes can’t, and deliver views in color. And perhaps it is more interesting to me because I am the one creating the image, with my equipment.

Ultimately, that’s the appeal of imaging. Even a $30k imaging rig isn’t going to compete with Hubble or JWST. The appeal is that you created it. A sense of ownership. Otherwise it’s just a pretty picture on a screen, that you could get sitting on a warm couch. So it’s not for everyone, and it doesn’t have the same magic as looking through an eyepiece. But it is super easy and it keeps me from just looking at the same set of bright DSO that I can see well with my scopes and light pollution.

You might think of it a bit like this. I go to my kid’s little league games. On average there are about 2.2 fielding errors per batted ball in play. The “quality” of play is horrendous, even by Mariners standards. But it’s interesting to me because it’s my kid out there. It wouldn’t be of any interest if my kid wasn’t out there, actually thinking of running to first when the first baseman goes to field a ball.

[Inkie]

Rule The First: Aperture is king.  You're in the right zone with an 8" scope.  I would counsel you to get a Dob, but if you can spring a few more coins, get a 10".  Your kid(s) won't be using any scope alone, so you'll always be the mule to get it out safely and back inside again.  That problem is solved.  The views, though, will be amazing, and it will have more reach.

 

My first real scope was an 11" SCT.  Very heavy, but the equatorial mount was essential to have satisfying tracking (this was a 1989 fork and wedge on a tripod).  I would agree to an SCT, but as others with more experience, especially buying used, have cautioned, you don't know what you're getting.  If it's a sure thing, then that would be a good option.  How old is the primary?  They do lose their silvering/aluminizing over time.  You would want to do a star test to establish if it needs collimating.

 

These days, a 6" scope, especially a Dobsonian, is very basic.  It's a great scope on which to learn the basics, including adjusting the light path (collimating it), but it's decidedly small-ish.  I would say get an 8" at least, a ten is the sweet spot for many Dob users.   I have a 12", and I'm 72.  I hope I can keep horsing it around for another ten years, but reality will be blunt with me.

 

A refractor is the classical scope that everyone knows.  They're simpler to operate, but they are necessarily small and long for their aperture if the optics are not first class.  They tend to be costly if you want good glass.  They're easy to use at the eyepiece end because you can sit and enjoy the view.  It's a bit more involved on a Dob if it is a larger one, especially for kids.  And you must stand, usually, or they will have to.  Means more bumping and the re-establishing the line of sight to the target often. Seated kids will be more steady and less grabby.

[revans]

Thanks for all your replies.

I am considering still to either get the C8 ultima or the ES 8 inch dobsonian. Here are my thoughts for the scopes.

C8
Really good scope.
Once, polar aligned does have decent tracking which should be good enough (for the planets at least).
If needed can be deforked and mounted onto a more modern mount.

Dobsonian
Obviously simpler to use but lacks tracking and to add any amount of tracking is not feasible. Also, it may be more cumbersome to use.

Smart telescope - it seems very good idea but wouldn't that be a similar experience as watching videos and pictures already available online?

I am more inclined to get the C8 but will really appreciate your inputs on this.

Thanks a ton!

The C8 is a native f/10 with a focal length close to 2000mm.  It will be good for the moon and planets but the true field of view will be narrow without a focal reducer like the Celestron 0.63x .  My decision a couple of years ago was to buy a used C6 with a native focal length of 1500mm.  It is fine for the moon and planets and with a focal reducer deep sky views are wide enough to be enjoyable.

 

Rick

[SeattleScott]

The concern with the Ultima is its age. The tracking motor is nice but it could fail and not be worth fixing. The mirror coating is the older, less reflective kind. And could be starting to fail. Or the coating might last another 20 years. We just don’t know. Especially without getting a good look at them. The current stuff coming out of China is pretty good quality. The older US made scopes were mostly good , other than a few years around Comet Halley. Do you know what year the Ultima was made?

Granted, the tube alone is worth perhaps $400 if the coating is in good condition, so there’s that. The age gives me pause, but at the right price, it does make sense.

[Kvikram20]

I have a few pics of the C8 ultima and the owner mentioned it may have been from 92s. 

 

Please take a look at the pics. 

