17 replies to this topic

[FISHINGisEASIER]

Looking for suggestions on a lighter-weight scope, primarily for astrophotography but could also be used to "let the kids see some planets".  Still new to AP so looking for something easy to setup and use that will still yield nice results.  Considering a ZWO AM3 and their ASI2600MC Air camera.to round this out.

 

Not gonna lie...I've considered smart telescopes, like the eQuinox 2 as well.  They would also give me descent results while allowing me to share the "looking" with friends via tablets.  A little less money too.  But I think I'd prefer the feel of a "real" telescope and the ability to see planets through an eyepiece.  I fully understand that a good AP scope would not necessarily be the best for planetary viewing, but I could always purchase a scope just for viewing at a later date.

 

Thoughts?  I'm open to all criticisms so please fire way!!   If my logic is flawed I'd rather know before handing over a wad of cash.   

 

Thank you all.

 

Jerry

[unimatrix0]

Hello, so first things first: 

 

Planetary imaging is different than DSO imaging. 

 

Those 2 require 2 different kind of equipment, although there are some crossover ones, but will require to be customized. 

 

So before you go any further, decide what you are really after.  It's usually either or, or both if you have a large wallet. 

 

DSO imaging is usually the more expensive, but the lower focal length/smaller scopes. 

DSO imaging also requires more precise mounts and taking images of deep sky requires many hours of imaging. 

 

Planetary is usually less demanding as far as mount tracking, but needs larger aperture/ longer focal length telescopes. 

Planetary imaging is usually done in minutes and do not require to have the gear out all night. All you usually need is a few minutes of clear skies. 

 

As I said, a good planetary imager is usually a mediocre or not good DSO imager and vice versa.   Switching from one to the other means switching cameras and telescopes.  Most DSO imaging telescopes are usually less than 1000mm focal length, while planetary imaging telescopes are even beyond 2500mm.  

 

So, while you get yourself an apochromatic refractor with 800mm, it's a less than mediocre for planetary, because of the low focal length, and not even Barlow will help you a lot, your planets gonna be tiny. 

 

On the other hand, a 10 inch aperture Celestron with 3000mm focal length will do excellent images of Jupiter and Saturn, but too long to be used for deep space objects, because DSO's are fairly large. 

Edited by unimatrix0, 18 February 2025 - 11:16 AM.

[TheStarsabove]

You are correct with your understanding of AP scopes and it's terrible application for viewing faint things (at least this goes for beginner AP scopes). You will want to go small, like a 60mm refractor (and if you have the money, just get something like the Askar 65PHQ and save your time , that is hopefully my next scope).

 

Also, PLEASE don't get the Air camera, as it is a complete closed-system. I would recommend going the more traditional route: Scope, guide scope, guide camera, regular camera, and PC/mini-PC for acquisition. The air locks you into using the built-in guide-camera sensor (which people are starting to have problems with) as well as the fact that the computer is built-in (so what happens if that computer breaks? Your whole camera is broke!!!). 

 

BTW, nice to see someone from Illinois doing astrophotography . And I agree with your name: Fishing is easier , which is why I love both . 

[Andros246]

I think a 100-120mm refractor is more than half decent for both applications deep sky AP and casual planet viewing. It’s a very good telescope for deep sky AP.

Throw on a diagonal and a Barlow+ eye peice and the planets looks good for kids and even adults too.


However…. You may need to be more specific when you say lighter weight.


Askar103
Or
Askar120

Use the Askar diagonal for viewing and switch to the flattener/reducer for AP.

Edited by Andros246, 18 February 2025 - 11:18 AM.

[david_od]

How about a Seestar S50 for astrophotography and a 6" f/8 or 8" f/6 dobsonian for planet and general observing?
The Seestar is a lot cheaper, has a dew heater, it's more portable, and you can further process raw images as well if you wish.

 

Edited by david_od, 18 February 2025 - 11:24 AM.

[TheStarsabove]

How about a Seestar S50 for astrophotography and a 6" f/8 or 8" f/6 dobsonian for planet and general observing?
The Seestar is a lot cheaper, has a dew heater, it's more portable, and you can further process raw images if you wish.
The procedure to get the raw data on the equinox seems to be more involved, unless they have changed something (and it seems it's going to be discontinued?).
 

