31 replies to this topic

[Ric Whatley]

I believe I have a Moonfish. It was described as Meade eyepiece but when I looked at one of the pictures, I knew something was off. I read about the Moonfish 32mm Wide Angle a couple of years ago but didn't think I'd ever see one. It's definitely not a Meade. It's taller, the eye lens is larger, the AFOV is larger, and the f stop is larger. Does anyone know anything about them? Can anyone tell me the approximate value of this one. There are minor scratches on the barrel but no marks on the body and the glass and coatings look great. Here are some pictures of it on the right and my Meade SWA 32mm  on the left. The one on the right doesn't have Meade, Super, or Multi-coated on it.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=OuwsMOaHV60

 

here is another picture of the eyepiece that I have.

 

https://www.irishast...yepiece?start=6

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Edited by Ric Whatley, 05 February 2025 - 08:01 PM.

[SeattleScott]

Very interesting, sure looks like a Meade, but different than your Meade.

If it is a Moonfish, I had never heard of it, and a quick search yielded one review without pictures from someone who liked its performance in a SCT, but also had no experience with premium brands. So from what I can tell this is practically a complete unknown. I think the value will largely come down to your assessment of it. Put it in a couple scopes of different F ratio and see how it does. Given the near non-existent information on it, your options would seem to be unload it cheap because people aren’t going to pay much when they don’t know what they are getting, or put it through some tests and provide an assessment of how it performs. Personally, I wouldn’t pay more than $50 without more information. The one review I found didn’t even have a picture, so no idea if it really is a Moonfish. And if it is, the only information about its performance is that it does well enough in a SCT to impress a novice. That tells me nothing about how it performs at F4. But if you tried it out at F10 and F5 and provided your assessment, comparison to the Meade, it might be worth more.

[Starman1]

It sure looks like a Japanese-made Meade Series 4000 Super Wide Angle from the early '90s.

Definitely not a Moonfish/BW Optik eyepiece, which was 30mm and looked entirely different.

There were a few production runs of the Meade S4000 SWAs.  The first run had no rubber eyecup.

Later runs did.  I owned the first production version without an eyecup.

 

The main problem with this line was lateral astigmatism in faster f/ratio scopes <f/8 or so.

It was a copy of the Tele Vue Widefield 32mm, and performed similarly.

 

Here is more information on the S4000 SWAs:

https://www.astronom...php?topic=508.0

 

Moonfish:

https://www.worthpoi...piece-422983739

Edited by Starman1, 05 February 2025 - 01:00 PM.

[CrazyPanda]

It sure looks like a Japanese-made Meade Series 4000 Super Wide Angle from the early '90s.

Definitely not a Moonfish/BW Optik eyepiece, which was 30mm and looked entirely different.

There were a few production runs of the Meade S4000 SWAs.  The first run had no rubber eyecup.

Later runs did.  I owned the first production version without an eyecup.

 

The main problem with this line was lateral astigmatism in faster f/ratio scopes <f/8 or so.

It was a copy of the Tele Vue Widefield 32mm, and performed similarly.

 

Here is more information on the S4000 SWAs:

https://www.astronom...php?topic=508.0

 

Moonfish:

https://www.worthpoi...piece-422983739

Seems there were some variations of the Moonfish styling:

* https://www.irishast...yepiece?start=6

* https://www.youtube....h?v=OuwsMOaHV60

Those seem identical to what OP has posted.

 

Strange that they look so similar to the Meade.

[Starman1]

Yes there were different versions of the Moonfish 30mm

However, it was never labeled Meade and never had yellow lettering.

Is this simply a misidentification of the eyepiece?

The Moonfish 30mm eyepiece was also sold as a BW Optik 30mm, Smart Astronomy, Knight Owl and 1rpd (Astrobuffet).

 

I tried one many years ago in an f/6.5 scope, and it was simply not good.

 

Moonfish versions of the 30mm:

https://stargazerslo...mm-help-needed/

https://www.worthpoi...piece-422983739

https://www.amazon.c...B09ZTQWQC5?th=1

https://www.cloudyni...-uwa/?p=3487493

 

**Reading more deeply, it seems the company that imported and sold eyepieces under the Moonfish name did import a line of 70° eyepieces, in 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, 25mm, and maybe 32mm.

and it is possible they private labeled the same eyepieces Meade had contracted after Meade had gone to China for their S5000 SWAs.

