45 replies to this topic

[RLK1]

Nice review:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=wo1rU1DTPSA

[vtornado]

Reason #4, flex tube allows bino-viewers to come to focus.

[rollomonk]

Interesting video.... thanks for the link!

 

A couple of comments:

1) I always found the 'stiction' in my Orion XT10 to be very annoying and hoped that the Skywatcher, with its tension knobs would be better... apparently not according to Ed Ting.

2) A puzzler is why Skywatcher would include such a heavy optical finder when it is already so top-heavy. Makes you wonder what they're thinking especially since these are a more expensive option than the lighter red dot finders.

Edited by rollomonk, 16 February 2025 - 05:33 PM.

[vtornado]

In heavily light polluted areas, a 50mm finder is a must  There are large swaths of the sky that have no naked eye stars to use a reflex finder.  Perhaps they should include a counterweight for the tail end.

[25585]

Stands are black now?

[JayinUT]

I found on my XT10 I needed the Telrad and the finder. I still like having both options on my telescopes. I guess it is how I learned to star hop and I’m too lazy to try it another way. I do use a counterweight (welder’s magnet) on my XT10.  The XT10 is relegated to outreach, backyard and for the grandkids to learn on one day. 

[skyward_eyes]

Stands are black now?

They use to be black. Everything is white now. This one in the reviews is likely several years old.

Edited by skyward_eyes, 17 February 2025 - 12:35 PM.

[ayadai]

Although I have no interest whatsoever in a Dobsonian mount, I watched the entire video simply because Ed can make even the most personally irrelevant topic interesting and I enjoy his sense of humor: "...another reason people will give to buy one of these is ...'that I just wanted it. I think it's cool, I think it looks neat, I want to set this thing up in the living room and sit in my easy chair and just admire it.' that, my friends is a good reason to buy it."

Edited by ayadai, 17 February 2025 - 10:12 PM.

[RodgerDodger008]

I definitely like the look of the collapsible 12inch better than the solid tube.

But I have to say the all black mount really does not do it for me. Mine is white and black.

My 8 inch is the manual version like the one he reviewed, and those tension handles are not great. But when properly balanced they can essentially be loose and it works well. The base on the 8 inch is teflon padded and that is sticky, but a nice wide field eyepiece helps that problem.

My 12 inch flextube is the goto version with manual clutches. Using that scope manually is a dream as the azimuth has bearings and very smooth. Synscan uses duel encoders on that goto mount so you can use manually without losing allignment.

The mirrors on both my flextubes are very good for mass produced scopes.

For me one of the best bits about these scopes are the variety of ways to change the focus point, 1st click for binoviers or even a 0.50 reducer comes to focus. The focusser has a extention tube for 2 inch and 1.25 inch to reach focus, but removing those allows me to reach focus using a starizona nexus and a asi2600mc. Yes you can image with a dob. ;-)

Edited by RodgerDodger008, 18 February 2025 - 08:41 AM.

[Sarkikos]

I agree with Ting's basic assessment:  There is no real-world advantage of the collapsible 10" over the solid tube 10".   It's mostly a matter of personal preference. 

 

Maybe the only advantage for the collapsible is that it would take up less space in a car.  Maybe time to get a bigger car, maybe one with a hatchback rather than a trunk? 

 

Edit:  Post #2 mentioned that the adjustable struts will allow binoviewers to come to focus without using a Barlow.  Yes, there is that. 

 

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos, 18 February 2025 - 03:08 PM.

[Sarkikos]

They use to be black. Everything is white now. This one in the reviews is likely several years old.

I have heard that white OTA's are better thermally than black ones.

 

Mike

[Sarkikos]

Once again Ting shows that he does not like RACI finders.  I think the weight of the finder was just an excuse to take it off and replace it with some kind of straight-through! 

 

Ting must have a very flexible neck for an older gentleman. 

 

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos, 18 February 2025 - 03:10 PM.

[Sarkikos]

Reason #4, flex tube allows bino-viewers to come to focus.

I agree.  But what are the other three reasons?

 

Mike

[Sarkikos]

I found on my XT10 I needed the Telrad and the finder. I still like having both options on my telescopes. I guess it is how I learned to star hop and I’m too lazy to try it another way. I do use a counterweight (welder’s magnet) on my XT10.  The XT10 is relegated to outreach, backyard and for the grandkids to learn on one day. 

RACI + straight-through is the way to go.   But for the last few years, I've replaced the Telrad with a laser finder.  No more bending down and craning up to look through a straight-through.

 

Worst is a straight-through optical finder by itself.  Someone is actually going to star hop with that?  

 

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos, 18 February 2025 - 03:14 PM.

[vtornado]

I agree.  But what are the other three reasons?

 

Mike

Reasons 1-3 for why the flex tube makes sense. are in the video.  #1.  Saves a bit of space, #2  ??? CRS syndrome ???, #3 it looks cool in your living room.

Edited by vtornado, 18 February 2025 - 04:14 PM.

[Sarkikos]

Reasons 1-3 for why the flex tube makes sense. are in the video.  #1.  Saves a bit of space, #2  ??? CRS syndrome ???, #3 it looks cool in your living room.