Oh, he could do that... But, depending on his budget, he might want to go up to the Vespera, those seem to be much better (although the S50 is, truly, pretty awesome!).

[FISHINGisEASIER]

Thank you all for your replies!  This is why I come here, which I did a couple of years ago.  I even bought a used telescope from one of your members.  I then proceeded to buy a mount, ASIAir, guide scope, mini guide scope, guide camera, primary camera......and completely overwhelm myself!   LOL  I sold it all and decided I'd regroup and try this again.   When I read about the smart scopes, and then the new ZWO products, it just seemed so much less complicated...although each had their disadvantage.

A smart scope is probably my easiest route, but to me seems like just a telescope-looking camera.  None of the "feels" of real AP.  The ZWO products, while YES a closed system, seemed to offer me the flexibility for a less complicated AP route, still complete with the "feels" while offering the ability to to view through an eyepiece (using a different OTA).

As for the Seestar suggestion...I recently had someone else suggest the same but as you can probably see from this reply, I'm a bit of a go-big-or-go-home dumb$$ when it comes to most things, thus the eQuinox 2 comment above.   LOL.

And YES, Musky fishing, while it can be much more painful, is WAY easier....   

[FISHINGisEASIER]

To Andros246, it looks like the capacity of the AM3 is 17-30 lbs. (with options  counter-weight.  Would prefer to avoid the added counter weight if possible.

[ShiftSix]

To Andros246, it looks like the capacity of the AM3 is 17-30 lbs. (with options  counter-weight.  Would prefer to avoid the added counter weight if possible.

I'm on an AM3 with a RedCat 71 & ASI2600mc pro...  Its a fantastic setup.  I honestly can't say enough good things about it... However it's not what you'd want to look at planets with the kids with.  

RedCat's or any scope of their design are fantastic for being easy to use (no back spacing issues) and wonderful on DSO's but again, if planets are the focus I'd go for what david_od said and pick up a Dob for visual use and a SeeStar 50 to scratch the imaging itch for now.  

 

[Andros246]

To Andros246, it looks like the capacity of the AM3 is 17-30 lbs. (with options counter-weight. Would prefer to avoid the added counter weight if possible.

I’m not sure what I would reccoemnd then,

With that it narrows you down to a small refractor like 70mm-80mm max which wouldn’t be able to see much of any detail in the planets. Or you could get a small reflector they don’t weigh allot but it would be pretty bad if not downright annoying for deep space astrophotography.

Perhaps two scopes would be better in your situation.

Edited by Andros246, 18 February 2025 - 12:20 PM.

[FISHINGisEASIER]

If I've learned anything from this post so far, it's that I'm looking for 2 different OTAs.  Planetary viewing is not the priority...but it would be a nice option.  With the AM3 I could invest in a "viewing" OTA at a later date.  So my focus would be to simplify AP.

I have no real AP experience and no general photography knowledge.  I've done my share of reading and am familiar with much of the terminology you all use like it's a second language.  But it's still "Greek" to me.  I liked the idea of the ZWO camera because it really seemed to dumb it down for someone like me.  As do smart telescopes. 

I still have my ASIAir Pro and a 50mm guidescope.  I've sold off everything else.  So it's a pretty clean slate to start from again.

[ShiftSix]

If I've learned anything from this post so far, it's that I'm looking for 2 different OTAs.  Planetary viewing is not the priority...but it would be a nice option.  With the AM3 I could invest in a "viewing" OTA at a later date.  So my focus would be to simplify AP.

I have no real AP experience and no general photography knowledge.  I've done my share of reading and am familiar with much of the terminology you all use like it's a second language.  But it's still "Greek" to me.  I liked the idea of the ZWO camera because it really seemed to dumb it down for someone like me.  As do smart telescopes. 

I still have my ASIAir Pro and a 50mm guidescope.  I've sold off everything else.  So it's a pretty clean slate to start from again.

If this is the case, if I were you, skip the AIR version of the 2600.  Save the money and run the ASIAir Pro that you have, then research some Petzval style scopes that comfortably sit in your weight limit range. ie William Optic RedCat's, ZWO makes some, Askar's versions etc, pull up a website like Astronomy.tools and plug in the camera you're interested in, and some of the scopes you're eyeing with a few targets of interest and see if you like the framing.  Check reviews on and go from there.  

