66 replies to this topic

[LDW47]

I like to think telescope manufacturers were/are concerned about children damaging their eyes, not just with the threat of a lawsuit.

Dream on, initially they like to cover their back against the crazy ones that think they know more. Once its sold they don't have the time or resources to ensure where those stickers end up. If you were them would you, they are strung out all over the world, eh.

[Steve Allison]

You can’t always get a perfect result, but you can try. At least the initial purchaser has been warned and an injury possibly averted.

 

Who are the crazy ones who think they know more? Why the cynacism?

[LDW47]

You can’t always get a perfect result, but you can try. At least the initial purchaser has been warned and an injury possibly averted.

 

Who are the crazy ones who think they know more? Why the cynacism?

We were always told as kids not to ever look at the sun, at least we were up where I come from, that should carry through to your later years, ya think. And when we did it was only with our dads welding mask, during an eclipse, acetylene goggles weren't strong enough. So if someone buys a scope and points it to the sun, cart blanche, and has a 'quick peek' with out ensuring they know what they are doing then they have to be crazy or ...... stupid, right. And if their are kids around they should be policed very strictly, eh. And now you know my thoughts, my cynacism !  PS:  And we won't even get into the internal damage that will occur to the scope without a solar filter. You have done solar scope work right and the discussion that continually goes around about that dangerous issue of naked sun viewing.

Edited by LDW47, 13 March 2025 - 05:57 PM.

[Steve Allison]

“Crazy or stupid”?… or just uninformed newbies? Okay. I’m done.

[Michael Covington]

People know that there is such a thing as solar astronomy.  They don't know much about filters.  I think the warnings are appropriate.

[LDW47]

People know that there is such a thing as solar astronomy.  They don't know much about filters.  I think the warnings are appropriate.

If you would read and digest the issue it is not the warnings that are the talk, the concern, eh. Its the fact that many owners remove them and its their perogative, they own the scope at that point. And there is nothing anyone can do about that, its their scope, right.

[Michael Covington]

I think we have gone in a complete circle, as I am being exhorted to read things that I wrote.

Reminds me of when I cited a NASA publication on eclipse safety -- which cited Dr. B. Ralph Chou -- who on one particular point cited... me.

[LDW47]

I think we have gone in a complete circle, as I am being exhorted to read things that I wrote.

Reminds me of when I cited a NASA publication on eclipse safety -- which cited Dr. B. Ralph Chou -- who on one particular point cited... me.

Ya sure, eh.

[oldmanastro]

I have to agree with warnings about looking at the sun posted in telescopes where they can be easily seen. It will protect both children and adults. In olden times the warnings were included in the instruction manuals that everyone was supposed to read before using a telescope but lets be honest, a lot of people don't read instruction manuals anymore. I was 13 when I got my first telescope. That was 60 years ago. I went through the short manual and read about not looking directly at the sun through the telescope. The manual instructed that I should use the small eyepiece filter made of a piece of welder's glass. Even that was dangerous but at the time most of us thought that the filter was ok and observed the first sunspots in a green sun. We were lucky that our particular filter never cracked due to the intense heat of the focused sun. Maybe the fact that the telescope was just a 60mm refractor helped. Even with the warning labels, when looking at the sun with kids, you have to supervise.

[LDW47]

I have to agree with warnings about looking at the sun posted in telescopes where they can be easily seen. It will protect both children and adults. In olden times the warnings were included in the instruction manuals that everyone was supposed to read before using a telescope but lets be honest, a lot of people don't read instruction manuals anymore. I was 13 when I got my first telescope. That was 60 years ago. I went through the short manual and read about not looking directly at the sun through the telescope. The manual instructed that I should use the small eyepiece filter made of a piece of welder's glass. Even that was dangerous but at the time most of us thought that the filter was ok and observed the first sunspots in a green sun. We were lucky that our particular filter never cracked due to the intense heat of the focused sun. Maybe the fact that the telescope was just a 60mm refractor helped. Even with the warning labels, when looking at the sun with kids, you have to supervise.

Arc welders glass is not dangerous in the least, check with any professional, if you knew the types of rays that come off an arc welder rod you would not be telling any of this. Acetylene welding googles are a different story, eh. And we were told about not looking at the sun long before we were old enough for a telescope, right. And if you weren't you weren't taught very well, lol.  Besides my recolection about this thread is not the warning labels being at issue but the complaint was / is owners removing them after they bought them, which is their choice not some liability, the companies put them on to protect them from guys maybe like you, really.

Edited by LDW47, 16 March 2025 - 07:13 PM.

[oldmanastro]

Arc welders glass is not dangerous in the least, check with any professional, if you knew the types of rays that come off an arc welder rod you would not be telling any of this. Acetyene welding googles are a different story, eh. And we were told about not looking at the sun long before we were old enough for a telescope, right. And if you weren't you weren't taught very well, lol.  Besides my recolection about this thread is not the warning labels being at issue but the complaint was / is owners removing them after they bought them, which is their choice not some liability, the companies put them on to protect them from guys maybe like you, really.

