19 replies to this topic

[UP4014Fan]

I'm not sure if this belongs here or in another forum, but I ran into an issue the other night with my laptop acting as a remote PC.  This might help others have run into this issue.

 

The other night, I suddenly couldn't get into my laptop remotely from my office desktop machine.  Since it's cold out, I wasn't too eager to run outside over and over again to ensure that everything was working.  Since I was sending the images to my One Drive account so I could download them on the fly, as it were, I was at least assured that the computer was still up.  However, it was disappointing to find, when I went outside, that I lost about 25 minutes of light because my mount drifted slightly without my knowledge and the target was out of center between visits to the telescope.

The symptoms of not being to get into the laptop remotely were either a black screen in the remote session, the screen saver being displayed with no interaction with the power button, or the user name spinner being stuck.  

 

I went through the possible causes.  I had just installed a WiFi extension, an additional Google WiFi node, to improve the signal to the driveway.  I also suspected that the laptop processor was maxed out, although that seemed unlikely, as it worked well before and it was behaving normally when I went outside.  Similarly, I thought the hard drive (SSD) had gotten to a critical storage state, affecting the Windows swap files - nope.  

 

I did a lot of research, and there was nothing on the Windows forums I could find.  Tonight, I retyped the Bing search and got the answer.  I'm sorry that I can't recall the exact phrase I used, but it appears that it's related to the latest Windows 11 cumulative update released last week, version 24H2 OS Build 26100.2033, Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 100.26100.23.0.

 

In the link below, Alexander R Grosstephan has a work around posted on 2/7/25 that's easy to apply.  Essentially, when you change the Group Policy on the remote PC to allow only one login via TCP, Remote Desktop allows you to log in.  I've tested it and it seems to work fine.  The only issue is that if you login into the remote PC, forcing a disconnect on the machine that was remoted to it, you have to close the RDP session on that machine - my guess is that the remote PC sees this as multiple logins otherwise.  EDIT To add:  this last doesn't seem to be consistently true.  I suspect it might be related to how long the remote computer waits on the connection status.

 

I don't know if anyone else has run into this issue, but if it helps anyone, I'm glad.

 

EDIT to add:  I forgot to mention that this occurred both with the original "Remote Desktop Connection," which is my preferred remote tool, and "Remote Connection" from the Microsoft Store.

Here's the link:  https://answers.micr...6876dc9a?page=1

 

Bob

Edited by UP4014Fan, 10 February 2025 - 12:29 AM.

[PIEJr]

I just use Tight Vnc.

And have since before Windows came up with their version.

It has always worked for me.

[UP4014Fan]

I just use Tight Vnc.

And have since before Windows came up with their version.

It has always worked for me.

Fair enough, but I've been using Remote Desktop Connection (not "Remote Desktop" from the MS store) for years.  I did try Remote Desktop as well after downloading it (I'll edit my post after I finish this) and had the same problem.

Also, since this seems to be related to the permissions on the remote machine, I'm wondering if the upgrade I mentioned won't affect you as well when installed.  I don't know anything about Tight Vnc, so it's just as likely they have their own protocols.

[vidrazor]

I set my remote Windows computer up like it was described in this video made by Cuiv, the Lazy Geek, and then I shut down all Windows updates. The remote computer is never connected to the internet, so it has no need for security updates that Microsoft shoves down your throat. Now I don't know if this still works on more recent Windows updated versions, as Microsoft is hell bent on keeping you from having a Windows machine with a self-contained hotspot, but once set up, I just use the default Remote Desktop program in Windows to connect, and I'm golden.

[UP4014Fan]

I set my remote Windows computer up like it was described in this video made by Cuiv, the Lazy Geek, and then I shut down all Windows updates. The remote computer is never connected to the internet, so it has no need for security updates that Microsoft shoves down your throat. Now I don't know if this still works on more recent Windows updated versions, as Microsoft is hell bent on keeping you from having a Windows machine with a self-contained hotspot, but once set up, I just use the default Remote Desktop program in Windows to connect, and I'm golden.

I get it, but, right, wrong, or indifferent, this machine gets Windows updates, so I figure others might have run into this or might as updates get rolled out.

[vidrazor]

I get it, but, right, wrong, or indifferent, this machine gets Windows updates, so I figure others might have run into this or might as updates get rolled out.

So your "remote" PC also has regular duties that require it be connected to the Internet? Is it feasible for you to pick up a used laptop or MiniPC that you can use in such a manner so you're not at the mercy (or lack thereof ) of Microsoft?
 