With what you save from not picking the camera with the air built in you could probably afford to grab ZWO's EAF and simplify your setup time and focus drift as the night goes on.  

[Andros246]

If I've learned anything from this post so far, it's that I'm looking for 2 different OTAs. Planetary viewing is not the priority...but it would be a nice option. With the AM3 I could invest in a "viewing" OTA at a later date. So my focus would be to simplify AP.
I have no real AP experience and no general photography knowledge. I've done my share of reading and am familiar with much of the terminology you all use like it's a second language. But it's still "Greek" to me. I liked the idea of the ZWO camera because it really seemed to dumb it down for someone like me. As do smart telescopes.
I still have my ASIAir Pro and a 50mm guidescope. I've sold off everything else. So it's a pretty clean slate to start from again.

I personally don’t think “ignore the 2600mc air” is a good recommendation for everyone, I don’t see any issue with having guide camera/asi air/main camera all under 1 housing. If I had that option when I started I would’ve went that direction…..

Just throwing my opinion out there it might make sense for you to sell the ASIAIR and 50mm guide scope and go that way especially if money isn’t top priority but connivence is top priority. Lots of people will disagree but many can’t put themselves into others shoes.

Telescope wise the SQA55 is an amazing sharp telescope right now, the sharpest telescope you can buy for that price which beats the redcats by a long shot.

I think that would be the small telescope you would want.

Edited by Andros246, 18 February 2025 - 01:09 PM.

[mayhem13]

If I've learned anything from this post so far, it's that I'm looking for 2 different OTAs.  Planetary viewing is not the priority...but it would be a nice option.  With the AM3 I could invest in a "viewing" OTA at a later date.

Ok....good...and yes......Observing and AP are two very different disciplines. For Observing, a larger aperture goes a long way along with dark skies while AP requires stable precision  over time to compensate for the smaller aperture and less light.
 
That being said, one mount can do both, but the AM3 isn't enough for a more robust scope for observing at a later date or time. I would strongly suggest the AM5 instead which can handle a 9.25 SCT without a counter weight for Observing and AP including some excellent planetary images
 
......and this is where i suggest you start.....an AM5n, a Celestron C9.25 and a planetary camera for observing and planetary imaging. This combined with the ASi Air will help you familiarize yourself with the process of polar alignment, Finding targets and a general introduction into imaging. You CAN also do some Electronic Assisted Astrophotography known as EAA where images can be displayed on a monitor for viewing by family and friends in real time.
 
Once you've become accustomed to the processes above, look for a suitable APO refractor for getting started with deep sky AP. 
 
This was taken with my C 9.25 and a $175 planetary camera

[Sacred Heart]

Looking for suggestions on a lighter-weight scope, primarily for astrophotography but could also be used to "let the kids see some planets".  Still new to AP so looking for something easy to setup and use that will still yield nice results.  Considering a ZWO AM3 and their ASI2600MC Air camera.to round this out.

 

Not gonna lie...I've considered smart telescopes, like the eQuinox 2 as well.  They would also give me descent results while allowing me to share the "looking" with friends via tablets.  A little less money too.  But I think I'd prefer the feel of a "real" telescope and the ability to see planets through an eyepiece.  I fully understand that a good AP scope would not necessarily be the best for planetary viewing, but I could always purchase a scope just for viewing at a later date.

 

Thoughts?  I'm open to all criticisms so please fire way!!   If my logic is flawed I'd rather know before handing over a wad of cash.   

 

Thank you all.

 

Jerry

Jerry,

 

Just me,  DSO imaging, planetary imaging / viewing,  Stellarvue SVX90T.   F6 / 540mm focal length.  With a 2600 camera you can frame / shoot almost anything.  With a small pixel, small sensor camera with region of interest and a 2X barlow / powermate you can do some decent planetary imaging.  With some good eyepieces, you can have a rich field scope or with a Barlow have some decent views of planets.    Yes, it is not a 5" refractor with 1000mm focal length but it is pretty versatile.   Maybe even the SVX102T as well.

 

Recommendation, If you want to do viewing get good well corrected optics.  Nothing beats a good clear crisp sharp view. That my opinion.        

 

As for guiding,  a 50mm or 60mm guide scope or an OAG,  reason  focal length and brightness.  Makes focusing easier, good focus better chance for good guiding.  My opinion too.

