44 replies to this topic

[WolfTracks]

90% of your time is at 52x? Wow, I guess that's one way to get around the seeing!

I guess Ed Ting and I must enjoy looking at similar things. With the Astro-Physics 110 you can push it to high magnification, but once you drop below about 1 on the exit pupil I start getting the shook snow globe effect from floaters. So about 120x magnification is maxing out for me. 

[RAKing]

90% of your time is at 52x? Wow, I guess that's one way to get around the seeing!

 

I spent a couple of months looking at the Messier objects with my 10-inch Dob.  The best eyepiece by far was the 22T4 Nagler - 55x.

 

You don't always need high magnification to have great views.

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

[WolfTracks]

I spent a couple of months looking at the Messier objects with my 10-inch Dob.  The best eyepiece by far was the 22T4 Nagler - 55x.

 

You don't always need high magnification to have great views.

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

My thoughts exactly! I spent enough time looking at planets and the moon, now I am enjoying (more actually) observing Messier objects. Plenty of things out there to see. 

 

Tony

[davidgmd]

When you struggle with bad eyes the last thing I want to do is fight with the eyepiece. Astronomy for me is supposed to be relaxing. The Noblex is hands down the most comfortable eyepiece that I have used. Combine that with supurb glass and a magnification of 52X that works well for what I look at, it spends 90% of the time in my telescope. 

 

Of course I wish it could be had for less money. Do I regret buying it--not for a second. Would I trade it for 3 other eyepieces--none that I can think of. 

 

Ultimately you don't need a Noblex to enjoy astronomy. The best telescope and eyepiece is the one that you have. I have had some pretty nice views through an inexpensive telescope. You shouldn't let someone talk you into or out of buying a Noblex, that choice is yours alone. 

  
Nothing like an eye(piece) Docter for bad eyes! ​ 

[25585]

Down in price to €1188.81 including 19% VAT.  https://www.apm-tele...piece-uwa-125mm

[Roman M]

They are that good. They have enhanced my viewing pleasure, as have the Nikon and Noblex.

If I understand correctly, the first reason is the large removal of the exit pupil? I don't watch with glasses and I don't like big takeaways. I feel comfortable watching when I'm snuggled up to the eyecup and feel one with it and the telescope. I don't like hovering over the eyepiece in constant search of a comfortable eye position. I've never looked at ES 92° and the like, but I'm not ready to buy such eyepieces for the sake of experiment yet.

[Procyon]

Would love to see the transmission tests on the Docter, Nikon HW's and ES 92's for fun. Never seen any reports on these 3. My eye tells me the Nikon's would be as high as a Delos. If that's possible for a hyperwide...Maybe we can ask TOMDEY or Ernest 

 

Some samples:

 

Light transmission in channels R / G / B  Color rendering in channels R / G / B

 

Televue Delos 10mm 94.7 / 94.0 / 92.1 100 / 99.3 / 97.2
TeleVue Delos 14mm 96.7 / 95.9 / 94.2 100 / 99.1 / 97.4
Pentax XW 7mm 95.0 / 93.0 / 90.7 100 / 97.9 / 95.5
Pentax XW 10mm (copy # 1) 94.3 / 93.4 / 90.3 100 / 99.1 / 95.7
Pentax XW 10mm (copy # 2) 94.0 / 93.3 / 91.4 100 / 99.2 / 97.2
Pentax XW 14mm 95.4 / 94.2 / 91.3 100 / 98.8 / 95.8
Explore Scientific 5,5mm 100 ° 89.9 / 89.0 / 87.9 100 / 99.0 / 97.7
Explore Scientific 9mm 100 90.9 / 86.8 / 83.9 100 / 95.5 / 92.3
Explore Scientific 14mm 100 93.5 / 90.8 / 86.9 100 / 97.1 / 92.9

TeleVue Nagler 31mm 95.6 / 94.3 / 89.0 100 / 98.6 / 93.0

Explore Scientific 24mm 82 94.4 / 92.6 / 88.5 100 / 98.1 / 93.8
Nikon NAV SW 17,5mm 91.5 / 90.4 / 86.1 100 / 98.8 / 94.1

Edmund Optics RKE 28mm ( 1) 95.5 / 94.9 / 91.2 100 / 99.4 / 95.5
Edmund Optics RKE 28mm ( 2) 95.5 / 94.6 / 90.3 100 / 99.1 / 94.6

Edited by Procyon, 20 April 2025 - 09:07 PM.

[j.gardavsky]

In the historical perspective

 

The Bernhard Docter company, later Analytic Jena, and now Noblex, has its roots in Wetzlar, like Leitz/Leica, Hensoldt, and some other optics companies.

