19 replies to this topic

[careysub]

 I have some hand magnifiers of various sorts and have recently gotten into meteorite collecting and want to be able to study the petrographic features of the slices I have acquired but am not doing any research. An actual petrographic microscope (as described in the Norton/Chitwood Field Guide) is not suitable as I have no thin section slides nor am I very likely to in the future.

 

Options I am considering are a binocular microscope in the $200-$400 range (inexpensive student or college instruments), a low end gemological microscope ($850 at AmScope - trinocular with both bright field and dark field) another interesting low end option now is digital "microscope" used for coins and circuit boards from $30 to $300 depending on screen size and features.

 

Any thoughts?

[rmorein]

For visual, AO stereo is a terrific instrument.

 

For micro-photography, a Leitz Orthoplan binocular microscope with hollow-barrel integral epi-illuminator objectives gives the level of sophistication of advanced astrophotographers. You can stack and produce amazing images.

 

With epi-illumination -- lighting from above -- thin sections are not required.

Edited by rmorein, 19 February 2025 - 06:02 PM.

[RichA]

 I have some hand magnifiers of various sorts and have recently gotten into meteorite collecting and want to be able to study the petrographic features of the slices I have acquired but am not doing any research. An actual petrographic microscope (as described in the Norton/Chitwood Field Guide) is not suitable as I have no thin section slides nor am I very likely to in the future.

 

Options I am considering are a binocular microscope in the $200-$400 range (inexpensive student or college instruments), a low end gemological microscope ($850 at AmScope - trinocular with both bright field and dark field) another interesting low end option now is digital "microscope" used for coins and circuit boards from $30 to $300 depending on screen size and features.

 

Any thoughts?

"Gemological microscope."  Otherwise know...as a stereo microscope.  There are thousands of used Japanese, German and American stereos on Ebay, why buy Chinese.  AmScope?  OMAX?  Eesh!!!

[rmorein]

"Gemological microscope."  Otherwise know...as a stereo microscope.  There are thousands of used Japanese, German and American stereos on Ebay, why buy Chinese.  AmScope?  OMAX?  Eesh!!!

Second that.

[careysub]

"Gemological microscope."  Otherwise know...as a stereo microscope.  There are thousands of used Japanese, German and American stereos on Ebay, why buy Chinese.  AmScope?  OMAX?  Eesh!!!

They are convenient references of the type of microscope to consider using standard models. It is hard to compare eBay offerings which are a mixed bag that disappear when sales end.

 

Also equating gemological microscopes that are set up for particular types of observations (as took a stab at indicating) does not equate with "just a stereo microscope" the field of stereo microscopes with different capabilities is large.

 

Now if you want to talk about features I should be looking at in surveying eBay listings this could be helpful.

 

Or if you have an actual link to a listing of an actual offering you suggest I should consider, that would be helpful also.

Edited by careysub, 20 February 2025 - 10:44 AM.

[j.gardavsky]

- The old Nikon and Olympus stereo microscopes (made in Japan) are not expensive, and not bad. With a low budget, I would be looking for these.

 

- The old ZEISS (or Carl Zeiss West) stereo microscopes from Göttingen in Germany are optically top, unless their lenses suffer from delamination.

 

- The old Carl Zeiss Jena Technival stereo microscopes are optically just good enough for welding electric circuits of the times around 1980.

 

- The Russian MBS stereo microscopes from the times before1990 have the top LZOS optics. The current version of MBS-10 is here: http://rusoptics.com...iewproduct&id=9

You can find the older versions of the MBS in Germany and in the U.K. for about $300

I have a complete set of their eyepieces.

 

Most of the stereo microscopes of today are manufactured in China, and even those branded as Carl Zeiss and Leica.

 

Whatever stereo microscope you will be choosing, check out which eyepieces it has, and if the eyepieces are genuine, or replacements from China or Taiwan.

 

So, you have a choice,

JG

[RichA]

They are convenient references of the type of microscope to consider using standard models. It is hard to compare eBay offerings which are a mixed bag that disappear when sales end.

 

Also equating gemological microscopes that are set up for particular types of observations (as took a stab at indicating) does not equate with "just a stereo microscope" the field of stereo microscopes with different capabilities is large.

 

Now if you want to talk about features I should be looking at in surveying eBay listings this could be helpful.

 

Or if you have an actual link to a listing of an actual offering you suggest I should consider, that would be helpful also.

You need to consider:

-What magnifications do I need?  Stereos run from 5-100x, depending.

-Do I need photographic capability and does it have to be really good?  (Requires APO objective)

-What working distance from the gem do i need?

-I'll need transmissive and oblique lighting.

-Do I need a ring-light to eliminate shadows or just a transmissive base light?

-Do I want a black or white background if using oblique lighting?