 

I own a 92mm / 550mm refractor, 76mm / 480mm refractor and a 130mm / 1040mm refractor.  An OAG with a 174 guide camera, and the three cameras, 533, APS-c and full frame, now realizing I use the full frame 2400mc and the APS-C most of the time.   I have three eyepieces, 22 nagler, 8mm Delos and a 3mm to 6mm Nagler zoom with a 2X powermate. I image and view, a 50 / 50 split.  Oh yeah, my planetary camera is a 462 color camera.

 

I admit, since getting the 130 refractor I have not used the 92 that much, but eventually I will mount it with my 130.  Before the 130, that 92 was my workhorse.

 

My story,    Joe

[whiskeyzebra11]

To get a good idea what things might look like with various scopes, you can pick the scopes (and eyepiece or camera) here and see what the field of view is for various DSOs or solar system objects.

https://astronomy.to.../field_of_view/

[Patrick]

Looking for suggestions on a lighter-weight scope, primarily for astrophotography but could also be used to "let the kids see some planets".  Still new to AP so looking for something easy to setup and use that will still yield nice results.  Considering a ZWO AM3 and their ASI2600MC Air camera.to round this out.

 

Not gonna lie...I've considered smart telescopes, like the eQuinox 2 as well.  They would also give me descent results while allowing me to share the "looking" with friends via tablets.  A little less money too.  But I think I'd prefer the feel of a "real" telescope and the ability to see planets through an eyepiece.  I fully understand that a good AP scope would not necessarily be the best for planetary viewing, but I could always purchase a scope just for viewing at a later date.

 

Thoughts?  I'm open to all criticisms so please fire way!!   If my logic is flawed I'd rather know before handing over a wad of cash.   

 

Thank you all.

 

Jerry

Get a 6" f/8 Dobsonian to start.  The kids will love it and you might too.  My first scope was such a scope that I used for several years.  It gave excellent views of planets and the brighter deep sky objects.  You can also start to learn the constellations if you haven't do so yet, which will lead you to learning what deep sky objects are located where.  There is NOTHING like looking at celestial objects with your own eyes.  

 

Then, if you want to go deeper into AP, start with the mount and a 80-100mm ED refractor.  You have your ASiair for guiding and your 50mm guide scope.  I'm sorry you sold your guide camera as you will still need it.

 

I would also like to comment on the ASI system...yes the way they designed it you need ASI components (except the mount)  to use the ASiair.  I don't like that necessarily, but it does simplify things a great deal.  I spent many hours configuring and running a laptop using Nina, and all the other software and individual components needed to interface with Nina.  I got nothing to show for it...nothing.  Now that I'm on the ASiair track, things are just working...no hassles.

 

Patrick
 

[jml79]

If I had to pick 1 scope to do almost everything, especially with a lighter mount like an AM3 (or my CEM26) it would be the Askar 103APO with all 3 reducers. A 4" refractor is a favorite in the visual astronomy world as a grab and go scope and with my 4" scopes I can see Jupiter with some colour and it's moons, Saturn's rings and some colour in Mars. I can also pick out most of the major messier objects without to much trouble. As an imaging scope a 4" triplet is right in the sweet spot IMHO especially with reducers to give you 420mm, 560mm and 700mm. It is small enough to be easily transported, setup and handled but big enough to really see some great objects. Realistically a 4" scope is usually most people's second scope and they start off with something smaller like a 60-80mm but with the 0.6x reducer the 103APO gets down into 70-80mm focal length range and although it might be a bit heavier it still makes it a good wide field starter scope. But unlike a smaller wide field scope, change the flattener and it takes it's gloves off and comes alive letting you image medium galaxies and smaller nebula. With a 2600 this scope can image huge things like M31 and the North America Nebula but with a smaller 585 and the 1x flattener things like M51 and the Crab Nebula are possible.

 

Now, I don't own a 103APO, I have another, lesser 102mm scope and a 76mm cousin to the 103APO but the experience is similar. I have imaged at all 3 of the focal lengths the 103APO can do with a variety of cameras from full frame to the tiny 585. If I had to sell everything and only keep 1 scope, a 4" with a collection of reducer/flatteners would be the one. It is one of the most flexible scopes out there and an absolute bargain for the price.