30 replies to this topic

[Kevin_B]

Last night I was doing my thing (stealth science, as I like to call it) from the middle of town.  I have a favorite spot that gets a lot of foot traffic.  These days I use the lightest scope that gets the job done, which is one of those ubiquitous 102mm Maks.  Its perfect for the Moon and planets. 

 

Last night four young men stopped for a look.  I fully expect to discuss the “did we really go to the Moon?” question at some point and that’s exactly what happened. I have a short answer prepared that ends with, “all the Apollo landing sites have been photographed from lunar orbit by Russia, China, Japan, India, the ESA as well as the US.  They all show the same thing, which exactly matches what NASA reported back in the day”.

 

One guy said, “What if that’s all fake, too?” I asked, what would be the benefit of all these countries conspiring to fool us?  What’s the payoff?  The answer?  Its all one big psyop (psychological operation). 

 

They all seemed happy with that answer, and I realized at that point there was nothing I could say to change their minds.  I’m sure they talked later about how they “owned me” and shut me down. 

 

The rest of the night was great, as it always is, but that that interaction made me sad.  Its a shame we have to deal with this.

[Alex65]

That's one reason I don't interact much with the 'younger generation' anymore. It sometimes seems to me that the current generation, brought up with the internet, are a totally different species to myself and that I'm some kind of relic from the past who still believes that men went to the Moon and other 'fairy tales'!  

[lee14]

Neil deGrasse Tyson has the best response. It would be easier to actually make the trip than it would be to convince the hundred thousand individuals that were directly involved with the missions, than to successfully devise a conspiracy to deceive the public.

 

Lee

[BQ Octantis]

Hi Kevin,

 

Big lunar landing believer here.

 

There was a book I read that helped me understand this attitude. It is not so much a degraded feature of the Internet generation but a relic of our shamanistic past. As long as there's been technology, there have been early adopters ready to exploit it to spruik their mystic beliefs that are constantly validated by the faulty wiring in our ancient brains.

 

https://www.goodread...-occult-america

 

Every one of us is born hardwired with logical fallacies that allow us to sleep at night. And in 2025, a faked moon landing is far more exciting than the crazier fact that it took 25% of the country's GDP to actually get us there.

 

BQ

[tcifani]

Sigh ...  at this point, I think I'd just shrug it off and move on, maybe make a joke that your scope is really just a slide projector with a photo of the moon inside of it. Arguing these facts has become pointless. 

 

I don't remember any discussion of fake moon landings many years ago. Maybe the internet and social media are partially to blame? I think there are many reasons.

 

According to this study in the U.S., at least 10% (and possibly up to 35%!) don't believe the moon landings happened:

 

https://www.statista...ding-was-faked/

Edited by tcifani, 09 March 2025 - 09:27 AM.

[BQ Octantis]

Sigh ...  at this point, I think I'd just shrug it off and move on, maybe make a joke that your scope is really just a slide projector with a photo of the moon inside of it. Arguing these facts has become pointless.

 

I've found that showing the reality coupled with quietly stating the facts makes the scientist the modern shaman! If you push so far that you begin to make them question their beliefs, you trigger a protective mode that you have no hope against. But the small seeds of fact bury themselves in that same faulty wiring—and they'll even quote you on it if it fills a gap in their mythology!

Edited by BQ Octantis, 09 March 2025 - 09:11 AM.

[rachnoman]

Many people need a reality check.

Edited by rachnoman, 09 March 2025 - 09:55 AM.

[Diego]

People are just so ignorant these days it's scary. If it was faked, Russia would have been the first to disprove the moon landings being that they "lost" the space race at that time.

Sometimes, I actually don't even want people to look through my scope because of comments like this... what's the point if they are going to watch a flat earth video and believe it....

I recently showed some friends Jupiter, one of them was quite interested and viewed for some time. The other literally glanced for 1 or 2 seconds and said "ohh nice" and went on to do something else

Edited by Diego, 09 March 2025 - 09:30 AM.

[Paul Skee]

On the other hand, watching the obvious delight expressed by the many tends to offset the minor annoyance these conspiracy advocates desire to instill..

This passage comes to mind:

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”

The source is unimportant.

[zoso916]

Neil deGrasse Tyson has the best response. It would be easier to actually make the trip than it would be to convince the hundred thousand individuals that were directly involved with the missions, than to successfully devise a conspiracy to deceive the public.

 

Lee

The number of people that worked on the moon landing directly and indirectly is closer to a quarter million. Which brings me to one of my favorite Ben Franklin quotes, "Three people can keep a secret, as long as two of them are dead." 250,000 people keeping a secret would itself be a greater accomplishment than landing on the moon.

[KI5CAW]

Alas, most people are simply stupid; think of a Bell curve representing human intelligence; half the population is below the mean. It has always been this way, but before the Internet, the stupidity was confined ti isolated communities; whereas now, the Net makes communication instantaneous.To paraphrase Asimov, "my ignorance is just as valid as your knowledge."

[BQ Octantis]

Alas, most people are simply stupid; think of a Bell curve representing human intelligence; half the population is below the mean. It has always been this way, but before the Internet, the stupidity was confined ti isolated communities; whereas now, the Net makes communication instantaneous.To paraphrase Asimov, "my ignorance is just as valid as your knowledge."

In the Internet age, it's My ignorance is way cooler and has way more sources than your boring knowledge!

 

BQ

[Phil Cowell]

Many people would do well breathing in a vacuum.

 

Many people need a reality check.

