44 replies to this topic

[Mcloud]

I've not come across much on these but the information I do have is that they are extremely well regarded.
Checked the specs and can't see what sets these apart from other premium eyepieces?

[rachnoman]

The price sets them apart.

[RAKing]

Just like the ZAO and the TV Apollo, there is nothing on the outside that explains why it's so good.  From the outside, these eyepieces all look like.... eyepieces.

 

You won 't be able to tell until you look through one.  Then you might understand why it's special.

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

[SeattleScott]

I haven’t looked through one, but perhaps it is the precision German engineering. When you look at the ad copy, there is no advertised spec for how long the lenses were polished, etc. There isn’t really an advertised spec for build quality, other than price.

And I think 84 AFOV combined with long ER is pretty special. Although 80 doesn’t feel that different from 84, you know what they say about paying twice as much for the last few % of performance.

Obviously the eyepiece is kind of in the Maserati class of eyepieces. Ultra rare, ultra high quality, ultra high price. Objectively it might be 10% better than a 12.5 Morpheus to the average person (just speculating as I have never compared them). But there are always some who will pay a substantial premium for the very best.

[CrazyPanda]

I've not come across much on these but the information I do have is that they are extremely well regarded.
Checked the specs and can't see what sets these apart from other premium eyepieces?

Basically Delos quality (sharpness, contrast, color rendition) but in an 84 degree AFOV. They are also *extremely* easy to look through for some reason. Almost impossible to get your eye position wrong. The most comfortable eyepiece in this AFOV class I've ever looked through.

Edited by CrazyPanda, 27 February 2025 - 09:29 AM.

[Highburymark]

Basically Delos quality (sharpness, contrast, color rendition) but in an 84 degree AFOV. They are also *extremely* easy to look through for some reason. Almost impossible to get your eye position wrong. The most comfortable eyepiece in this AFOV class I've ever looked through.

That’s close to the design brief for the new Naglers, I guess. If they’re priced a little bit cheaper than Ethos they will be well below the Noblex, at least in the U.K. and US - Eurozone TV prices are higher.
I’d like to try a Noblex - an 84 degree Delos sounds like a perfect widefield eyepiece, though €1300 a pop is difficult to justify. Particularly as I’d need two…..

[Highburymark]

There’s a pair on UK ABS at the moment for anyone interested - €2,000, or £1575.

[areyoukiddingme]

As well as comfort, the are sharp with excellent contrast. A 12.5mm isn't a good focal length for planets, but used with a 2.5x Powermate, it's surprising how good the views of Saturn and Jupiter are in my reflectors. 

 

The other thing is that the color saturation on the planets is very good in this set up too.

 

Having said all of that, we are talking small differences when compared with a 12.5 Morpheus, and I couldn't justify the current cost.

[Jeff Morgan]

I've not come across much on these but the information I do have is that they are extremely well regarded.
Checked the specs and can't see what sets these apart from other premium eyepieces?

 

There are many eyepieces in my past where the excitement fades after a season or two. The Performance did not live up to the Marketing. Good but not Great. These are the ones we sell or trade out of. The Classifieds are full of them every day. (And btw, on the rare occasion where a Docter comes up on the classifieds - it sells immediately at nearly full price.)

 

There are a smaller number of eyepieces where the Excitement remains - our Keepers. They stay in the collection for years and (hopefully) decades.

 

There is one last category - an eyepiece that actually seems to get better over time. The Docter is the only eyepiece I have owned that fits this category.

 

Note that the "worth it" concept is an entirely different discussion. Largely, that is between the Individual and his Banker.

 

For all of our equipment categories, there are always "almost as good" options for less money. Why is the new Docter (Noblex) run so expensive?

 

Certainly part of the answer lies with the economics of small production runs. IIRC, the Apollo 11 eyepiece was limited to 300 units - but produced all at once. The Docter has had many runs (20 or so based on speculation on the serial numbering scheme), but I have mot seen an individual run number higher than 29 in the Docter threads. It would suggest to me a maximum of 50. Interestingly, that suggests there could be 3x as many Docters out there as Apollo 11's.

 

It also occurs to me that APM may be testing the limits of the demand for such a legendary eyepiece. We will see a repeat of their late-run Supermonocentric experience?

[turtle86]

I've not come across much on these but the information I do have is that they are extremely well regarded.
Checked the specs and can't see what sets these apart from other premium eyepieces?

 

It's an excellent eyepiece but way too expensive now IMHO. I used to have one back when they went for $750 but sold it after comparing it to a Nikon 12.5 HW.  There are lots of old threads on CN discussing the Doctor.

[CrazyPanda]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen people with tracking mounts using an Ethos to look at Jupiter...

 

Nothing wrong with that combo. 6 Ethos is extremely hard to beat and way more comfortable than a 6 TPL - the only thing that might rival it.

 

And if you do DSO observing, then the Ethos has you covered there too.

 

And if you have multiple scopes where some don't track, Ethos is a better fit for that too.

 

I don't doubt this hobby has a lot of "more money than sense" types, but there are plenty of people who buy with purpose, and just because someone is using a hyperwide to view planets on a tracking scope doesn't automatically mean there wasn't purpose to their purchase.

Edited by CrazyPanda, 28 February 2025 - 12:15 AM.

[RichA]

I've not come across much on these but the information I do have is that they are extremely well regarded.
Checked the specs and can't see what sets these apart from other premium eyepieces?

