14 replies to this topic

[robjme]

I am sitting next to a new AT130EDX that arrived a few days ago, serial number 0023. When I made the purchase, I thought I would try it on my CG4 mount for a while, giving my wife time to get over the scope purchase. I did not investigate the specs when I made this decision. When it arrived, the scope was bigger and heavier than I had imagined. I realized right away the CG4 was not going to cut it and maybe cause an accident. How do you think the 130 would behave on a CG4? Well, I'm not going to try it.

 

I found the SW AZ/EQ-5 online for a good price and jumped on it. It has a payload of thirty pounds, can carry dual scopes, and works well in alt/az, according to their ads. It looked like a perfect fit. Then I began to research all mounts more carefully and found out that a twenty-pound OTA plus everything else may be too much for this size mount. I don't understand why all mounts are rated with a payload that exceeds the actual, usable payload. WT#*! This is deliberate misinformation!

 

My scope is patiently waiting in its case for the new mount that is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I will take them out sometime this weekend. How do you think the mount will perform? If it doesn't work out, then I will sell it and get a larger mount. I do plan on building an observatory this year, so I will sell the tripod then. Most of the complaints about this mount seem to involve the tripod or the backlash adjustments. 

 

TY,

Rob

Edited by robjme, 06 February 2025 - 11:58 PM.

[SoCalPaul]

Congratulations on the new scope!

 

In the absence of standards or precise definitions, I think manufacturers sometimes stretch the truth to get an edge over their rivals.

 

Sure, I can mount my 30-pound C11 OTA on an AZ/EQ5 and observe at low magnifications, maybe. But it might be an exercise in frustration and futility to attempt to focus at high magnifications.

 

On the other hand, my iOptron iEQ45 has a rated capacity of 45 lbs. It holds the C11 just fine. But is it rock solid with ZERO vibrations when focusing at high magnifications? Nope. Fortunately, they dampen out quickly, but do I wish it was even more solid? Sure, of course.

 

I have also found that the tripod contributes a lot to overall system stability. I have the iEQ45 on a CGEM tripod with a TPI leg spreader. Unfortunately, TPI is no longer in business, but there are many ways to DIY these.

 

My experiences with iOptron mounts have been good, especially their capacity-to-weight ratios. I have owned a Minitower Pro, a ZEQ25gt and now the iEQ45. All were excellent performers and seemed to handle iOptron's claimed capacity for visual. I have gotten used to their GoToNova system and am comfortable with it. (I never liked the Synscan system when I owned an AZ/EQ6, which I eventually sold.)

 

I guess it's caveat emptor. Fortunately, we have a large community of highly experienced observers who are willing to share their experiences, so we can research and learn.

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[Cliff Hipsher]

Send it back and get an iOptron GEM45. Add a pier extension, extra counterweights, a Losmandy D Plate (I don't trust Vixen dovetail bars), William Optics Handle bar, 60mm f4 guide scope, guide camera, main camera, electronic filter wheel, electronic auto focus motor, 2 12 volt dew heaters, a suitable mount control computer (I use an ASI Air Plus) and a 12VDC 10 Amp power supply.My fully loaded AT130EDT rig is just shy of 30 pounds which is 2/3 of the GEM45 weight capacity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[robjme]

Hey Cliff,

That is a first class setup indeed. I am envious.

The boxes for the mount arrived today. I considered your advice, but I can't wait to try out the new scope. So, I have decided to open the boxes and try it out. I don't know what to expect.

I suspect I will likely find a used mount with a larger payload one day, but I can't spend more money on astro equipment this month. Also, I would like to try this mount on a solid pier when my observatory is done and see how it performs then.

[Cliff Hipsher]

Hey Cliff,

That is a first class setup indeed. I am envious.

The boxes for the mount arrived today. I considered your advice, but I can't wait to try out the new scope. So, I have decided to open the boxes and try it out. I don't know what to expect.

I suspect I will likely find a used mount with a larger payload one day, but I can't spend more money on astro equipment this month. Also, I would like to try this mount on a solid pier when my observatory is done and see how it performs then.

Thanks.