-Do I need lighting of a certain colour frequency?

-Can I avoid paying hundreds or even thousands for a $50 stereo microscope with second-rate optics with a couple extra fittings?

 

Ebay sales show as sales so comparisons are pretty easy.  The below ad is patently absurd and I can guarantee you that its optics will be

nowhere near as good as a used Leica stereo microscope for $2000-$3000.

 

https://store.gia.ed...=43612686418051

[careysub]

- The old Nikon and Olympus stereo microscopes (made in Japan) are not expensive, and not bad. With a low budget, I would be looking for these.

 

- The old ZEISS (or Carl Zeiss West) stereo microscopes from Göttingen in Germany are optically top, unless their lenses suffer from delamination.

 

- The old Carl Zeiss Jena Technival stereo microscopes are optically just good enough for welding electric circuits of the times around 1980.

 

- The Russian MBS stereo microscopes from the times before1990 have the top LZOS optics. The current version of MBS-10 is here: http://rusoptics.com...iewproduct&id=9

You can find the older versions of the MBS in Germany and in the U.K. for about $300

I have a complete set of their eyepieces.

 

Most of the stereo microscopes of today are manufactured in China, and even those branded as Carl Zeiss and Leica.

 

Whatever stereo microscope you will be choosing, check out which eyepieces it has, and if the eyepieces are genuine, or replacements from China or Taiwan.

 

So, you have a choice,

JG

Looking at eBay options you can get a microscope for not too much, generally with one pair of EPs, but then coming up with a set of other magnifications it looks like you would end up spending far more than the microscope itself -- so many of these set-ups are not such a bargain in the end.

 

This is a MBS-9 for $580 with an EP set available right now on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com...:Bk9SR8Ti2JGwZQ

 

At the suggestion of this meteorite publication:

https://www.meteorit...al-microscopes/

 

I am starting with a digital microscope, which will be very versatile for viewing many solid objects, including meteorite chunks and thick slices (the kind I have) to display features in oblique light for not much money. Image capture is available also.

 

Still researching what features are actually useful in a stereo microscope for this hobby.

[careysub]

You need to consider:

-What magnifications do I need?  Stereos run from 5-100x, depending.

-Do I need photographic capability and does it have to be really good?  (Requires APO objective)

-What working distance from the gem do i need?

-I'll need transmissive and oblique lighting.

-Do I need a ring-light to eliminate shadows or just a transmissive base light?

-Do I want a black or white background if using oblique lighting?

-Do I need lighting of a certain colour frequency?

-Can I avoid paying hundreds or even thousands for a $50 stereo microscope with second-rate optics with a couple extra fittings?

 

Ebay sales show as sales so comparisons are pretty easy.  The below ad is patently absurd and I can guarantee you that its optics will be

nowhere near as good as a used Leica stereo microscope for $2000-$3000.

 

https://store.gia.ed...=43612686418051

Seems like the features needed for gem work and the type of meteorite observation I need are quite different.

 

Transmissive light would be obvious for gemstones, but since I am not working with thin slide material for petrographic work that would not be very useful.

I won't be investing thousands in an instrument. Under $1000 all up is what I am considering as options.
 

[j.gardavsky]

Re: MBS-9

 

A better choice is definitely the MBS-10, marked as manufactured by LZOS in Lytkarino,

 

and offered by mikrofreak_1

https://www.ebay.de/...sn=mikrofreak_1

 

The MBS-10 has adjustable magnification factors 1x, 2x, 3x, ...

You may also ask to add a second pair of the eyepieces, like those with the magnification factor of 14x.

 

This vendor is known to me, and the best way would be to contact him for help and recommendation.

 

Magnifications up to about 60x should be enough. Magnifying higher, you will just resolve the surface roughness of your meteorites.

 

Best,

JG

[careysub]

There is one used on eBay right now for $772:

 

https://www.ebay.com...:Bk9SR4CSi9SyZQ

[j.gardavsky]

The lamps for the incident and transmitted light microscopy are missing, and there is some scratch on the body.

The operating condition is unknown, and refurbishing might become expensive.

 

Best regards,

JG

[careysub]

There is one used on eBay right now for $772:

 

https://www.ebay.com...:Bk9SR4CSi9SyZQ

Welp, I bought it. The seller made me an offer (since I viewed it several times I guess) cutting the price to $450. I figured you can't beat that with a stick -- probably not going to get a better deal no matter how much looking I do.

 

It appears to only have 8x EPs =-- which would get me 4.8X, 8X, 16X, 32X, 56X.

 

http://www.microscop...6/rp-mbs10.html

 

Interestingly the EPs are non-standard for microscopes but:
"Their diameter is rather close to the standard diameter used for telescopes, however."

