121 replies to this topic

[symbiosis]

Does anyone know what the status of the new construction is there?

[George N]

Does anyone know what the status of the new construction is there?

 

Whatever it is - right now as I type this (Feb 16, 2025) whatever the status - it is buried under a foot+ of snow and a sheet of ice! I doubt they are doing any work right now.

 

Hopefully someone else knows more than I do - the exact situation should be known at Lyman Run SP - give them a call.

 

Read the following on the DCRN website pages:

 

   1. "Wintertime Alerts" - note that the *new way* to register for overnight use of the astro field (south field) - you have to go to the Visitors' Area on the *north side* to register - the old pole, etc is gone. The new price - starting later this month is $25/night - the 2025 "Galaxy Pass" = $200 and will be available late Feb. -- Galaxy Pass will be discontinued in 2026. See: https://www.pa.gov/a...ark/alerts.html

 

   2. "OVERNIGHT ASTRONOMY OBSERVATION FIELD PERMIT CONDITIONS" - link (https://elibrary.dcn...tConditions.pdf)

 

   3. "OVERNIGHT ASTRONOMY OBSERVATION FIELD RULES AND REGULATIONS" - link (https://elibrary.dcn...Field_Rules.pdf)

 

~~~~

 

The last I heard (posted here on CN and confirmed by a friend who is a member of both 'star party' clubs) -- The North side entrance is now at the west end of the property, which is where the new south-side astro-field entrance will also be located - but not open yet. Both old entrances are closed. Right now, the temporary way onto the astro field is - go down the RV empty station road - at the far end there's a temporary connection on to the far south end of the field near the pit toilet. Hopefully the final arrangement will be complete before "serious observing season" starts.

 

It seems that - the star parties at Cherry Springs are very likely to be far different in 2025. Currently, what the DCRN is insisting on is - they must 'move' to the north-side 'events area' - and there will be *no over-night camping access* provided by the star parties. The star party clubs will have no official connection with the southside "Astronomy Field". If you are attending a star party and want to set up on the South overnight field - you need to register ($25/night) on your own when getting there - which means no guarantee of a spot. If you get there and the field is full - you are out of luck. All of this is still under negotiation.

[peleuba]

It seems that - the star parties at Cherry Springs are very likely to be far different in 2025. Currently, what the DCRN is insisting on is - they must 'move' to the north-side 'events area' - and there will be *no over-night camping access* provided by the star parties. The star party clubs will have no official connection with the southside "Astronomy Field". If you are attending a star party and want to set up on the South overnight field - you need to register ($25/night) on your own when getting there - which means no guarantee of a spot. If you get there and the field is full - you are out of luck. All of this is still under negotiation.

 

At $200 the Galaxy Pass is still a good value even for just a couple of trips up.   And, I agree that the star parties will be a little different.  And, personally, I am re-thinking my whole observing trip calendar and destinations based on these new happenings at Cherry Springs.   

 

What I am hearing and what is likely to happen is this:  The star parties will be held on the traditional overnight astronomy field that's always been the location for these events.  The clubs (CPO and ASH) that sponsor the star parties will have the $25/night camping fee baked into the price of admission.  For example, if the star party last 2 nights and 3 days like the BFSP does, it will be an extra $50 to register for the BFSP to cover the camping fees.   The clubs will then cut a check to DCNR for the aggregate camping fees based on the number of attendees.

 

In any case, it does seem that Cherry Springs has jumped the shark so-to-speak.

[symbiosis]

It seems that - the star parties at Cherry Springs are very likely to be far different in 2025. Currently, what the DCRN is insisting on is - they must 'move' to the north-side 'events area' - and there will be *no over-night camping access* provided by the star parties. The star party clubs will have no official connection with the southside "Astronomy Field". If you are attending a star party and want to set up on the South overnight field - you need to register ($25/night) on your own when getting there - which means no guarantee of a spot. If you get there and the field is full - you are out of luck. All of this is still under negotiation.

This could be a deal-breaker for me.

[AstroBruce]

Would one be able to set up and camp on the overnight field, as usual, and not be part of the star party? 

 

Bruce

[Domerman]

So the star party will now be located where the non serious observers currently are? If so, then you can camp on the observers side (overnight field) without a star party ticket?

Edited by Domerman, 18 February 2025 - 11:36 PM.

[reddog1972]

I believe the idea is to have all camping for serious observers remain on the Overnight Field, but all Star Party activities (raffles, speakers, swap tables, etc) located on the "other side" during the daytime.

[symbiosis]

Whatever it is - right now as I type this (Feb 16, 2025) whatever the status - it is buried under a foot+ of snow and a sheet of ice! I doubt they are doing any work right now.

 

Hopefully someone else knows more than I do - the exact situation should be known at Lyman Run SP - give them a call.

 

Read the following on the DCRN website pages:

 

   1. "Wintertime Alerts" - note that the *new way* to register for overnight use of the astro field (south field) - you have to go to the Visitors' Area on the *north side* to register - the old pole, etc is gone. The new price - starting later this month is $25/night - the 2025 "Galaxy Pass" = $200 and will be available late Feb. -- Galaxy Pass will be discontinued in 2026. See: https://www.pa.gov/a...ark/alerts.html

 

   2. "OVERNIGHT ASTRONOMY OBSERVATION FIELD PERMIT CONDITIONS" - link (https://elibrary.dcn...tConditions.pdf)

 

   3. "OVERNIGHT ASTRONOMY OBSERVATION FIELD RULES AND REGULATIONS" - link (https://elibrary.dcn...Field_Rules.pdf)

 