Attached Thumbnails

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[Dave Mitsky]

I agree that buying a used SCT can be a risky proposition.

[daveb2022]

The ES dob would be a good choice being it's like a giant grab and go scope. If stored close to the observing site, they are quick and easy to set up and provide a simple stable platform with not much to go wrong. Put either a telrad or laser finder on it, and it would make a great planet scope.

 

But when viewing with others, go-to and a scope that tracks is a nice benefit IMO. Perhaps test the water with the dob and consider saving some pennies for a go-to model down the road. Or maybe Astrohopper... you can download it and see how it works before making a scope purchase.

I do feel some kids are a bit difficult to capture their attention. Rather than spending 500 bucks on ES, it might be a thought to just spend a couple hundred more for an 8" Celestron dob with starsense. 

 

I use and prefer an SCT as my primary scope these days and prefer push-to with DSC's.  But my old XT-8 is the way to go when I observe anything close to zenith. I'd like a larger dob, but find the 8" is the Goldilocks size for my purposes. The dob will always be a valuable tool in my astronomy toolbox.

 

Good luck on your choice.

[SeattleScott]

The mirror doesn’t show obvious signs of coating failure. The picture isn’t the same as inspecting it in person, but I have seen worse.

[gnowellsct]

Thanks for all your replies.

I am considering still to either get the C8 ultima or the ES 8 inch dobsonian. Here are my thoughts for the scopes.

C8
Really good scope.
Once, polar aligned does have decent tracking which should be good enough (for the planets at least).
If needed can be deforked and mounted onto a more modern mount.

Dobsonian
Obviously simpler to use but lacks tracking and to add any amount of tracking is not feasible. Also, it may be more cumbersome to use.

Smart telescope - it seems very good idea but wouldn't that be a similar experience as watching videos and pictures already available online?

I am more inclined to get the C8 but will really appreciate your inputs on this.

Thanks a ton!

You have a good grasp of the issues. For me tracking is highly desirable. I have a couple of refractors I use without tracking but by and large every time I set up I have tracking.

The C8 you mentioned is old so it would be hard to get parts if there is an electronic failure. But you are correct that you can dismount it and put it on another mount.

The see star pictures would not be as good as the ones you see online, not by a long shot. You would have the satisfaction of saying aha I pointed the telescope and took this picture myself. You could set it up in the backyard and go inside to watch TV and fiddle with it from your phone. I would vote no but I am old and out of date.

In modern C8 would likely outperform the old one that you have. But it might not be terribly noticeable. It's just that with time the coatings can deteriorate on the mirrors. That is also true of newtonians.

500 bucks for an old C8 is a reasonable deal if the mount is working. It gets you into the game and if you become really interested then you will get a better idea about how you want to upgrade.

I actually like all of my scopes but the C8 gets a lot of use. Typically I mount a 92 mm refractor on top.

There is much to be said for an 8 or 10-in Newtonian. They are the standard recommendation. Not what I would go with but certainly not a wrong choice.

The main difficulty of an SCT and for that matter of a refractor is dew.

Greg N

Edited by gnowellsct, 02 February 2025 - 10:53 AM.

[vtornado]

Well the scope looks clean and cared for.   Fork mounts are heavy.   I don't know if you can keep this assembled in your garage and just roll it out or not.

[Dave Mitsky]

Discussing astrophotography is prohibited in this forum, but I will say that an 8" SCT is not the best choice for imaging for a novice.  A small ED or apochromatic refractor and a very beefy equatorial mount are a far better option.

[Mike Q]

Hi,
I am looking to get a telescope. I have never owned one and this will be my first. I want it for mostly viewing (as many objects as feasible) and maybe down the line hook it up with my DSLR for some astrophotography.

Would any of the following be a good choice to introduce astronomy to my kids ( ages 6 and 3) and family? Will mostly be using it from my backyard.

I am in California, and want or keep the initial investment close to $500.

Here are the few choices I have - for both the used items below, I can see them in person and verify if they are clean.


1. Used Celestron C8 ultima with fork mount and PEC hand controls- $450
2. New Explore Scientific first light Dobsonian 8 inch - $500
3. Used Celestron Nexstar 6SE - $600

Which of the 3 would be a good buy for my situation?