 It seems that you never read about the old eyepiece solar filters cracking because of the extreme heat of the focused sun image. During welding the welders glass is not directly exposed to extreme heat and will not crack. In addition the glass used for welder's filters today is much thicker than what was used for the eyepiece filters 60 years ago. The danger in welding is from extreme UV radiation hitting the eyes if the filter is not used. I guess that I know a little bit of science. My comment goes directly into what this thread is all about. All I am saying is that they are there for a purpose. The owners have the choice of doing whatever they want with the label but, if the telescope is later sold to someone that doesn't know much about telescope the danger of an accident with solar observing is there. 

[LDW47]

 It seems that you never read about the old eyepiece solar filters cracking because of the extreme heat of the focused sun image. During welding the welders glass is not directly exposed to extreme heat and will not crack. In addition the glass used for welder's filters today is much thicker than what was used for the eyepiece filters 60 years ago. The danger in welding is from extreme UV radiation hitting the eyes if the filter is not used. I guess that I know a little bit of science. My comment goes directly into what this thread is all about. All I am saying is that they are there for a purpose. The owners have the choice of doing whatever they want with the label but, if the telescope is later sold to someone that doesn't know much about telescope the danger of an accident with solar observing is there. 

The use of the glass filters that fit on the telescope eyepiece wasn't mentioned til your post or I missed it but it has nothing to do with the sun warning labels which I thought was the issue in this thread. I am very familiar with the glass ep solar filters, I have a couple and they are dangerous and we have all talked about their hazard. As I mention in my post that arc welding without using a mask is a blinding situation and I am sure you know the arc flash danger as well, the suns rays produce high intensity heat as well harmful rays, we all know that. The point I made is that an arc welders mask is not harmful to directly view the sun, I used them as a kid and discussed it many times with professional eye specialists over a beer, lol. But all of this has nothing to do with telescope owners removing a sun warning label, good or bad ie the law doesn't prohibit it, that I know of, right.  PS: The main idea of the welders mask is to protect from the suns harmful rays the same as if you were arc welding, acetylene googles is another story, its a no-no for sun watching.

Edited by LDW47, 16 March 2025 - 07:11 PM.

[oldmanastro]

The use of the glass filters that fit on the telescope eyepiece wasn't mentioned til your post or I missed it but it has nothing to do with the sun warning labels which I thought was the issue in this thread. I am very familiar with the glass ep solar filters, I have a couple and they are dangerous and we have all talked about their hazard. As I mention in my post that arc welding without using a mask is a blinding situation and I am sure you know the arc flash danger as well, the suns rays produce high intensity heat as well harmful rays, we all know that. The point I made is that an arc welders mask is not harmful to directly view the sun, I used them as a kid and discussed it many times with professional eye specialists over a beer, lol. But all of this has nothing to do with telescope owners removing a sun warning label, good or bad ie the law doesn't prohibit it, that I know of, right.  PS: The main idea of the welders mask is to protect from the suns harmful rays the same as if you were arc welding, acetylene googles is another story, its a no-no for sun watching.

I have also used welders glass to view the sun especially during eclipses. They are excellent for this purpose. I brought the old eyepiece filters just as a historical note and because many of these filters are part of abundant vintage telescope kits and should be discarded or kept under lock and key. Maybe we should discuss these filters over a beer lol. Again, I know the old filters have nothing to do with the solar observing labels but whenever solar observing and the dangers that it brings is discussed, it's not a bad idea to remind people, especially younger ones, of these old little .965" filters. The fact is that some new Chinese telescopes are using a more modern version of these eyepiece filters in 1.25" format even though their telescopes are well labelled about the dangers of solar observing. BTW, I don't like today's big solar observing warning labels but just let them be. 

[csrlice12]

Warning!  This telescope contains substances known to cause cancer by the State of California.  

[LDW47]

I have also used welders glass to view the sun especially during eclipses. They are excellent for this purpose. I brought the old eyepiece filters just as a historical note and because many of these filters are part of abundant vintage telescope kits and should be discarded or kept under lock and key. Maybe we should discuss these filters over a beer lol. Again, I know the old filters have nothing to do with the solar observing labels but whenever solar observing and the dangers that it brings is discussed, it's not a bad idea to remind people, especially younger ones, of these old little .965" filters. The fact is that some new Chinese telescopes are using a more modern version of these eyepiece filters in 1.25" format even though their telescopes are well labelled about the dangers of solar observing. BTW, I don't like today's big solar observing warning labels but just let them be. 

You're right.

[mikey cee]

Come on people you can't protect the world from itself! Live and learn. That's another reason why God gave us two eyes!  What next don't use cell phone when Jay walking

Edited by mikey cee, 17 March 2025 - 01:00 AM.

[EJN]

I don't like stickers much either, but sometimes I forget how things work