~~~~

 

The last I heard (posted here on CN and confirmed by a friend who is a member of both 'star party' clubs) -- The North side entrance is now at the west end of the property, which is where the new south-side astro-field entrance will also be located - but not open yet. Both old entrances are closed. Right now, the temporary way onto the astro field is - go down the RV empty station road - at the far end there's a temporary connection on to the far south end of the field near the pit toilet. Hopefully the final arrangement will be complete before "serious observing season" starts.

 

It seems that - the star parties at Cherry Springs are very likely to be far different in 2025. Currently, what the DCRN is insisting on is - they must 'move' to the north-side 'events area' - and there will be *no over-night camping access* provided by the star parties. The star party clubs will have no official connection with the southside "Astronomy Field". If you are attending a star party and want to set up on the South overnight field - you need to register ($25/night) on your own when getting there - which means no guarantee of a spot. If you get there and the field is full - you are out of luck. All of this is still under negotiation.

So, it's unclear to me if the $25/night fee applies to CSSP or is it only for "other" times?

[Rich_W]

I believe the idea is to have all camping for serious observers remain on the Overnight Field, but all Star Party activities (raffles, speakers, swap tables, etc) located on the "other side" during the daytime.

Seems like that would mean a lot of foot traffic across the road. 

[peleuba]

I believe the idea is to have all camping for serious observers remain on the Overnight Field, but all Star Party activities (raffles, speakers, swap tables, etc) located on the "other side" during the daytime.

 

Hey Adam, I think your correct.   

 

My readout of all of this is in post #3 HERE.  The observing part of the star party will occur on the overnight astronomy field as its been done since the very first BFSP in 1999.

 

I believe the Woodsman's Show will also be moving across the street and out of the overnight observing field.  I am not sure if that starts this year, however.

 

 

 

So, it's unclear to me if the $25/night fee applies to CSSP or is it only for "other" times?

 

While it may be unclear, I am pretty sure that the star party organizers will have to account for the overnight camping fee.   It will, likely, be baked into the admission cost of the star party.  See post #3 above for one way that it could work.  The overarching goal of the PA DCNR is make the fees that the astronomers pay be on par with other like camp grounds in parks located in other parts of the state. 

 

Galaxy Passes were a pain to administer and it left a lot of revenue on the table that could not be recovered by DCNR.  They are being discontinued and the price has more the tripled for the final year of availability.  

Edited by peleuba, 19 February 2025 - 03:09 PM.

[AL-14086]

I am curious what perceived purpose this will serve? Is the food truck across the street as well? Are we to cross the 55mph road at midnight for a cup of coffee?

Seems like someone making the call doesn’t have understanding of what a star party is.

[George N]

 

While it may be unclear, I am pretty sure that the star party organizers will have to account for the overnight camping fee.   It will, likely, be baked into the admission cost of the star party.  .....