Appreciate your help with this!

Before you do anything find a astro club.  See what they have and what works for you and your situation.  Then you will know what scope to get and possibly even what accessories you will want to get with it.

[Pierre C]

For a family on a budget, I would suggest the new ES 8" Dobsonian telescope. It is a good package for getting you and your family started.

 

I worry that the used 1990's 8-inch Ultima might not work as expected and may cost you much more time and money to get it to a workable state. Also, the dual fork mount on the Ultima may make it much heavier overall than the Dobsonian.

Edited by Pierre C, 03 February 2025 - 12:27 AM.

[JOEinCO]

Here are the few choices I have - for both the used items below, I can see them in person and verify if they are clean.

1. Used Celestron C8 ultima with fork mount and PEC hand controls- $450
2. New Explore Scientific first light Dobsonian 8 inch - $500
3. Used Celestron Nexstar 6SE - $600

 

Why did the 6SE get eliminated from your hunt? 

 

My vote goes for that. Reliable mount - not a dinosaur like the C8 you showed us. Shorter focal length on the C6, so wider views are possible. Lightweight and easy to carry out and set up. Get the 6SE.  

[Russell Swan]

Thanks for all your replies.

I am considering still to either get the C8 ultima or the ES 8 inch dobsonian. Here are my thoughts for the scopes.

C8
Really good scope.
Once, polar aligned does have decent tracking which should be good enough (for the planets at least).
If needed can be deforked and mounted onto a more modern mount.

Dobsonian
Obviously simpler to use but lacks tracking and to add any amount of tracking is not feasible. Also, it may be more cumbersome to use.

Smart telescope - it seems very good idea but wouldn't that be a similar experience as watching videos and pictures already available online?

I am more inclined to get the C8 but will really appreciate your inputs on this.

Thanks a ton!

Given those choices, if it were me and at those prices,  I would go with the C8 ultima. This would be a long term investment, large enough aperture and able to be deforked later onto a solid, modern go-to mount. That’s what I did with my 1984 Super C8. 
 

However, as is, you would have what was once considered a high end scope on a solid base. 
8” SCTs  like this one are general purpose scopes. You may never feel the need for more. Well, you will but you will have a very good all-rounder to start. Your kids are way too young to use it however, but frankly that’s true of the other 2 choices as well. You will have to set them up for more than a few years. They are big boy scopes. The C8 has the steepest learning curve, but for my money potentially the best scope of the three. Discounting the three, you may be better off with something smaller and more simple to learn with. 
 

Edited by Russell Swan, 03 February 2025 - 09:01 AM.

[SeattleScott]

Given those choices, if it were me and at those prices, I would go with the C8 ultima. This would be a long term investment, large enough aperture and able to be deforked later onto a solid, modern go-to mount. That’s what I did with my 1984 Super C8.

However, as is, you would have what was once considered a high end scope on a solid base.
8” SCTs like this one are general purpose scopes. You may never feel the need for more. Well, you will but you will have a very good all-rounder to start. Your kids are way too young to use it however, but frankly that’s true of the other 2 choices as well. You will have to set them up for more than a few years. They are big boy scopes. The C8 has the steepest learning curve, but for my money potentially the best scope of the three. Discounting the three, you may be better off with something smaller and more simple to learn with.

Noticeably the best for now, but what if the mirror coating starts failing in a few years?

The old coatings were about 88% reflectivity and didn’t last as long. The new coating is about 95%. That’s 7% brighter views, times two because of two mirrors. So around 14%. And that’s if the 30 year old scope was brand new. Realistically it has probably lost another 10-20% reflectivity. Now even if the reflectivity is 35% lower, the light grasp is around 75% higher, so it is still coming out ahead. Just old coatings could be eating up half the light grasp advantage. And the coating could fail to the point where it only provides views as bright as a C6 in maybe ten years, five years, 20 years, who knows? A new C6 should last decades. There are a lot of variables, largely around climate and storage. But I generally think of an SCT as having a 50 year life (assuming someone doesn’t have mirrors recoated). This Ultima probably has some life left, but it is probably on the downward slope. I don’t necessarily see it as a long term value.