 

The Zeiss West Germany, now ZEISS Oberkochen, has one of its roots in the Winkel optics company, later Zeiss-Winkel in Göttingen with its connection to the University of Göttingen (founded by King Charles II, as the Wiki says). At the times of the Zeiss-Winkel company anbd even before, the University of Göttingen used to be one of the centers of the theoretical optics, research and developments, certainly not behind Jena.

 

The Docter ultrawide eyepiece is a Docter company remake of the Carl Zeiss Jena Aspectem eyepiece.

 

There are some eyepieces from ZEISS Oberkochen with their optics designs not traceable to the Carl Zeiss Jena, like their spotting scope eyepieces, and some of their Göttinger microscopy eyepieces also used for our hobby astronomy.

 

This of course does not make the legacy of Carl Zeiss Jena less important, and especially not when we consider it in the historical perspective,

 

JG

[Jeff Morgan]

Would love to see the transmission tests on the Docter, Nikon HW's and ES 92's for fun. Never seen any reports on these 3.

 

I think Mike Lockwood might have the equipment. At one time he was testing filters.

[SandyHouTex]

Would love to see the transmission tests on the Docter, Nikon HW's and ES 92's for fun. Never seen any reports on these 3. My eye tells me the Nikon's would be as high as a Delos. If that's possible for a hyperwide...Maybe we can ask TOMDEY or Ernest 

 

Some samples:

 

Light transmission in channels R / G / B  Color rendering in channels R / G / B

 

Televue Delos 10mm 94.7 / 94.0 / 92.1 100 / 99.3 / 97.2
TeleVue Delos 14mm 96.7 / 95.9 / 94.2 100 / 99.1 / 97.4
Pentax XW 7mm 95.0 / 93.0 / 90.7 100 / 97.9 / 95.5
Pentax XW 10mm (copy # 1) 94.3 / 93.4 / 90.3 100 / 99.1 / 95.7
Pentax XW 10mm (copy # 2) 94.0 / 93.3 / 91.4 100 / 99.2 / 97.2
Pentax XW 14mm 95.4 / 94.2 / 91.3 100 / 98.8 / 95.8
Explore Scientific 5,5mm 100 ° 89.9 / 89.0 / 87.9 100 / 99.0 / 97.7
Explore Scientific 9mm 100 90.9 / 86.8 / 83.9 100 / 95.5 / 92.3
Explore Scientific 14mm 100 93.5 / 90.8 / 86.9 100 / 97.1 / 92.9

What is "color rendering"?

[Procyon]

What is "color rendering"?

https://www.lenstip....and_lenses.html

 

https://www.scienced...360132322001998

 

https://www.smartgla...dex-smart-glass

 

https://www.videomak...olor-rendition/

[CrazyPanda]

Would love to see the transmission tests on the Docter, Nikon HW's and ES 92's for fun. Never seen any reports on these 3. My eye tells me the Nikon's would be as high as a Delos. If that's possible for a hyperwide...Maybe we can ask TOMDEY or Ernest 

 

Some samples:

 

Light transmission in channels R / G / B  Color rendering in channels R / G / B

 

Televue Delos 10mm 94.7 / 94.0 / 92.1 100 / 99.3 / 97.2
TeleVue Delos 14mm 96.7 / 95.9 / 94.2 100 / 99.1 / 97.4
Pentax XW 7mm 95.0 / 93.0 / 90.7 100 / 97.9 / 95.5
Pentax XW 10mm (copy # 1) 94.3 / 93.4 / 90.3 100 / 99.1 / 95.7
Pentax XW 10mm (copy # 2) 94.0 / 93.3 / 91.4 100 / 99.2 / 97.2
Pentax XW 14mm 95.4 / 94.2 / 91.3 100 / 98.8 / 95.8
Explore Scientific 5,5mm 100 ° 89.9 / 89.0 / 87.9 100 / 99.0 / 97.7
Explore Scientific 9mm 100 90.9 / 86.8 / 83.9 100 / 95.5 / 92.3
Explore Scientific 14mm 100 93.5 / 90.8 / 86.9 100 / 97.1 / 92.9

TeleVue Nagler 31mm 95.6 / 94.3 / 89.0 100 / 98.6 / 93.0

Explore Scientific 24mm 82 94.4 / 92.6 / 88.5 100 / 98.1 / 93.8
Nikon NAV SW 17,5mm 91.5 / 90.4 / 86.1 100 / 98.8 / 94.1

Edmund Optics RKE 28mm ( 1) 95.5 / 94.9 / 91.2 100 / 99.4 / 95.5
Edmund Optics RKE 28mm ( 2) 95.5 / 94.6 / 90.3 100 / 99.1 / 94.6

Where did these numbers come from?