[dnrmilspec]

That's one reason I don't interact much with the 'younger generation' anymore. It sometimes seems to me that the current generation, brought up with the internet, are a totally different species to myself and that I'm some kind of relic from the past who still believes that men went to the Moon and other 'fairy tales'!  

I hope you do not mean this.  I work with homeless people including operating a medical clinic for them and have a great many wonderful volunteers of high school and college age.  They charge my old batteries every time I work with them. 

 

They live in a world, where, with careful application, they can know just about the sum of human knowledge by just pushing a button on their phone.  Sure there are dumb people out there but judging by the state of the world these days, I would have to submit that, generation wise, there is plenty of ignorance to go around.  My fellow geezers are certainly not topping the charts.

 

Before we complain about young people these days we ought to look at Cloudy Nights and see how many people, middle age and older, who are absolutely stumped by collimation or running a simple GOTO hand controller. Three screws or a dozen buttons and they are completely flummoxed.   

 

Kids are fine.  They are our best things.  I wish they were running the show.

[Dave Mitsky]

Our Cold War adversary, Russia (how times have changed), at that time the Soviet Union, would have been screaming to high heavens if the landings had been "faked".

[Dave Mitsky]

https://mythresults....sa-moon-landing

[WarmWeatherGuy]

Neil deGrasse Tyson has the best response. It would be easier to actually make the trip than it would be to convince the hundred thousand individuals that were directly involved with the missions, than to successfully devise a conspiracy to deceive the public.

 

Lee

I think NDT may have watched this funny 2 minute video on YouTube. That Mitchell and Webb Look - Moon Landing Sketch

[csrlice12]

Of course we have.  The tracks it uses on the inside of the sphere surrounding the Earth requires frequent maintenance.

[Bill Weir]

That's one reason I don't interact much with the 'younger generation' anymore. It sometimes seems to me that the current generation, brought up with the internet, are a totally different species to myself and that I'm some kind of relic from the past who still believes that men went to the Moon and other 'fairy tales'!  

 

 

I hope you do not mean this.  I work with homeless people including operating a medical clinic for them and have a great many wonderful volunteers of high school and college age.  They charge my old batteries every time I work with them. 

 

They live in a world, where, with careful application, they can know just about the sum of human knowledge by just pushing a button on their phone.  Sure there are dumb people out there but judging by the state of the world these days, I would have to submit that, generation wise, there is plenty of ignorance to go around.  My fellow geezers are certainly not topping the charts.

 

Before we complain about young people these days we ought to look at Cloudy Nights and see how many people, middle age and older, who are absolutely stumped by collimation or running a simple GOTO hand controller. Three screws or a dozen buttons and they are completely flummoxed.   

 

Kids are fine.  They are our best things.  I wish they were running the show.

The 1st comment about today’s youth is offensive. The 2nd is what I see in my life. If oldies don’t interact with the youth then how will new knowledge transfer to the old and vice a versa. The Moon hoax theory began long before the youth of today were even born. Perhaps even as their parent were being hatched. 

 

And dnrmilspec, thanks for what you do with the un-housed, their lives only seem to get harder day by day.

 

Bill

[SparkyMike2010]

In my possibly naive opinion I think the reason why Russia, china, others and most recently India have all sent photo evidence supporting the moon landing is because even though the United States spearheaded, financed, engineered, built, and ultimately delivered on the Apollo program, it took all of human knowledge from all of human history with parts and raw materials sourced from all across the globe to accomplish. Apollo scientists and engineers collaborated with other scientists and engineers from across the globe to tackle challenging issues. At the end of the day it was an accomplishment of all of human kind.

Edited by SparkyMike2010, 10 March 2025 - 02:44 PM.

[Airship]

Heavy sigh... the only way to win is not to play.

 

I get this more often from flat-earthers than moon landing deniers. Either way, my stock answer (unless I feel it is an honest inquiry) is that I am here to share the view through my telescope, not to discuss my personal beliefs.

 

I will not let the 0.1% ruin the evening for the 99.9% that are enjoying the view.

 

Spread the Joy!

[goldenraccoon]

Keep fighting the good fight (source: 25y/o who knows we've landed on the moon)

[StarWolf57]

Although conspiracy theories have been around since the dawn of time, I do believe the Internet has made things much worse. "Influencers" on social media platforms often post contrarian views (knowing they are false) just to get attention and more "likes". Then they all try outdoing each other until many are left utterly confused and not sure what to believe.

 

Of course, even the most basic critical thinking would root out about 99% of this nonsense, but alas, it's rare skill in today's world.

Edited by StarWolf57, 19 March 2025 - 03:33 PM.

[Russell Swan]

This story reflects on the greater distrust of academia, expertise, authority and news which foments so much misinformation these days. The easiest way to tyranny is to make the population stupid, where they literally can not discern the difference between reality and fake news. 
 

Sadly that’s where we have arrived in the U.S.A.

 

Yes, we did land on the Moon, and the Earth really is round. Believe me!

[Phil Cowell]

Working with young engineers, they are as curious and knowledgeable as we ever were. if I survive another decade, when the young step up, I think we will finally be in good hands. No from a political perspective but a human one.

Disinformation has become so easy to propagate is scary, but AI has already turned and bit the hand of one of its funders and flagged their posts as lies. There's plenty of hope both human and synthetic,

 

This story reflects on the greater distrust of academia, expertise, authority and news which foments so much misinformation these days. The easiest way to tyranny is to make the population stupid, where they literally can not discern the difference between reality and fake news. 
 

Sadly that’s where we have arrived in the U.S.A.

 

Yes, we did land on the Moon, and the Earth really is round. Believe me!