 

It took me a while to get is all sorted out but it is well worth the effort and expense.

 

Enjoy your new treasure.

[Renae Gage]

As a rule of thumb, I recommend never spending more on a telescope than on the mount that carries it.

[robjme]

Yesterday, I unboxed and set up the AZ EQ5 pier mount in my garage and then I mounted the AT 130-EDX on top. I didn't have a 12v power source, so the electronics will have to wait for another day. I added a 2" diagonal and my heaviest eyepiece: an old TV 40mm.

 

The mount worked just fine. I had it set up in alt/az mode. The rotation of the axis's was smooth and easy. The tripod and mount were solid. I was happy to see the RA and Dec locks worked perfectly, allowing a wide space for partial lockdown. By this I mean I was able to have enough friction to hold the scope steady, while still being able to move the scope with one finger. The sort of experience you get from Teflon bearings. 

 

The weather was cold, windy and raining yesterday, so I didn't go outside with the scope. I opened the back door of the garage and looked at the treetops, the mountains and a neighbor's roof line at 23 X. I tapped on the side of the scope and found that after two seconds the scope was once again steady. 

 

I do intend to use my Nikon D800 SLR with this scope. This will be the heaviest payload I expect the mount to manage, we'll see. Windy conditions present a challenge to mounts. I will test my setup under windy conditions for the final test. Luckily, this scope is smaller than many and may not be as affected by the wind as larger scopes are. My 12" SCT with its big dew shield was sensitive to the wind. Of course, I don't like observing when it's windy. So, unless there is a special event, I will usually end the session when the wind picks up.

 

So, what is the actual, useable payload for the AZ EQ5? I don't really know. I suppose it depends on the scope and other variable conditions. I must take back the comments I made about manufacturers in my original post. I now know that under favorable conditions (no wind inside my garage) and at low magnification, the mount managed a payload very close to the manufacturer's stated limit. I do not know yet, how the electronics and motors will function with this payload, especially under higher magnifications. I will find out and report back.

Edited by robjme, 09 February 2025 - 11:52 AM.

[PIEJr]

Congratulations on your new EDX telescope!

 

I have the AT130EDT and love what it is doing for me.

Mine had a base weight of 19 pounds, IIRC.

I knew my imaging train would add quite a bit onto it.

I'm pretty sure I'm done, finally, adding things to it and estimate the weight to be at ~40 pounds from the clamp up. (From the clamp up, inclusively, is your load. Dovetail and all.)

But I've added some things many would not. Like dual 14" Losmandy dovetails.

 

I wanted to spread the clamps laterally along the tube. I began with my 7" I got for my 80mm refractor.

But I got a 14" to stretch out the support for the big scope. Later, I decided to bump up my guiding scope to a 60mm to go with my ASI290MM camera I chose for guiding.

And I decided to get a second 14" dovetail for on top of the rings to make a solid top and bottom from the clamp up, with the Svbony 60mm guide scope over the centerline of the 130mm telescope.

So, for adding a lot of support to make my imaging equipment stiffer and more stable I added some poundage.

And a rotator, at a couple of pounds as well.

 

What I got for all that is dead solid tracking and guiding, and pinpoint stars in both scopes.

Yeah, it's a heavy booger that I'm reluctant to dismount and mount. But I don't need to anyway, I leave mine setup for almost daily use. And it remains Polar Aligned for month after month.

 

Then,

 

And now,

 

 

But the point being, when you get to imaging, the weight can gain quickly.

Nobody ever said their mount was too big for imaging. But many have had too small of a mount to image well.

Choose wisely.

Edited by PIEJr, 09 February 2025 - 05:52 PM.

[Renae Gage]

Yesterday, I unboxed and set up the AZ EQ5 pier mount in my garage and then I mounted the AT 130-EDX on top. I didn't have a 12v power source, so the electronics will have to wait for another day. I added a 2" diagonal and my heaviest eyepiece: an old TV 40mm.

 

The mount worked just fine. I had it set up in alt/az mode. The rotation of the axis's was smooth and easy. The tripod and mount were solid. I was happy to see the RA and Dec locks worked perfectly, allowing a wide space for partial lockdown. By this I mean I was able to have enough friction to hold the scope steady, while still being able to move the scope with one finger. The sort of experience you get from Teflon bearings. 