[Procyon]

Where did these numbers come from?

 

Give me a sec, I'll look for it, it must be around here somewhere. Been a while since I went through all these saved files.

 

~Always save the source!

[Procyon]

It seems to have come out of this file, but who is the tester? We'll need to find out I guess. 80% chance it came from these forums.

 

Looks like I cut and paste a few stats from different sheets into this one to centralize them for easy access.

Attached Files

•  EP Transmissions.xlsx   16.71KB   11 downloads

Edited by Procyon, 21 April 2025 - 09:45 AM.

[Procyon]

Here it is, ..It came into memory now...from Ernest's site:

 

https://astro--talks...tr_hl=en#p54992

 

https://astro-talks....?p=54992#p54992

 

It's very possible the binocular tester went on an eyepiece testing binge after finishing all those binocular tests. As obsessive as we are with these stats, they can get a little crazy in the binocular world too lol.

Edited by Procyon, 21 April 2025 - 10:30 AM.

[CrazyPanda]

Wow, so then those are interesting numbers.

 

Delos has very high transmission.

 

I'm surprised the Pentax XWs aren't higher.

 

I'm *not* surprised the Nikon NAV-SW is so low though. That tracks what I see in my 7mm NAV-SW - both through the eyepiece and in terms of coatings.

[Procyon]

I think I may have ignored a fun important stat in the 3rd column and where at the bottom it explains it better: 

 

2) The green channel is taken as 100%, for the red and blue channels the color rendering defect is given relative to green: "+" light transmission is greater than in green, "-" light transmission is less than in green, for example: +5/+5 - average level of purple tone, -2/-2 - a little green, +5/-10 - strong warm tone, -1/+3 - a little cold tone.

 

But when I look at the two 10mm Pentax XW samples: +0.9/-3.4 and +0.8/-2.0 does that mean a neutral? It must lean more neutral. The Delos eyepieces show about the exact same stats, good stuff. 

Edited by Procyon, 21 April 2025 - 11:35 AM.

[SandyHouTex]

Here it is, ..It came into memory now...from Ernest's site:

 

https://astro--talks...tr_hl=en#p54992

 

https://astro-talks....?p=54992#p54992

 

It's very possible the binocular tester went on an eyepiece testing binge after finishing all those binocular tests. As obsessive as we are with these stats, they can get a little crazy in the binocular world too lol.

It seems odd that many of the eyepieces render red at 100%.  I would thing the designers would shoot for 100% in green, and some do that.  Examples are the Vixen NLVW 30mm, Celestron X-Cel LX 7mm, etc..  I don't see the Doctor/Noblex anywhere.

[Procyon]

It seems odd that many of the eyepieces render red at 100%.  I would thing the designers would shoot for 100% in green, and some do that.  Examples are the Vixen NLVW 30mm, Celestron X-Cel LX 7mm, etc..  I don't see the Doctor/Noblex anywhere.

I'm pretty sure he explains in more detail in one of those 139 messages. Traveler in time that is.

 

Example:

 

At Ernest's suggestion, another column with an alternative representation of color rendering has been added to the table.

Let me remind you that color rendering is currently represented as follows:
The channel with maximum light transmission is taken as 100%, and the remaining two are proportionally smaller, i.e. the light transmission value in each channel is divided by the maximum value of the three and multiplied by 100%.

Ernest suggested another option:
The green channel is taken as 100%, and the color rendering defect is given for the red and blue channels. The light transmission values ​​in the red and blue channels are divided by the value in the green channel, multiplied by 100% and 100% is subtracted. For example, the light transmission in the R/G/B channels = 93/90/85%. We bring green to 100%: divide red and blue by 90 and multiply by 100, we get R/B = 103.3/94.4%. Then the defect in the red channel is 103.3-100 = +3.3%, and in blue 94.4-100 = -5.6%. The table will show +3.3/-5.6.

 

If you feel like explaining all that to me, be my guest.   

Edited by Procyon, 21 April 2025 - 12:11 PM.

[JoeBlow]

In the approximately 8 years I've had my 12.5 Docter, many eyepieces have come and gone through my eyepiece case, but the Docter remains. With my current eyepiece set I often have thoughts and plans on replacing every eyepiece I currently have with a better or more suitable alternative - except the Docter... In fact for the past number of years I plan my eyepiece spacing based on the Docter being the constant.