[Tapio]

I have my (Win11) remote NUC connected to network - for example to update asteroid and comet ephemerides. And so far no problems (knock on wood).

[Juno18]

I also have my Mele pc (Win11) connected to home network with internet available. I disabled windows updates in group policy when I first set it up. No issues whatsoever.

[jml79]

I have hated Win11 more and more. I can't use the Wifi in my observatory any longer for a Windows remote connection because of some weird detail in how my network is setup. Wired connections allow RDP just fine but it won't "recognize" the Wifi. My Stellermate PI can connect to the Wifi and fully function and I can even connect my laptop to the Wifi and remote into my 2 mini pc's but if the Win11 mini PC's are on the Wifi then nothing. I only have one router in the observatory so wired or Wifi the computer is connected to the same router and network. 

 

I love NINA (although the 5 extra programs needed to get it working are annoying) and Sharpcap but more and more Stellermate X is looking like a better solution. I hope NINA restructures and releases a Linux version some day but I know this is a huge ask.

[vidrazor]

I love NINA (although the 5 extra programs needed to get it working are annoying) and Sharpcap but more and more Stellermate X is looking like a better solution. I hope NINA restructures and releases a Linux version some day but I know this is a huge ask.

AstroArch is shaping up to be the new Astroberry, a free ISO you can load into a Pi 5 and, for reasons not understood by me (I thought it would need to be compiled for the architecture), also an Intel machine.
 

[jml79]

AstroArch is shaping up to be the new Astroberry, a free ISO you can load into a Pi 5 and, for reasons not understood by me (I thought it would need to be compiled for the architecture), also an Intel machine.
 

Good to know there is a replacement for AstroBerry and that it works on X86 as well. I already have Stellarmate Pi and Stellermate X but I might check out AstroArch on the PI because it is so easy to do. But I really like the tablet app for Stellarmate so will likely stick with those. That and I have been a Debian guy for a few decades so using Arch feels like when you sit down to fix a computer and it's not in your native language.

 

But I still love NINA over KStars/EKOS and really wish I could NINA under Linux. The workflow and UI just suites my brain better than EKOS. I have a feeling that Win11 will likely sour me before next winter and I'll abandon ship. My 2 mini's are the last computers I have running anything other than Debian or a variant.

Edited by jml79, 10 February 2025 - 09:29 AM.

[vidrazor]

...but I might check out AstroArch on the PI because it is so easy to do.

If it's a Pi 4, it might choke, although if you're running Stellarmate on the 4, then you're used to the pace. I use Astroberry on the 4, as it taxes the system less. I use Stellarmate X on a MeLe 3C, and I just installed AstroArch on a friend's Pi 5. I use APT on the Windows setup on a MeLe 4C.

 

We're going off-track here however. Hopefully the OP will find a working solution for his situation.
 

Edited by vidrazor, 10 February 2025 - 10:14 AM.

[PIEJr]

Fair enough, but I've been using Remote Desktop Connection (not "Remote Desktop" from the MS store) for years.  I did try Remote Desktop as well after downloading it (I'll edit my post after I finish this) and had the same problem.

Also, since this seems to be related to the permissions on the remote machine, I'm wondering if the upgrade I mentioned won't affect you as well when installed.  I don't know anything about Tight Vnc, so it's just as likely they have their own protocols.

A friend of mine in North Carolina was running his equipment remotely with a similar Wi-Fi program that had a fee base.

I asked him how he was remotely running his Meade equipment and tried his program. It worked for me as well. (No Windows involved in the pairing. Just the OS on our computers working with each other.)

Anyway, I'm not one to "rent" programs.

So, I found Tight Vnc. it is a free program. (If you had clicked on my link, you could have explored it)

I've been using it for going on 11 years now.

But hey, if you're happy, you're happy.

I'm happy too. Just linking an alternative. Not just for you, but for the Guys and Gals out here that might be interested in Remote Operation. Come on in out of the cold, reintroduce yourself to your telescope widowed wife. (Like a golf widow, but a different bag of stuff.)

 

Now, I do my best to hold windoze at bay. Their little nerd code bangers seem to delight in spitting up updates that kill many of our independent Astro Program drivers.

After all, if it does not come from their Windows Store, it must be bad. So, their Insecurity updates FUBAR our innocent little programs like PHD2, and others, making me have to repair them, or remove and replace them. 

I'd like to know why Windows thinks they own my computers. They shove their half-baked "Security" updates into everybody's computers. Even call them Critical Updates (ooh, like one of my free programs are going to take over the world from my backyard)

I can easily see why folks go to Linex, Ubuntu, and other alternatives.