IIRC, Ting talked about the idea that the flex tube would save space, and then immediately debunked it.  The footprint would be the same size as a solid tube 10" Dob.  Only the height would be smaller.  I suppose it would save space if you stored it under a shelf, or in a closet with clothes above it.

 

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos, 18 February 2025 - 04:59 PM.

[vtornado]

For the 8 or 10 inch, If one had a front seat passenger, one could fold the tube down, lay it on the rear seat and there would be some more space in the rear for perhaps a kid, or some other gear.  But yeah I get the marginal space saving argument.

 

I had the 12 flex tube which made a lot more sense.  A solid tube would not fit standing up in the front or laying across my back seat.  (ford focus).  The 12 would fit either way in my car once collapsed.

Edited by vtornado, 18 February 2025 - 05:57 PM.

[Jim T]

RACI + straight-through is the way to go.   But for the last few years, I've replaced the Telrad with a laser finder.  No more bending down and craning up to look through a straight-through.
 
Worst is a straight-through optical finder by itself.  Someone is actually going to star hop with that?  
 
Mike

I find a straight-through finder the best to use. My left eye on the target, my right eye peering through the finder. No craning of the neck if you raise the telescope so that the finder is near eye-level while standing straight. I put my smaller dob on a table. My 16" f/4.5 has both the finder and eyepiece at just below eye-level, which is perfect. Everyone has their preference. Those who like to observe while sitting no doubt would not like putting their scope higher.

[Sarkikos]

I find a straight-through finder the best to use. My left eye on the target, my right eye peering through the finder. No craning of the neck if you raise the telescope so that the finder is near eye-level while standing straight. I put my smaller dob on a table. My 16" f/4.5 has both the finder and eyepiece at just below eye-level, which is perfect. Everyone has their preference. Those who like to observe while sitting no doubt would not like putting their scope higher.

I always sit to observe.  I have the RACI positioned so that its eyepiece faces me at the same angle as the telescope's eyepiece, and comfortably near each other.  It's quick and easy to switch between them.

 

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos, 18 February 2025 - 06:34 PM.

[25585]

With the demise of Orion, a S-W Collapsible is the only way to get a new 14" now.

[Sarkikos]

With the demise of Orion, a S-W Collapsible is the only way to get a new 14" now.

Maybe Orion XX14g Goto Truss scopes will be offered at HPS this Thursday during the Big Aperture Telescope System sale.

 

Even if they are in the sale, I might not get one.  I think the base might be heavier and more awkward than I want to deal with.   Maybe it's finally time for me to get an NVD.

 

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos, 18 February 2025 - 08:53 PM.

[dave253]

With the demise of Orion, a S-W Collapsible is the only way to get a new 14" now.

I know Mike (CowTipton) and myself both own these, and love them. My brother has the 12, and if an 8 or 10 popped up locally for the right price I’d get one of those too. They’re great.

[Jon Isaacs]

My friend has the 16 inch GOTO Flextube.  I have read reports by people I trust stating that these scopes show collimation shift as they are moved from the horizon to the zenith.  As a mechanical engineer, it certainly looks suboptimal.  We used a Howie Glatter laser and as well as the laser with the Tublug and his did show collimation shift.

 

Has anyone investigated this with the smaller models?

 

jon

[dave253]

Jon, ours don’t show any shift in that regard, but we have made a couple of mods to prevent it.

 

 I highly recommend stiffer springs for the main mirror cell, and making sure the strut fasteners at the uta and lta ends are very snug does the job. Ours don’t travel though, I can understand things may jostle loose if subjected to a bumpy car ride. 
 

The stock springs on the 14” in particular were very spongy. I also have Bob’s Knobs on my secondary. 

[Eddgie]

I had one of these and have repeatedly cautioned people about buying them, and the reason is the clutch system and the fact that it is nose heavy. 

 

When Ed Ting did his first positive review, I jumped on line and tried hard to make sure to tell people that these scopes are excessively nose heavy and that when you use the friction clutches, you have to use so much tension to keep it from nose diving that it becomes impossible to track smoothly even at low power. Ed glossed over this in his first review, which indicated to me that he really didn't spend any time using the scope. 

 

There is one good thing about it, but I would not buy the scope based on only this reason. The only good thing is that it can reach focus with a binoviewer and no Glass Path Corrector or Barlow. Even here though, the system loses some aperture if you use it in the provided detents.  I made custom detents that allowed it to work at full aperture, but in this position, once again, the tracking was miserable. At the lower setting though, it was an excellent wide field binoviewer scope even though it was working at slightly reduced aperture.  

I tried everything to get this model to be acceptable and the only thing that worked was adding about 5 lbs of counterweight, but then, with the extra weight, the azimuth would be sticky. I replaced the pads with Teflon, but it did not do anything for the motion.

 

I got so fed up with this scope that I sold it, and recommended to anyone that would listen to avoid it. 

 

The Costco Dob, by comparison, has a far superior half moon rocker bearings and a textured surface on the Azimuth plate. This design has the best tracking of any low cost Dob, but the cage has to be modified to put the eyepiece in a comfortable viewing angle. If I were to buy again, I would go with the regular truss model. 

 

Over the decades, I have found many issues with Ting's reviews.  He has a good production value, but I don't think his reviews are all that. Do more research before you buy anything based solely on a Ting review.  

Edited by Eddgie, 19 February 2025 - 09:17 AM.