I found this note from the people at Moonfish:

Posted 10 November 2005 - 08:43 AM

The Ultrawide 30mm come from the same assembly line as the 1rpd, and they are nominally 80 degrees afov. The Moonfish version has the M49 camera thread cut into the top, plus the rubber eyecup to collect the rain water we have to put up with here in Europe.

The 70 degree versus 80 degree confusion arises often: The 30mm Superview eyepiece (a completely different eyepiece entirely, from the GSO factory) is about 70 degrees afov, and tends to edge perform better at less than f/6. The 30mm Ultrawide is happier at f/6 and upwards. Both are quality/cost bargains of some repute, and we just happen to sell both under our own brand. But hold them in your hand, and there's no mistaking the difference; the Ultrawide is built like a tank, and you'd regret dropping it on your foot, while the Superview feels much more like a standard 2" eyepiece.

Hope that helps,

Ric Capucho
Moonfish Group

 

So perhaps the 32mm is a GSO.  GSO did make some eyepieces for Meade at one time and has made private label eyepieces for many makers.

Edited by Starman1, 05 February 2025 - 03:09 PM.

[Ric Whatley]

Very interesting, sure looks like a Meade, but different than your Meade.

If it is a Moonfish, I had never heard of it, and a quick search yielded one review without pictures from someone who liked its performance in a SCT, but also had no experience with premium brands. So from what I can tell this is practically a complete unknown. I think the value will largely come down to your assessment of it. Put it in a couple scopes of different F ratio and see how it does. Given the near non-existent information on it, your options would seem to be unload it cheap because people aren’t going to pay much when they don’t know what they are getting, or put it through some tests and provide an assessment of how it performs. Personally, I wouldn’t pay more than $50 without more information. The one review I found didn’t even have a picture, so no idea if it really is a Moonfish. And if it is, the only information about its performance is that it does well enough in a SCT to impress a novice. That tells me nothing about how it performs at F4. But if you tried it out at F10 and F5 and provided your assessment, comparison to the Meade, it might be worth more.

That is my Meade 4000 SWA 32mm next to it. If you look closely at the EP in this you tube review, it is the eyepiece that I have.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=OuwsMOaHV60

[Ric Whatley]

Yes there were different versions of the Moonfish 30mm

However, it was never labeled Meade and never had yellow lettering.

Is this simply a misidentification of the eyepiece?

The Moonfish 30mm eyepiece was also sold as a BW Optik 30mm, Smart Astronomy, Knight Owl and 1rpd (Astrobuffet).

 

I tried one many years ago in an f/6.5 scope, and it was simply not good.

 

Moonfish versions of the 30mm:

https://stargazerslo...mm-help-needed/

https://www.worthpoi...piece-422983739

https://www.amazon.c...B09ZTQWQC5?th=1

https://www.cloudyni...-uwa/?p=3487493

 

**Reading more deeply, it seems the company that imported and sold eyepieces under the Moonfish name did import a line of 70° eyepieces, in 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, 25mm, and maybe 32mm.

and it is possible they private labeled the same eyepieces Meade had contracted after Meade had gone to China for their S5000 SWAs.

I found this note from the people at Moonfish:

Posted 10 November 2005 - 08:43 AM

The Ultrawide 30mm come from the same assembly line as the 1rpd, and they are nominally 80 degrees afov. The Moonfish version has the M49 camera thread cut into the top, plus the rubber eyecup to collect the rain water we have to put up with here in Europe.

The 70 degree versus 80 degree confusion arises often: The 30mm Superview eyepiece (a completely different eyepiece entirely, from the GSO factory) is about 70 degrees afov, and tends to edge perform better at less than f/6. The 30mm Ultrawide is happier at f/6 and upwards. Both are quality/cost bargains of some repute, and we just happen to sell both under our own brand. But hold them in your hand, and there's no mistaking the difference; the Ultrawide is built like a tank, and you'd regret dropping it on your foot, while the Superview feels much more like a standard 2" eyepiece.