Docter and/or Noblex

[RichA]

I've not come across much on these but the information I do have is that they are extremely well regarded.
Checked the specs and can't see what sets these apart from other premium eyepieces?

Three eyepieces that seem to be very highly regarded:
Nikon's NAV HW 12.5mm

TeleVue's 11mm Apollo.

Docter 12.5mm

[PKDfan]

Three eyepieces that seem to be very highly regarded:
Nikon's NAV HW 12.5mm
TeleVue's 11mm Apollo.
Docter 12.5mm

Nagler 20mm Type2


Cheers !


CSS

[25585]

My Docter/Noblex, Nikon NAV HW 17, ES92s are 2" royalty in my collection    

[areyoukiddingme]

Three eyepieces that seem to be very highly regarded:
Nikon's NAV HW 12.5mm

TeleVue's 11mm Apollo.

Docter 12.5mm

 

A good list, but I'd put the Nikon 14/17 over the 12.5/10. . . it has a degree of extra sharpness that is readily apparent.

[SandyHouTex]

I think maybe it has something to do with what little of the Zeiss mystique that remains.  THE Zeiss, that made everything we know and love, ZAO eyepieces, unbelievable refractors, Telementors, etc., etc. was Zeiss Jena.  They are basically dead, and what remains are these beautiful Doctor/Noblex eyepieces.  Zeiss Oberkochen is not the storied Zeiss everyone here remembers.  They make nothing that resembles what Jena used to design and make.

 

A couple of years ago, that's why I bought two of these, so I could physically touch what little remains of the famous Zeiss corporation with people like Carl Zeiss, Ernest Abbe, Otto Schott, and Albert Konig.

[Tyson M]

My Docter/Noblex, Nikon NAV HW 17, ES92s are 2" royalty in my collection

Where/how to the ES compare to the nikon and docter

[25585]

Where/how to the ES compare to the nikon and docter

They are that good. They have enhanced my viewing pleasure, as have the Nikon and Noblex.

[K-night]

...can't see what sets these apart from other premium eyepieces?

Noblex daytime performance is outstanding. I haven't looked through any other premium eyepiece from FL 6mm to 11mm that can match it for sharpness. I can peer into a shadow and see details on a bird that other eyepieces only show a washed-out silhouette.

[CrazyPanda]

Where/how to the ES compare to the nikon and docter

The ES92 series is optically good, but not excellent. It's easy to see how much tighter the stars are in the 17 Nikon NAV-HW vs the 17 ES92.

 

However, the ES92s dominate for immersion factor. The combination of eye relief and apparent field of view is incredible. The Nikon NAV-HWs come close, and are comfortable, but you definitely feel the lack of eye relief relative to the AFOV. The Docter is easier to look through and therefore more comfortable, but you feel the 84 degree view compared to the 92 field in the ES92s.

 

The 17 ES92 is the only eyepiece that makes me forget I'm looking through it with just one eye.

Edited by CrazyPanda, 28 February 2025 - 09:31 PM.

[PKDfan]

When an eyepiece is flawless in every facet of its optical design its excellence can become an immediate portal to the virtual image world. Opening up myriad contrast textures both subtle and bold. All in an exquisitely sharp field from the field stop to on-axis and if does so sharply & comfortably then thats the space walking effect maximized.

With a wide enough apparent field and those other ingredients of immersion you can become very quickly indeed an intimate part of the imagefield-- immediately journeying throughout it.


T2 Nagler 20mm has those attributes in spades.


CSS
Edit i'd dearly like to see the Doctor for myself. Do you have to make an appointment two months in advance ?

Edited by PKDfan, 28 February 2025 - 09:59 PM.

[25585]

Short waits at present  https://www.apm-tele...piece-uwa-125mm

[WolfTracks]

When you struggle with bad eyes the last thing I want to do is fight with the eyepiece. Astronomy for me is supposed to be relaxing. The Noblex is hands down the most comfortable eyepiece that I have used. Combine that with supurb glass and a magnification of 52X that works well for what I look at, it spends 90% of the time in my telescope. 

 

Of course I wish it could be had for less money. Do I regret buying it--not for a second. Would I trade it for 3 other eyepieces--none that I can think of. 

 

Ultimately you don't need a Noblex to enjoy astronomy. The best telescope and eyepiece is the one that you have. I have had some pretty nice views through an inexpensive telescope. You shouldn't let someone talk you into or out of buying a Noblex, that choice is yours alone. 

Edited by WolfTracks, 01 March 2025 - 11:08 AM.

[TayM57]

When you struggle with bad eyes the last thing I want to do is fight with the eyepiece. Astronomy for me is supposed to be relaxing. The Noblex is hands down the most comfortable eyepiece that I have used. Combine that with supurb glass and a magnification of 52X that works well for what I look at, it spends 90% of the time in my telescope. 

 

Of course I wish it could be had for less money. Do I regret buying it--not for a second. Would I trade it for 3 other eyepieces--none that I can think of. 

 

Ultimately you don't need a Noblex to enjoy astronomy. The best telescope and eyepiece is the one that you have. I have had some pretty nice views through an inexpensive telescope. You shouldn't let someone talk you into or out of buying a Noblex, that choice is yours alone. 

90% of your time is at 52x? Wow, I guess that's one way to get around the seeing!