16 replies to this topic

[danb35]

I recall seeing Cuiv's video about the ToupTek ATR2600C (in its RisingCam guise, IIRC), and one of the big selling points at the time was that it was considerably cheaper.  But that doesn't seem to be the case any more--the ToupTek lists at $1499 on their site, while the ASI2600MC lists for the same price on Agena Astro or astronomics.  Compared to my memory, the price on the ToupTek has gone up, and the price on the ZWO has gone down.  As long as I'm not using an ASIAir (which I'm not), is there a particular reason to prefer one over the other?  Or better yet, is there a more-budget option out there using the same sensor?

[Smalone]

I am very happy with the IMX571, I went with Player One Poseidon-C Pro, it has a larger full well depth and is currently on sale $1399. Any of them should be fine the differences are rather small.

[unimatrix0]

I recall seeing Cuiv's video about the ToupTek ATR2600C (in its RisingCam guise, IIRC), and one of the big selling points at the time was that it was considerably cheaper.  But that doesn't seem to be the case any more--the ToupTek lists at $1499 on their site, while the ASI2600MC lists for the same price on Agena Astro or astronomics.  Compared to my memory, the price on the ToupTek has gone up, and the price on the ZWO has gone down.  As long as I'm not using an ASIAir (which I'm not), is there a particular reason to prefer one over the other?  Or better yet, is there a more-budget option out there using the same sensor?

The price is only cheaper if you are outside of USA.  I never seen the Touptek or any of the other brands cheaper than the ZWO.   QHY did run a few discounts a few years ago, but you really have to look out and the savings is like maybe 50 or a 100 dollars. 

 

In other words, it's not that they are the same price as ZWO, but USA has more tariffs on them - I guess. and if that's true - and without going into politics- they will only gonna be more expensive since the us govt planning an additional 10% of tariffs on top of the tariffs already there. 

 

Also take example on the Astrostation which supposed to be a cheaper alternative to ZWO Asiair.  It's not, if you live in the USA. 

Edited by unimatrix0, 07 February 2025 - 08:40 PM.

[dx_ron]

When I bought my Touptek from Risingcam's aliexpress store (nearly 3 years ago), it was a good $600 cheaper than ZWO or QHY.

 

If I had to buy again, I'd still get a touptek (though probably Player One or OGMA), partly from (a possibly irrational) anti-ZWO bias, and partly because I am accomstomed to the touptek drivers.

[Silent_Light]

Over the moon with my OGMA AP26CC imx571

[bobzeq25]

I recall seeing Cuiv's video about the ToupTek ATR2600C (in its RisingCam guise, IIRC), and one of the big selling points at the time was that it was considerably cheaper.  But that doesn't seem to be the case any more--the ToupTek lists at $1499 on their site, while the ASI2600MC lists for the same price on Agena Astro or astronomics.  Compared to my memory, the price on the ToupTek has gone up, and the price on the ZWO has gone down.  As long as I'm not using an ASIAir (which I'm not), is there a particular reason to prefer one over the other?  Or better yet, is there a more-budget option out there using the same sensor?

Do you like Fords or Chevys? This is a similar deal.

I like going ZWO for two reasons. The user base is significantly larger, so I have more people to consult. They really try to be customer friendly, and, in my opinion, mostly succeed.

[danb35]

it's not that they are the same price as ZWO, but USA has more tariffs on them

Tariffs would affect prices in USA vs. other countries, but not ZWO vs. ToupTek vs. Player One vs. OGMA vs. Altair vs. whoever else--they're all made in China, so tariffs would affect them equally.

 

When I bought my Touptek from Risingcam's aliexpress store (nearly 3 years ago), it was a good $600 cheaper than ZWO or QHY.

I recall seeing the price delta even greater, but it looks like ZWO has dropped their prices (yay!) and ToupTek has raised theirs (boo!).  So price is no longer much of a discriminator--I'm seeing:

• ZWO: $1499
• TopTek: $1499
• OGMA: $1499
• Player One: $1399
• QHY: $1699 at Agena (on "closeout")
• Altair: £1000 ($1240 at today's rate).  It seems they do ship to .us for £45, but no idea what, if any, import duties I'd have to pay.

Altair looks like the price leader, and QHY's on the high end, but particularly if you leave QHY out of the mix, it's a pretty close race.

 

So I guess the question boils down to, if price isn't a major factor, what is?  They're all the same sensor, and as far as I've heard anyone say, produce identical images.  I haven't seen any mentions of differences in build quality.  I don't use an ASIAir, and don't anticipate that changing.  So what else might be relevant?

• Color
  • I'm being a little facetious in listing this first, but it's probably important to some.  I do like the purple of my Altair 533...
• Drivers
  • dx_ron mentioned this, and I think I've seen that ToupTek's drivers have an explicit switch for high conversion gain, while with ZWO it's implicit in the gain setting.
• Form factor
  • IIRC, the ToupTek is a little slimmer than the ZWO, which would be relevant if you're using something like a RASA.  I'm not at this point, but I guess I wouldn't rule out the possibility.
• Included accessories?
• ???