Hope that helps,

Ric Capucho
Moonfish Group

 

So perhaps the 32mm is a GSO.  GSO did make some eyepieces for Meade at one time and has made private label eyepieces for many makers.

That is my Meade 4000 SWA 32mm next to it. If you look closely at the EP in this you tube review, it is the eyepiece that I have. The wording on the EP is the same. I don't believe 80° but the AFOV is definitely larger than the meade.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=OuwsMOaHV60

[Ric Whatley]

Seems there were some variations of the Moonfish styling:

* https://www.irishast...yepiece?start=6

* https://www.youtube....h?v=OuwsMOaHV60

Those seem identical to what OP has posted.

 

Strange that they look so similar to the Meade.

I had not seen the Irish federation page. That is the eyepiece that I have.

[Ric Whatley]

Here are the field stops and eye lenses.

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[Ric Whatley]

It's easier to see how much shorter the Meade's body is when they're upside down or side by side.

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[SeattleScott]

Ok so we know it exists. But how does it perform? That’s what is unknown. I wouldn’t pay much not knowing anything about the performance. Other than some novice with a SCT liked it.

[Ric Whatley]

It sure looks like a Japanese-made Meade Series 4000 Super Wide Angle from the early '90s.

Definitely not a Moonfish/BW Optik eyepiece, which was 30mm and looked entirely different.

There were a few production runs of the Meade S4000 SWAs.  The first run had no rubber eyecup.

Later runs did.  I owned the first production version without an eyecup.

 

The main problem with this line was lateral astigmatism in faster f/ratio scopes <f/8 or so.

It was a copy of the Tele Vue Widefield 32mm, and performed similarly.

 

Here is more information on the S4000 SWAs:

https://www.astronom...php?topic=508.0

 

Moonfish:

https://www.worthpoi...piece-422983739

I can understand why they described it as a Meade. Only a Meade fan like me could just look at it and know it's not. Except for the SWA 20mm unicorn, I have all of the Meade 4000s. Smoothies, (2 complete sets) the later Japan made with eyecups and the QX line. All of them, all but the unicorn. I didn't bother with the China and Taiwan made. This is absolutely not a Meade. If you were holding it I'm certain you would agree. This isn't a Moonfish/BW 30mm, but there is every indication that it is a Moonfish Wide Angle 32mm.

[Ric Whatley]

Ok so we know it exists. But how does it perform? That’s what is unknown. I wouldn’t pay much not knowing anything about the performance. Other than some novice with a SCT liked it.

delivered yesterday. cloudy last night. cloudy tonight.......    I'm curious myself. I have fast scopes except for the 6" f12 I'm building. My couple of 1.25" ETXs aren't gonna be any help. I've a KENKO SE 102 f5 with a 2" focuser but not here. My 25" f5 restoration isn't complete so I'll be testing it with a 10" f4.5 Meade starfinder. That ought to tell us something. On the positive note other hand, I only paid 37.50 plus shipping from Japan. Probably less than $50 in it. I'll never sell it but I'm puting a price list together of all my astro stuff for my wife so she knows what she has when I'm gone. I hope she doesn't see it anytime soon, I'd like to live a bit longer.

Edited by Ric Whatley, 05 February 2025 - 08:46 PM.

[Jon Isaacs]

That is my Meade 4000 SWA 32mm next to it. If you look closely at the EP in this you tube review, it is the eyepiece that I have. The wording on the EP is the same. I don't believe 80° but the AFOV is definitely larger than the meade.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=OuwsMOaHV60

 

How much does the Moonfish 32mm weigh.  To my eye it looks like the generic 32mm 70 degree eyepiece sold by Orion as the 32mm Q-70 and others at the 32mm 70 degree. .  I weighed the Q-70, It weighed 352 grams. 

 

As Don said, the Meade Series 4000's were more or less copies of the TeleVue Wide Fields.  The TV wide fields were 65 degree AFOV eyepieces with about 10%  distortion, the field stop was 33 mm..  The Q-70s were/are 70 degree eyepieces. The 32mm Q-70 has a 40mm field stop. In your field stop photo, the eyepiece on the left has a much smaller field stop. I believe that would be the Meade. 