Me, I haven't found a good auto installing block for Windoze Updates, so I do manual blocking.

But there are times the dweebs pull an end run and I have to spend time removing their carp they planted in my calm and placid waters.

Just so I can take pictures of the sky.

I've been on the Internet since the bulletin board days, and before Al Gore claimed he "invented" it.

I'm still a believer in the free Internet, and the concept it is the free information highway. As long as you can sift through the advertising.

 

And speaking of frivolous updating, who keeps breaking ASTAP? I've never deleted, without using, so dam many Updates. ASTAP is second only to Windoze in Updates lately.

Anybody know how to chop the head off that snake? Every time a program is working fine, somebody fubars it trying to make it work for their OS that is too poor to accept a working app.

Stop coddling to the computer illiterate and let them learn to run a proper computer.

 

Keeping our mount computers happily chugging along is sure getting harder and harder.

 

OK, the soapbox is open.

Edited by PIEJr, 10 February 2025 - 11:43 AM.

[PIEJr]

If it's a Pi 4, it might choke, although if you're running Stellarmate on the 4, then you're used to the pace. I use Astroberry on the 4, as it taxes the system less. I use Stellarmate X on a MeLe 3C, and I just installed AstroArch on a friend's Pi 5. I use APT on the Windows setup on a MeLe 4C.

 

We're going off-track here however. Hopefully the OP will find a working solution for his situation.
 

Threads are like streams. They meander along and sometimes you find some big fish in them. 

Edited by PIEJr, 10 February 2025 - 11:45 AM.

[UP4014Fan]

So your "remote" PC also has regular duties that require it be connected to the Internet? Is it feasible for you to pick up a used laptop or MiniPC that you can use in such a manner so you're not at the mercy (or lack thereof ) of Microsoft?
 

I've considered buying a MiniPC but haven't yet, as, until last week, this I haven't had any issues with what I have and the "other duties" this laptop has are pretty light these days.  I do have an old Lenovo that's a Window's 10 machine stashed away (in other words, I'm too lazy to wipe it and take to the e-cycle center), but it's an AMD A12 machine and I'm not sure it will carry the load of CPWI and NINA gracefully.**

 

I'm not a big Microsoft fan, nor am I overly fond of Apple.  In both cases, I've been known to ask if they keep software engineers working as a social responsibility of some kind because a lot of changes, other than security updates, seem to be changes for the sake of just making changes.  Actually, it's been more like "Everyone got used to the old UI, so now you 'fix' it!?'"

 

As PIFjr said, threads meander like streams.  I found a problem with a very commonly used software platform, a solution to said problem, and posted it to help others who might bump into the same thing.  If it helps others, great.  I've done something good and, if not, at the very least, done no harm to others. 

I never thought this would turn into a "that's no way to make a martini!" conversation.*

============================
*Reference to a joke from the 1950's.  If you ever plan to travel across a desert and you're worried that you'll get lost, carry a bottle of gin and bottle of vermouth with you.  If you fear that you've become lost and are worried about your survival, start mixing a martini. Within thirty seconds, there will be about a hundred people surrounding you yelling "That's no way to make a martini!"

 

**The reference to the old laptop was typed as an afterthought.  I fear that the thread will now go from "no way to make a martini" to "you don't want a martini - you want a gin and tonic!"

[PIEJr]

My 14" display Asus is also my traveling computer. I do have a NUC Intel Stick computer. IIRC it has a 32 or 64 GB hard drive.

It even still works. But the trouble for me with these "blind" computers is for me, I had to make various trips out to see where things were, or to do something at the rig. And that defeated the purpose I had in mind for going remote, as things are today.

Today (and for a while now) I'm enjoying having a computer at each end of my tottering where I can operate the programs, or "Apps". I can say that since getting NINA fully functional last spring, it can be a one click trick.

But I usually like to open at least Stellarium to pick a target. Then I can run that through NINA's Framing Wizard and load my choices into the legacy sequencer. Really trick to get things working. I highly recommend it.

 

Way back, 11-ish years ago, I was just getting started researching this electronic astronomy and it occurred to me, Windows? Or Apple? Which is preferred? I was willing to abandon Windows if Apple worked better.

Turned out that PC was the place to be. Which was a sigh of relief because I was already butt deep in PC's. But I would have changed if it worked out Apple was better.

They are still changing things. Kind of like the water in a meandering stream changes. 

 

Since I like cold Beer, or an occasional Margarita with my daughter in Washington, no opinion on martini's. Something I never acquired a taste for. Nor sports.

But I was wearing a path through the house trying to get my faceless NUC computer to work.    