 

I am betting I can come up with EPs with other magnifications, but with the turret objectives (nice, not zoom) I have a good range as it is. I suppose one higher power EP set could be useful, to push to the limit, but really that would be it.

 

The 8X is a 23mm. Maybe a 6mm binoviewing EP pair (already have) to get to an 18.4X to 214X range?

 

I intend to install a video camera on the camera port.

 

The write-up noting many annoying fitting deficiencies (cheap knobs, poor illuminator), as with the EP issue, makes the instrument more attractive in a sense to an ATMer like me. I always modify stuff and really solidly built well designed instrument, as the MBS-10 is universally reported to be, which can be modified easily is really the perfect choice.

Edited by careysub, 16 March 2025 - 03:02 AM.

[j.gardavsky]

Welp, I bought it. The seller made me an offer (since I viewed it several times I guess) cutting the price to $450. I figured you can't beat that with a stick -- probably not going to get a better deal no matter how much looking I do.

 

It appears to only have 8x EPs =-- which would get me 4.8X, 8X, 16X, 32X, 56X.

 

http://www.microscop...6/rp-mbs10.html

 

Interestingly the EPs are non-standard for microscopes but:
"Their diameter is rather close to the standard diameter used for telescopes, however."

 

I am betting I can come up with EPs with other magnifications, but with the turret objectives (nice, not zoom) I have a good range as it is. I suppose one higher power EP set could be useful, to push to the limit, but really that would be it.

 

The 8X is a 23mm. Maybe a 6mm binoviewing EP pair (already have) to get to an 18.4X to 214X range?

 

I intend to install a video camera on the camera port.

 

The write-up noting many annoying fitting deficiencies (cheap knobs, poor illuminator), as with the EP issue, makes the instrument more attractive in a sense to an ATMer like me. I always modify stuff and really solidly built well designed instrument, as the MBS-10 is universally reported to be, which can be modified easily is really the perfect choice.

And so it looks like all took a good end.

 

Enjoy the stereo microscopy views,

JG

[mich_al]

A thought about college instruments  -- often these are built with odd sized components (EP / obective) to inhibit theft.  Could affect your ability to change them.

[j.gardavsky]

Re: LOMO/LZOS eyepieces for the stereo microscopes

 

Their insert diameter of the LOMO/LZOS eyeoieces might be close to 32mm (metric), slightly more than the 31.750mm (1.25") of the astronomy eyepieces.

 

Best,

JG

[careysub]

Slightly more is good. Slightly less would be a problem.

[j.gardavsky]

As I am sometimes using the LOMO/LZOS eyepieces on my 6" F/5 achro, I have an adapter to mount them on the focuser.

 

Thanks to their very high colors saturation (remake of theT3M Zeiss multicoatings for the LZOS glass sorts), they are nice for the terrestrial spotting scoping.

 

Best,

JG

[careysub]

Got the MBS-10 and I am impressed. It is modular in design and easily breaks down into components -- which is how it arrived. No instructions, but I know how microscopes work so it was easy to assemble.

 

It is very solid (but still not too heavy) and the adjustments are easy to work. It does everything a microscope is supposed to do I think, and it has a camera port so you can image capture while viewing.

 

The microscope is actually designed as a head that mounts on a "rail" (20 mm rod), unlike most which are integrated into a dedicated stand and can't be used separately. You can can set up any type of support system for it as long as it as a length of 20mm rod to clamp it to. So it is very versatile.

 

I do need to work out a staging and lighting system that suits my needs -- sounds like fun experimenting.

 

It did not have the glass disk or internal illuminator power supply so currently it can't be used for transmission microscopy but even if the internals are there it needs to be replaced with an LED solution -- all of the MBS lighting options are terrible Soviet era incandescents. However I will rarely have a use for transmission microscopy as meteorite specimens are opaque, so I can just put a sheet of something over the staging surface to cover the hole and transmission lighting. What I need it is a good light source from above and the MIC-209 on Aliexpress recommended by one site discussing the MBS 10 looks like the solution -- provides high quality white LED light in a shadowless manner. With that I should be in operation.

 

https://blog.noq2.ne...nside-look.html

 

And it does take telescope EPs so my whole bino-viewing collection suddenly has potential application. As the stock EPs are 23mm (I read) I will try my 24mm 68 degree EPs to confirm and compare the FOVs.

 

Parts and EPs are available on eBay but honestly there is nothing else I need.

 

A great deal at $450 plus $90 shipping. Definitely the right choice.

Edited by careysub, 25 March 2025 - 10:44 AM.

[j.gardavsky]

Congratulations!

 

The MBS-10 is already the research grade stereo binocular microscope.

https://www.geocitie...ang2000/mbs-10/

https://blog.noq2.ne...nside-look.html

 

Best,

JG