IOW, is it really just "buy whichever color you like better; there are no significant differences among them" (as I think Bob's suggesting)?

[ayadai]

Given that all things are equal, your best bet price-wise may be to wait for one to pop up here on the classifieds.

[bobzeq25]

Tariffs would affect prices in USA vs. other countries, but not ZWO vs. ToupTek vs. Player One vs. OGMA vs. Altair vs. whoever else--they're all made in China, so tariffs would affect them equally.
 
I recall seeing the price delta even greater, but it looks like ZWO has dropped their prices (yay!) and ToupTek has raised theirs (boo!).  So price is no longer much of a discriminator--I'm seeing:

• ZWO: $1499
• TopTek: $1499
• OGMA: $1499
• Player One: $1399
• QHY: $1699 at Agena (on "closeout")
• Altair: £1000 ($1240 at today's rate).  It seems they do ship to .us for £45, but no idea what, if any, import duties I'd have to pay.

Altair looks like the price leader, and QHY's on the high end, but particularly if you leave QHY out of the mix, it's a pretty close race.
 
So I guess the question boils down to, if price isn't a major factor, what is?  They're all the same sensor, and as far as I've heard anyone say, produce identical images.  I haven't seen any mentions of differences in build quality.  I don't use an ASIAir, and don't anticipate that changing.  So what else might be relevant?

• Color
  • I'm being a little facetious in listing this first, but it's probably important to some.  I do like the purple of my Altair 533...
• Drivers
  • dx_ron mentioned this, and I think I've seen that ToupTek's drivers have an explicit switch for high conversion gain, while with ZWO it's implicit in the gain setting.
• Form factor
  • IIRC, the ToupTek is a little slimmer than the ZWO, which would be relevant if you're using something like a RASA.  I'm not at this point, but I guess I wouldn't rule out the possibility.
• Included accessories?
• ???

IOW, is it really just "buy whichever color you like better; there are no significant differences among them" (as I think Bob's suggesting)?

Not at all. I listed two significant differences that are important to me. User base and cstomer service.

I have yet to see a convincing argument that another brand's cameras are _technically_ superior to ZWOs.

Edited by bobzeq25, 09 February 2025 - 01:10 AM.

[danb35]

Not at all. I listed two significant differences that are important to me. User base and cstomer service.

True--I was thinking more about differences among the cameras, and I'm not hearing any.  User base and customer service are valid issues.  But then you open the door to a variety of issues, including issues with the companies involved--I don't like, for example, that ZWO actively removes support for non-ZWO hardware (other than mounts--at least for the time being) from the ASIAir.  That hasn't stopped me from buying one of their guide cameras, but it's a fair point to consider.
 

[SteveL42]

Is "TopTek" supposed to be ToupTek?  I paid $1299 for my Risingcam 2 years ago, which is now $1499 in their store, and I have been happy with it.  The current price of the ToupTek color appears to be $1184 on AliExpress

 

I have my eye on the ToupTek mono camera, which is $1381 currently.  

[Zambiadarkskies]

Do I remember that one brand (maybe qhy?) used some sort of "industrial grade" version of the sensor? Which apparently brings possible longevity benefits.

[danb35]

Is "TopTek" supposed to be ToupTek?

Indeed it is; my bad for the typo.  Last I looked on Aliexpress, it was the same price (give or take a few bucks) as in their own store.
 

[ayadai]

Do I remember that one brand (maybe qhy?) used some sort of "industrial grade" version of the sensor? Which apparently brings possible longevity benefits.

The Moravian evidently uses it. This thread discusses the issue as well.

[danb35]

I should probably point out that I'm not particularly opposed to ZWO.  I don't like the way they limit the ASIAir, but recognize it's a nifty device that lots of people have found really helpful.  I don't like how Altair puts their drivers and software behind an owners-only login and has you download them from Dropbox.  I'd probably find things I don't like about ToupTek, QHY, and the rest.  So nobody's perfect, and it's a matter of weighing the pros/cons.

 

But it sounds like the technical pros and cons are fairly minimal, with the possible exception of that "industrial grade" sensor.  Instead they seem to mainly deal with secondary issues--user base, support, included accessories, price, compatibility, and various business decisions from the company.

 

I tend to be a little contrary, which causes me to lean against the dominant brand (currently ZWO).  That isn't a hard rule, but a tendency.  But too much of a niche product is a risk for the reasons Bob mentions.

[WildMarker]

I bought my ToupTek ATR2600C on AliExpress (from a well reviewed store) for US $1000.32 two months ago.  But yes, that same item is now listed at $1499. 

 

Nonetheless, also keep in mind that ToupTek's official store often bundles items.  Usually it is a guide cam and tilt adjuster, which I think add up to about a $200 value. 

[bobzeq25]

The brand limitations of the ASIAir do not keep me away from buying ZWO stuff, when I think it's the best choice. They do keep me away from buying an ASIAir. I don't want my data acquisition computer telling me which hardware and software I can and cannot use. I avoid Apple and Linux data acquisition computers for the same reason. So I use a Windows PC, which minds its own business. <smile>

Edited by bobzeq25, 11 February 2025 - 03:43 PM.