 

The weather was cold, windy and raining yesterday, so I didn't go outside with the scope. I opened the back door of the garage and looked at the treetops, the mountains and a neighbor's roof line at 23 X. I tapped on the side of the scope and found that after two seconds the scope was once again steady. 

 

I do intend to use my Nikon D800 SLR with this scope. This will be the heaviest payload I expect the mount to manage, we'll see. Windy conditions present a challenge to mounts. I will test my setup under windy conditions for the final test. Luckily, this scope is smaller than many and may not be as affected by the wind as larger scopes are. My 12" SCT with its big dew shield was sensitive to the wind. Of course, I don't like observing when it's windy. So, unless there is a special event, I will usually end the session when the wind picks up.

 

So, what is the actual, useable payload for the AZ EQ5? I don't really know. I suppose it depends on the scope and other variable conditions. I must take back the comments I made about manufacturers in my original post. I now know that under favorable conditions (no wind inside my garage) and at low magnification, the mount managed a payload very close to the manufacturer's stated limit. I do not know yet, how the electronics and motors will function with this payload, especially under higher magnifications. I will find out and report back.

 

 

It is certainly your choice, but that mount is barely going to handle the scope for visual, if that.  There is no more reliable path to frustration in imaging, which you said you plan to do, than undermounting.  Get some more feedback from people who image.  You'll hear consensus on this point.

[robjme]

Yes, Renae I am sure that you are correct. But to be clear, I never intended to under mount my scope. I'll admit that I was attracted to the AZ/EQ5 price, and I did make a hasty decision to purchase it without more information. But as I said in the OP, it seemed like a good fit to someone who didn't know better. I made the decision to buy now and research later which was a mistake.

I now know the SW claim of a thirty pound payload for this mount is an exaggeration, an over-statement. Just like the false claims of usable magnifications made by manufacturers of department store scopes. As SoCalPaul correctly states above, this is a sales ploy. And as Cliff correctly states above, I should have sent it back.

Since my OP, I have had the opportunity to play with this mount in my covered carport. Maybe I will start another thread about the good and bad qualities I noticed during my preliminary tryout.

Fortunately, I can sell the mount for not much less than what I paid for it, and then I will move on to a larger mount. I like the alt/az mode for visual use, so the AZ/EQ6 seems like a good fit for me. We have a week of bad weather here in Virginia, then I will try this mount for the first time under the night sky.

[Renae Gage]

I get why you would want AZ capability.  If I were doing visual astronomy, I would use an ALT-AZ mount exclusively.  However, if you are still committed to astrophotography, the EQ-6 is a MUCH better mount for that purpose than the AZ-EQ6.

 

Here's a thought:  pretty much all of the strain wave mounts are ALT-AZ capable, and make very serviceable photographic mounts.  Or, you could get a dedicated ALT-AZ mount and a field rotator for AP use.  The first pathway is much, much easier and has better options, but you could base your decision on percentage time of anticipated use.

 

If you're new to all of this, I'd recommend doing visual for a long time before going into AP.  By the time you do, it will be even easier to do then than it is now, and you'll have had a lot of enjoyable eyepiece time, which is not to be overlooked.

 

Personally, I went to AP when my advancing astigmatism started taking the joy out of visual, which I did for about 10-12 years.

[SoCalPaul]

Renae brings up some good points.

 

Visual observing and imaging are two very different experiences. As I see it (pun intended), visual observing is purely experiential, whereas imaging certainly has an experiential component but much of the focus is on creating a product.

 

The challenges with each are also extremely different. Assuming you want to learn the sky and locate targets manually, those can be rewarding skills as you learn and sharpen them. Learning to see objects, discern details, gauge size, describe the local field, and more, also present their own rewards and can be sharpened over time.

 

For imaging, I recall my focus being more on equipment and process challenges such as, determine what scope/camera combo will work well together and for the types of objects I want to image, pick a capable mount and master it, learn the acquisition application, master calibration frames and how to combine them, master auto-guiding, etc. And that's all just on the acquisition side of the equation. Post-processing is at least as complex and a very different set of skills, none of which are done under dark skies.

