10 replies to this topic

[rlmxracer]

I got photobombed by a satellite 🛰️ last night when I was over an hour into imaging HH nebula IC 434. I thought the software automatically rejected bad frames while live stacking. This was the result on only my 3rd night with my new 533MC camera running on an AIR mini. Is there a setting for the rate of rejection in the ASIair app? Thanks. 

[Maximumron]

I run the same 545mc camera with a mini. That would be great if it deleted bad frames automatically. I'm not aware of that feature although I do know some capture software like Sharpcap does do this. All I do currently is go to the fold, review frames and delete the bad one. I also set the run time over what I'm shooting for so that I can add the frame(s) back in at the end of the session if i want.

Not the most sophisticated process but it works 

[randallpatrickc]

Same here. I think the point of issue is that the increasing number and size of satellites will severely affect the quality of our EAA sessions. I ASIAir stacked about 50 30sec frames of Orion using Hyperstar C9.25 and ASI533 - as the stack progressed the trails did become less prominent but very irritating. Amateur astronomy v Musk? Forget it.

 

Not such an issue when post processing as can manually drop frames but still a pain.

Edited by randallpatrickc, 03 February 2025 - 02:53 PM.

[rlmxracer]

This is the answer Google gave me:

To make your ASIAir reject bad frames during live stacking, you can utilize its built-in frame rejection features by adjusting the "Frame Ignore Threshold" setting within the live stacking parameters, which allows the ASIAir to automatically discard frames that deviate significantly from the average quality based on factors like star density, brightness, or excessive noise, essentially filtering out poor quality images captured during live stacking sessions.
Key points to remember:
Access the setting:
Navigate to the live stacking mode on your ASIAir app, then access the settings panel to find the "Frame Ignore Threshold" option.
Adjusting the threshold:
Higher value: More sensitive to rejecting frames with even slight deviations from the average quality.
Lower value: Less sensitive, potentially allowing more frames to be included even if they are slightly subpar.

 

I cant find the "Frame Ignore Threshold" anywhere in the app. I am wondering if maybe that was an older version of the app. I thought that was the point of live stacking that the user could control the % of frame rejection. 

Edited by rlmxracer, 03 February 2025 - 02:56 PM.

[triplemon]

As usual with AI - the answer sounds plauasible, but upon closer inspection is utterly nonsense. A brainfart, a snapsidee.

 

So yes, hypothetically, if the software would share your particular criteria what is a "bad" frame, it could reject it. Hey, it even explains what is "bad": Wrong brightness (exposure going wrong, flashlight shinning into camea etc), lots of stars missing (like defcoused, shaking or significant drift), then sure, that is obviously "bad". And can be told easily by simple means. Like the average of all pixels is very different, if .jpg compressed, file size is also a good indicator of sharpness.

 

But, dear artificial unintelligent, a single satellite trail does none of that, by a wide margin. It affects a very few pixels only. And actually, for noise reasons - you might even wish to keep all the rest of the frame, as its perfectly good data. Or in the future when nearly any given frame will have at least one sat in it - what you're gonna do then ?

 

So in the old days there was a simple answer known for that - sigma stacking. After the frames have been shifted to fit exactly ontop of each other, you don't add up blindly all frames, i.e. calculate the mean value for every pixel, but you rather look at the statitstics, for each pixel: Mean and deviation. For any "good" pixel the deviation will be small. If any one pixel is affected by a hot pixel, a satellite trail or any other changing content in it, its will be an outlier. If so - you ignore that one pixel from that frame and rather go by the mean for the remaining pxiels, only.

 

This is a pretty standard technique, its used for hot pixel elimination, make dithering work, removing star trails when tracking moving comets etc etc. If ASAIR has this "old school" method, this should do the trick. It can work well with as little as 5 frames to be stacked.

Edited by triplemon, 03 February 2025 - 05:15 PM.

[mgCatskills]

This is the answer Google gave me:

To make your ASIAir reject bad frames during live stacking, you can utilize its built-in frame rejection features by adjusting the "Frame Ignore Threshold" setting within the live stacking parameters, which allows the ASIAir to automatically discard frames that deviate significantly from the average quality based on factors like star density, brightness, or excessive noise, essentially filtering out poor quality images captured during live stacking sessions.
Key points to remember:
Access the setting:
Navigate to the live stacking mode on your ASIAir app, then access the settings panel to find the "Frame Ignore Threshold" option.
Adjusting the threshold:
Higher value: More sensitive to rejecting frames with even slight deviations from the average quality.
Lower value: Less sensitive, potentially allowing more frames to be included even if they are slightly subpar.

 

I cant find the "Frame Ignore Threshold" anywhere in the app. I am wondering if maybe that was an older version of the app. I thought that was the point of live stacking that the user could control the % of frame rejection. 

+1 on Triplemon's comment.  You're a victim of a LLM's fundamental stupidity.  I did a Google Search on: 

 

["Frame Ignore Threshold" asiair]

 

Surrounding a phrase in quotes requires Google to search for that precise phrase.  It it was a real feature it should have been findable in a context with asiair.  It came up with nothing.

 

AI can be very useful. But it sometimes conflates phrases it thinks should go together, just because.

Edited by mgCatskills, 03 February 2025 - 04:35 PM.

[Maximumron]

Same here. I think the point of issue is that the increasing number and size of satellites will severely affect the quality of our EAA sessions. I ASIAir stacked about 50 30sec frames of Orion using Hyperstar C9.25 and ASI533 - as the stack progressed the trails did become less prominent but very irritating. Amateur astronomy v Musk? Forget it.

 

Not such an issue when post processing as can manually drop frames but still a pain.

Like you, I run mostly EAA. I Have the luxury to sit inside, watch a little t.v. and monitor the progression of my session. When I do see a bad trail or set of trials I just go to the folder and clean it up right then and there. I could wait until the session is complete but dont want to trudge through all that data.

But if I posted through Siril, I'm guessing the bad frames, or the sat trails would be cleaned out.

[rlmxracer]

Like you, I run mostly EAA. I Have the luxury to sit inside, watch a little t.v. and monitor the progression of my session. When I do see a bad trail or set of trials I just go to the folder and clean it up right then and there. I could wait until the session is complete but dont want to trudge through all that data.

But if I posted through Siril, I'm guessing the bad frames, or the sat trails would be cleaned out.

I don't think Asiair allows that. There is an option to save every frame of the stack. I bet that has to be turned on in order to edit/delete individual frames. The way it's set now it just stacks all the frames apparently. 

Edited by rlmxracer, 03 February 2025 - 07:33 PM.

[BrentKnight]

Moderator Warning:

 

Restacking sub frames outside of the initial session is considered post-processing on the Cloudy Nights EAA forum.  Any images that have been post-processed or that have total exposures times over the 60 minute limit must be posted to the forum as a link and not as an in-message image.  These linked images should be included for comparison with the saved as seen image that is posted in-message.

 

In addition, all images posted to the forum must have a caption that specifies the total exposure time and the name of the object (at minimum).

 

The rules for the Cloudy Nights EAA forum can be read here.

[rlmxracer]

Hopefully this comment wont violate the TOS. I did an experiment with my ASIair to see if you can edit individual frames live real time while live stacking. If you select "save all frames" when you are setting up your live stacking plan you can look at and delete if bad as soon as the image uploads. This should solve the problem I had with the random bad frame from a satellite or plane flying through the image.

[RodgerDodger008]

I am enjoying this discussion since it confirms for me EAA with Sharpcap on Mini PC is still far better than using a asi air for the same purpose.

Nothing against asi air, if I ever do AP in the future with overnight automation required the air is probably what I would use.