 

Maybe -- but that's not what I'm hearing (about two weeks ago) from a club member, dark sky fund member, etc. He said that the DCNR insists that the Star Party 'tickets' do *not* include over-night camping or access to the Astronomy Field. If you want to observe/camp there, you need to seperately register ($25/night) - and people staying there *don't* have accesss to the Star Party activities. Basically - Star Party and Observing Field use will be two entirely separate things. My assumption: the star party fees would have to be lowered.

 

But - as I mentioned - it is all still being 'negotiated'.

 

This is not being driven by the local Lyman staff - but by the DNCR "higher ups" - who finally noticed the park because of all the big bucks going into the construction projects.

 

We shall see - keep an eye on it.

Edited by George N, 20 February 2025 - 02:35 PM.

[George N]

So, it's unclear to me if the $25/night fee applies to CSSP or is it only for "other" times?

It's all "unclear" right now - but - the current thinking at the DCNR is - camping on the Astronomy Field and Star Party attendance are two completely separate things. If you want to do both, you will have to arrange for both.

 

Star Party registration will get you attendance at the Star Party events on the North side's new "events area" - but not overnight camping/use of the South Astronomy field.

 

Registration for Astronomy Field use gets you just that, but not attendance at the Star Party events. People NOT part of the Star Party can register and use the Astro Field.

 

It's all still "up in the air" and subject to "negotiation" -- but so far the DCNR has shown no inclination to change their minds.

[George N]

I am curious what perceived purpose this will serve? Is the food truck across the street as well? Are we to cross the 55mph road at midnight for a cup of coffee?

Seems like someone making the call doesn’t have understanding of what a star party is.

Lots of questions - but the club members are thinking you are right - including that the DNCR doesn't understand what star party is (not surprising, since CS Park has probably just hit their radar as a result of the big construction expenses, unusual pricing (they don't like special fee structure just for Cherry Springs), complaints about moving the woodsmen to the north side and limiting access to the Astro Field to only Star Party (not a part of the State Gov't) attendees.

 

What purpose? ....just speculation on my part but its main purpose seems to be to make Cherry Springs conform to what the requirements are at the other State Parks.

 

Food vendor? Ya.... crazy. The clubs are worried about even getting anyone to do it with that usual location. Road crossing? What impact does that have on a major Star Party expense - the event insurance. Plus, they will have to pay for another big tent with chairs, etc after losing access to the old wood pavilion.

 

My info is 2 weeks old - it was all being negotiated at that time, but with no real progress in changing DCNR big-wig minds.

 

Hope for the best and clean those eyepieces!

Edited by George N, 20 February 2025 - 03:11 PM.

[peleuba]

Maybe -- but that's not what I'm hearing (about two weeks ago) from a club member, dark sky fund member, etc. He said that the DCNR insists that the Star Party 'tickets' do *not* include over-night camping or access to the Astronomy Field. If you want to observe/camp there, you need to seperately register ($25/night) - and people staying there *don't* have accesss to the Star Party activities. Basically - Star Party and Observing Field use will be two entirely separate things. My assumption: the star party fees would have to be lowered.

 

 

George, your not reading what I wrote - I think we're in violent agreement.   Let me put another way...  For 2025 and beyond anyone who attends a star party at Cherry Springs will have to pay the camping fee on top of the admission to the star party.   The easiest/best and most efficient process for this camping fee to be collected is to have it baked into the cost of the star party.  The sponsoring club then cuts a check to the DCNR for the aggregate camping fees based on the paid attendance.  If its not done this way, then it becomes a headache for the attendees, park rangers and park management.   I am certain this is the path that it will go.  I see no other way to have a star party and still have the camping fees paid in a quick/easy way.

 

To your other point, this is being driven by DCNR Secretary Cindy Adams Dunn in Josh Shapiro's office.  She is trying to bring equity to all the PA state parks as it pertains to fees.  The timing with the improvements to Cherry Springs was just a convenient place to announce the new fee structure.    

 

As an aside, the whole preferential treatment we astronomers get at Cherry Springs like the Galaxy Passes and the "free" electricity on the field does not go over well with the general public.  This is one way that to ensure everybody pays the same price going forward. 

Edited by peleuba, 20 February 2025 - 03:26 PM.

[George N]

At $200 the Galaxy Pass is still a good value even for just a couple of trips up.  .....