You can do whichever way you'd like or is easy on the budget. But some nights during the summertime I like to just hang out at the mount and watch what rolls in. because I have a display to look at and the light pollution around me and listen to critters.

 

 

My Asus cost me ~ $300 when I got it. I liked the window-shopping spec's it had. Besides, Brands are like underwear. Everybody has some they like.

And as we know, it does not take much horsepower to run a mount. Just a smattering of what have you. Pick it like shorts and undershirts. 

 

OH, there is a rock ahead, you might like to get an SSD to store your images on. Keeps your computer light and running happy. I love the carp out of mine.

 

 

 

Are we having fun yet?

[UP4014Fan]

My 14" display Asus is also my traveling computer. I do have a NUC Intel Stick computer. IIRC it has a 32 or 64 GB hard drive.

It even still works. But the trouble for me with these "blind" computers is for me, I had to make various trips out to see where things were, or to do something at the rig. And that defeated the purpose I had in mind for going remote, as things are today.

Today (and for a while now) I'm enjoying having a computer at each end of my tottering where I can operate the programs, or "Apps". I can say that since getting NINA fully functional last spring, it can be a one click trick.

But I usually like to open at least Stellarium to pick a target. Then I can run that through NINA's Framing Wizard and load my choices into the legacy sequencer. Really trick to get things working. I highly recommend it.

 

Way back, 11-ish years ago, I was just getting started researching this electronic astronomy and it occurred to me, Windows? Or Apple? Which is preferred? I was willing to abandon Windows if Apple worked better.

Turned out that PC was the place to be. Which was a sigh of relief because I was already butt deep in PC's. But I would have changed if it worked out Apple was better.

They are still changing things. Kind of like the water in a meandering stream changes. 

 

Since I like cold Beer, or an occasional Margarita with my daughter in Washington, no opinion on martini's. Something I never acquired a taste for. Nor sports.

But I was wearing a path through the house trying to get my faceless NUC computer to work.    

You can do whichever way you'd like or is easy on the budget. But some nights during the summertime I like to just hang out at the mount and watch what rolls in. because I have a display to look at and the light pollution around me and listen to critters.

 

 

 

My Asus cost me ~ $300 when I got it. I liked the window-shopping spec's it had. Besides, Brands are like underwear. Everybody has some they like.

And as we know, it does not take much horsepower to run a mount. Just a smattering of what have you. Pick it like shorts and undershirts. 

 

OH, there is a rock ahead, you might like to get an SSD to store your images on. Keeps your computer light and running happy. I love the carp out of mine.

 

 

 

Are we having fun yet?

Yes, I use an SSD, but the cold played havoc with it (Samsung).  However, in the name of expediting things, I've found I kind of like having the images go to One Drive and I copy them to my desktop as the night goes on.

 

I do plan to buy a NAS one of these days soon and eliminate that step.

[vidrazor]

I do have an old Lenovo that's a Window's 10 machine stashed away (in other words, I'm too lazy to wipe it and take to the e-cycle center), but it's an AMD A12 machine and I'm not sure it will carry the load of CPWI and NINA gracefully.**

I think that will be more than adequate to run those programs.
 

[PIEJr]

Blub, blurb, bla, wheese....

 

The fun part is everybody runs different equipment.

 

 

Yes, I use an SSD, but the cold played havoc with it (Samsung).  However, in the name of expediting things, I've found I kind of like having the images go to One Drive and I copy them to my desktop as the night goes on.

 

I do plan to buy a NAS one of these days soon and eliminate that step.

Yep, even here I had some issues with cold.

So, 3 years ago I made a bed heater for my laptop. I got an 8" X 12" reptile heater and put it in the bottom of a 1/4 sheet aluminum pan.

I set my l laptop on the inverted pan (ona bottom) and my laptop gets kept warm enough to be cozy and happy all night. 

[jml79]

I've considered buying a MiniPC but haven't yet, as, until last week, this I haven't had any issues with what I have and the "other duties" this laptop has are pretty light these days.  I do have an old Lenovo that's a Window's 10 machine stashed away (in other words, I'm too lazy to wipe it and take to the e-cycle center), but it's an AMD A12 machine and I'm not sure it will carry the load of CPWI and NINA gracefully.**

I have an old A10 Laptop w/8GB and it runs NINA, PHD2, EQMod, iOptron Mount, ASCOM and ASTAP just fine. The only program that I normally run on a mount pc that it has issues with is SharpCap and even then only when I enable the NR features. I have replaced the platter with an SSD though. It should work just fine for a mount computer as long as it has an SSD.