 

Jon

Edited by Jon Isaacs, 06 February 2025 - 09:32 AM.

[Ric Whatley]

How much does the Moonfish 32mm weigh.  To my eye it looks like the generic 32mm 70 degree eyepiece sold by Orion as the 32mm Q-70 and others at the 32mm 70 degree. .  I weighed the Q-70, It weighed 352 grams. 

 

As Don said, the Meade Series 4000's were more or less copies of the TeleVue Wide Fields.  The TV wide fields were 65 degree AFOV eyepieces with about 10%  distortion, the field stop was 33 mm..  The Q-70s were/are 70 degree eyepieces. The 32mm Q-70 has a 40mm field stop. In your field stop photo, the eyepiece on the left has a much smaller field stop. I believe that would be the Meade. 

 

Jon

Yes, the Meade is on the left in these pictures. I got out my Meade QX EPs (30 and 36) but they're not as close in apperance as the SWA 32. I'm not sure if I have anything that will accurately weigh it but I'll see what I can find and try it this weekend. Weather outlook for this weekend isn't good either so may not be able to do a star test for distortion. I wasn't planning to take it apart but I will unscrew the barrel to measure the field stop. I have a nice spot beam projector that I can use for the flashlight test for AFOV. If I get a little time this weekend I'll set up a test bench in my shop. I'll get an accurate AFOV. I did measure the length of the body. I didn't write it down but I think it was right at 70mm long and I think the Meade was 62mm without removing the eyecups. My time's booked up through Saturday but maybe we'll have more stats in a few days.

Let's see how this weekend goes.

Ric

[JAC51]

How much does the Moonfish 32mm weigh.  To my eye it looks like the generic 32mm 70 degree eyepiece sold by Orion as the 32mm Q-70 and others at the 32mm 70 degree. .  I weighed the Q-70, It weighed 352 grams. 

 

 

 

Jon

510g I have just put mine on the scales.

[Ric Whatley]

 weight is 412.2g

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[Ric Whatley]

lens configuration is 6 elements in 3 groups, from the eye lens down its a single lens, spacer, a cemented pair, spacer, and the bottom 3 are a cemented pair then the field lens . I believe the Q70s are 5 lens.

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Edited by Ric Whatley, 07 February 2025 - 09:50 AM.

[Ric Whatley]

body length is 69mm and the outside diameter is 55mm.

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[Ric Whatley]

field stop is 40mm and the opening for the eye lens is 35mm

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Edited by Ric Whatley, 07 February 2025 - 09:19 AM.

[JAC51]

 Mine looks like the older? Moonfish/BW? version if it even is a heavier version of the same eyepiece?

 

I've had mine since about 2003/4 and it came in a large bolt case. In the UK I think of them **** being second hand £50 to £60 eyepieces.

 

 

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[Ric Whatley]

This is a fun project. I built this as a reticle projector decades ago but it’s a fantastic tool for measuring apparent FOV of an eyepiece. I’m measuring this odd new eyepiece every way that I can think of.

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[Ric Whatley]

After the test my calculations put it at 70.84°. I’m sure my measurements were a tiny bit off and it was actually designed as a 70° eyepiece.

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[Ric Whatley]

lens configuration is 6 elements in 3 groups, from the eye lens down its a single lens, spacer, a cemented pair, spacer, and the bottom 3 are a cemented pair then the field lens . I believe the Q70s are 5 lens.

The Meade super wides are 6 element but in a little different layout.

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[Starman1]

When you measure an eyepiece that way and you calculate apparent field from a vertex point of the triangle, the starting point is at the exit pupil of the eyepiece,

so the distance from the top surface of the eyepiece to the exit pupil has to be subtracted from the eyepiece-to-wall distance.

So if you got 70.84° from the top of the eyepiece, that means the actual apparent field was wider because the point of the triangle was several mm out from the eyepiece's eye lens.

You could find that point by holding a surface up to the light by the eyepiece and moving it back until the light was the smallest diameter.

That is the point you measure from.

This illustrates what I mean:

https://www.cloudyni...view/?p=7958975