It gets you 8 "free" nights on the Observing Field - for 2025. As of now the website says, 'gone for 2026 and beyond'. If that 8 nights includes the 'traditional' 5 nights of the star parties that you will no longer get with Star Party registration (CSSP = 3, BF = 2) - 3 more nights is not a stretch - even if you are just going those two new moons.

 

Back in November or December a Lyman Run staff person called me up and asked questions about my Galaxy Pass experience and use (I've had one for 6 or 7 years). They said they were gathering info about the Pass. I now assume they were answering an inquiry from DCNR higher-ups about yet another non-standard "Cherry Springs thing".

 

Let's hope for successful negotiations that will support both star parties and other astro users of the park.

 

The good part already happening - relocated roads addressing headlights on the field - and maybe an on-site Ranger for the weekends to enforce the rules.

[George N]

George, your not reading what I wrote - I think we're in violent agreement.  ......

 

Peace Brother! 

 

Stop by my NMT 20" Dob for some observations under a clear dark sky - hopefully sooner than June! Even *imagers* are invited (or I might be imaging myself!).

[symbiosis]

If as speculated, I predict a complete CF, with lots of confused and disappointed people, myself among them.

[peleuba]

Peace Brother! 

 

Stop by my NMT 20" Dob for some observations under a clear dark sky - hopefully sooner than June! Even *imagers* are invited (or I might be imaging myself!).

 

Oh, I've seen your NMT 20...   Its the only scope that I've ever been around that comes complete with a full staff to move, setup, and operate it... 

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Edited by peleuba, 20 February 2025 - 04:23 PM.

[Domerman]

Will the astronomy field no longer require guests to have astronomy equipment?

[peleuba]

Will the astronomy field no longer require guests to have astronomy equipment?

 

For now, yes.  A telescope and/or camera sufficient to view and/or photograph the night sky is required.  See below.

 

For a link to the full list of rules see HERE.

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Edited by peleuba, 21 February 2025 - 09:15 AM.

[George N]

......

Read the following on the DCRN website pages:

 

   1. "Wintertime Alerts" - note that the *new way* to register for overnight use of the astro field (south field) - you have to go to the Visitors' Area on the *north side* to register - the old pole, etc is gone. The new price - starting later this month is $25/night - the 2025 "Galaxy Pass" = $200 and will be available late Feb. -- Galaxy Pass will be discontinued in 2026. See: https://www.pa.gov/a...ark/alerts.html

 

   2. "OVERNIGHT ASTRONOMY OBSERVATION FIELD PERMIT CONDITIONS" - link (https://elibrary.dcn...tConditions.pdf)

 

   3. "OVERNIGHT ASTRONOMY OBSERVATION FIELD RULES AND REGULATIONS" - link (https://elibrary.dcn...Field_Rules.pdf)

 

~~~~

 

 

I would suggest anyone wanting to set up on the Astronomy Field - download links 2 and 3 in the quote above, and print them out - actually, using both sides of a page, you'll only need a single piece of paper. Or just have them on your cell phone? Read for planning and have them at hand when you are there.

 

Anyone shouting at you in the dark is not the source of the 'rules' - these documents are. While we can discuss meanings of them here on CN - any final decision would be by the Rangers. So - if you are really confused - call Lyman Run office and ask.

 

There are certainly other things you might consider as "common curtesy" that are not covered here - like "please don't run your power cord under my vehicle" or my fav - "don't set your tents or equipment too close to my big Dob that rotates in a big circle at night". Oh, my 'other fav' - don't park your vehicle on top of one of the telescope pads"! Let's all be "friendly neighbors."

Edited by George N, 21 February 2025 - 11:31 AM.

[Tsb1948]

Oh I love the smell of napalm in the Spring. 😯

[steveastrouk]

As I remember it, part of the reason for the new works on the site WAS to reduce road crossing traffic - now they'll increase it.

[MikeMiller]

As I remember it, part of the reason for the new works on the site WAS to reduce road crossing traffic - now they'll increase it.

The latest satellite pics on google maps shows that might not even be an option. The area where the crosswalk and old gate was has been completely removed and landscaped over. I think they are trying to make it as difficult as possible to walk between the north and south ends of the park.

 

Which I would be quite ok with, that road is stupidly dangerous even during the day, much less in the middle of the night; except that they are going to make the Star Part impossible to hold.

 

I wonder if DCNR execs that have never been to a real star party, and are confusing it with outreach events where everyone packs up and goes home at midnight.