 

I would like to Echo Renae's suggestion, if you are relatively new, to start with visual, and for that, IMO you can't beat an alt-az mount. If you buy secondhand at reasonable market price, you should be able to sell it later for a good percentage of what you paid, if you want to upgrade to an imaging-capable equ mount.

 

You don't even need an alt-az mount with any sort of drive system or DSCs, if you want to do things the old-school way- learn the sky, find things via star charts (laptop based) and star-hopping, and spend time observing with your own eyes.

 

There are two options to incorporate electronics into an alt-az setup- DSCs or a driven (goto) mount. Keep in mind that an alt-az mount needs to align in order to track once a target is acquired, but you don't have to use the goto function. For example, my iEQ45 mount is in alt-az configuration. I have to align on 2 or more stars so that the mount knows how to track when pointed to a particular spot in the sky. I then use the directional buttons to slew to the various stars to hop to my target. By following this procedure, once I locate the target, the mount will keep it centered in my eyepiece for long periods of time. That frees me to spend time getting to know the object, see increasing amounts of detail, write detailed notes in my log (I dictate into my phone), etc.

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[robjme]

Here's a thought: pretty much all of the strain wave mounts are ALT-AZ capable, and make very serviceable photographic mounts.

 

I took your advice Renae and researched wave mounts last night. They look like the Wankel rotary engine inside. This is the mount for me. I'm going to sell my EQ/AZ5 and get one of those... but not this month. 

 

AP is not that important to me. I don't plan on adding any photo equipment, guiders, or any more technology to my setup. I will take one minute snap shots with my Nikon D800 DSLR and that's it. So I don't really need the equatorial mode, unless I want to take a two or three minute exposure. My guiding days are over. I started in AP back in the 1990's with a 35mm film camera. I would take a dozen mostly short exposure frames and process them in a small darkroom that I partitioned off in my garage. I would print any good ones with my enlarger all on the same night. It was great fun. My photos were primitive, but they were mine. And I did get a few good ones.

 

Now that I'm retired, I just want to sit in my backyard and observe more slowly and more deliberately than I have before. I bought a new 12" LX200 in 2002 and I would slew through dozens of objects in a night. It was great when I was entertaining others, but that doesn't appeal to me now.

 

As Paul stated so eloquently, "Learning to see objects, discern details, gauge size, describe the local field." Yes, I want to do more of that.

 

 

Sorry I don't know how to use quotes. I should learn that too!

 

Edited by robjme, 13 February 2025 - 11:00 PM.

[Renae Gage]

The spacious field of your new refractor will be much more conducive to patient observation than your old 12".  Congratulations.  One of my best scopes/mount systems ever was a TV-127 in a cradle mount with DSC's.  The DSC's were nice when I failed to accurately star hop, but even the slow drift of targets through the visual field was an interesting part of the mix--very perspective-inducing.

Let us know where you end up.

 

Kick the tires of this one too, if you're going the visual route.  Available with and without encoders, with and without motors.  Side-by-side alt-az viewing for two scopes.

 

https://rowanenginee...w-motion-shafts

[robjme]

Follow Up Story

 

What to expect from an under mounted scope? Well, now I know. There were two issues: one was how long the scope took to settle down after touching it, and the other issue was how it was affected by the wind. After two one-hour sessions, I decided this was not going to work and I ordered a new mount. The EqAz5 is for sale here in CN and other sites.

In post #13 from one month ago, I said I was going to get a wave mount. Later after much thought, I decided to order the EqAz6 with the heavier payload. I decided that a big part of the star gazing experience is the nostalgia of it. So, I like having an old fashioned mount like I've had for all of my adult life. Also, the EqAz6 had the best payload to price ratio for a mount the can do AZ as well as EQ mode.

 

I haven't yet taken the new mount out for a whole night of observing due to weather and other things. I'm looking forward to using it. And I'll be starting on my backyard observatory soon so the added weight of the mount will not be an issue for me.