92 replies to this topic

[starman876]

Naw only 5 super bad SCT's a Meade 7" ED and a mushy Comet catcher and catcher JR that would never come to focus.  Mounts are another matter.

You got a lot of miles out of a handful of scopes

[CHASLX200]

Anything Vixen has always been good.   There neo series was hit and miss⁹

I never had anything newer from Vixen after around 1995.

[CHASLX200]

You got a lot of miles out of a handful of scopes

Many more bad mounts than optics.

[starman876]

You got that right. And we got someone that post on here saying they never had a bad scope. SO that would be a lie. or they don't know jack about optics.

 

As many as i have had you will have a few bad 1's.

 

My rating system is easy.

 

Past nuts insane freaky sharp means when you look thru a scope at Jup the image knocks you out of the seat and you say WOOOOOWWWWWWWWW the detail snaps to life.

 

Freaky sharp means the image is alive with detail and you have a top made optic.

 

Very good means the image is very nice and the scope it doing it's job bob but could be better.

 

Good to so so means the image is ok to good but lacks that snap and pop on Jup as details just kinda show but no real life to them.

 

Lack luster means the image is not so hot and the scope has fair to poor optics.

 

Mush dog- mush monster and or Mush bucket means very bad optics were nothing forms a clean image. Jupiter will mush in and out of both sides of focus and never snap chaps.

 

This only counts for collimated- cooled scopes and not any pinched optics or bad seeing. Seeing has to be 8+ for my rating system.

 

So out of all the scopes i have had the avg fall into the lack luster to very good range. The APO's all fall into the top ratings but also vary a tiny bit. But don't count the Meade 7" ED as it was in the worst of the worst due to the cell not the lens.  All my high end Dobs gave the best planet images by far with OMI- Terry O , Zambuto and a Galaxy mirror.  My 18" Tectron fell into the mush dog rating thanks to a bad Nova 18" F/5 blank where planets would much around focus and never snap.  The Tectron scope itself was very good and smooth.

 

SCT's by far got the lower ratings with around 6 being well past Avg and were super good.  Never had a old school slower Newt let me down. All fast Newts made in the 70's and 80's that i had were a sea of coma and much monsters as that pre Nag and Paracorr days. All older school better built Fracts were also super good.  Maks are another story as all my bigger Maks were not so hot. 7" Q a flop, 8" Intes could not be collimated but i think would have been fine and a SW180 Mak while better than SCT's was nothing that threw me back in the seat while two 125 ETX that have that perfect snap and contrast. Just also used a Intes 703 that was also very good but seems to be toe to toe with the SW703 that had a big C/O.

 

 

Never owned a RC or Cass as any i have used were not so hot.

A shame you never had a good mak

[starman876]

Must be over 75% gent. As out of around 65 i have had only 6 got top ratings and most were in the good to lack luster range. Only 5 i have seen hit the total mush monster rating.  A friends mint 1982 C11 and a gray 2004 C8 i had and three 2045's.

 

You all gotta remember these scopes are made for a cheap price and can't expect Tec like images or AP. Then ya got a image robbing big C/O and the corrector itself is the killer.

So if that is true and the images were not so hot.

[starman876]

I would try centering the corrector plate and then do a complete collimation. Getting the corrector directly in front of the mirror is critical.

 

-drl

I do not think that many are brave enough to attempt to center the optics.  And you are right many suffered from this problem.  Of course. Many people. Do not have a dpac set up to really know what they got. Of course a good star test would show that also.  However, most would dump the scope once they realized they had a looser.

[CHASLX200]

So if that is true and the images were not so hot.

Very true this is why i don't care for SCT's.  No matter how good a SCT is a 8" vs a 8" Newt with a top made optics can't beat the Newt with a smaller C/O and no corrector to muddy the view. Big C/O's alone are killers to my eyes and notice  it right off the bat.

[starman876]

A shame. There are some scopes out there that Re compound scopes that are awesome.   However they are out of your price range.   I feel blessed to have some of them

[CHASLX200]

A shame. There are some scopes out there that Re compound scopes that are awesome.   However they are out of your price range.   I feel blessed to have some of them

I am not paying 20k + for a 10" AP Mak when this for $1250 can't be beat.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[ccwemyss]

All of the SCTs I've had have used cork shims to center the corrector plate in the cell. Mind you, there were all from the mid-80's to the early-90's. Dunno what they are using these days...

My C14 had cardboard like from a cereal box. But the prior owner had taken it apart, so I don’t know if it was original. 
 

Chip W.

[Defenderslideguitar]

I have seen countless times where a good design is poorly assembled. The cells on SCTs - at least the ones I know - are very sloppy and use cardboard (!) compressive rings to fix the corrector.

 

Since there MUST be some QA control over how the correctors are made, they cannot be bad in proportion to the reports of poor performance. Yes there are examples of master blocks just wearing out. But making a corrector is a machine process, which can be monitored. I doubt the glass changes much.

 

I mean them minimum you should expect is 1/4th wave. That's enough at 8" to make excellent views.

 

-drl

This seems like you are really on to something.....Admittedly, I did not trust myself to tinker or in my case it might be tamper with things             Somehow for 30 years  my 1984 MeadeLX2 was so good but I was careful not to jostle it ever     the 2  C-8's I had were not bad   just something was a hair off perhaps and they had been through a lot before I had them and they were unfairly compared to an exceptional particular Meade sct 

 

If nohing else  this topic is somewhat of a learning experience    keep the posts coming

[starman876]

I am not paying 20k + for a 10" AP Mak when this for $1250 can't be beat.

You should look into CFF scopes.   They build some really awesome scopes and they are a lot less than 20K

[starman876]

We all should have the experience of that once in a lifetime view of an object  that you remember forever.   I have had a few.   However,  I do not think they come regularly.   A lot of things have to come together at the same time.

[Airship]

That has been my experience, particularly with the classics. Gaskets take a set, spacers get lost, mounting rings come loose, sponge rubber disintegrates, grease dies out, the list goes on. My routine with most classics is a complete tear-down, cleaning, regreasing, replacing worn/missing cork/rubber spacers and gaskets, and then re-assembly. The Thought is if I can return them to new condition they should work as they were originally designed. So far, that has worked out pretty well and is a lot of fun seeing how these scopes were put together. By far the most common issue that I have seen are components that have simply come loose for one reason or another and have come out of alignment and/or won't/will never hold alignment. As a group, refractors seem to age better than compound scopes. The most common issue that I have seen with refractors is film between the elements, a flipped front element, missing/replaced spacers. Newtonians tend to also age well; coatings tend to be the problem. I occasionally find pinched/stuck optics. SCTs, MCTs, SNs, almost always need a complete tear-down; slides needing cleaning/regreasing, loose lock rings/gaskets, missing/shrunk corrector shims, occasionally a collapsed secondary stand-off/pivot.

 

Always fun.

 

Speaking of sharp. Among my scopes the sharpest of the sharp are my Unitron 510, Unitron 155, and 6" f/15 Jaegers (still being evaluated). My pair of Meade Mak 7s come in a close second, followed by my 1969 Questar 3.5 standard and all of my other Unitrons with the exception of one example of a 114 that shows a bit of astigmatism (I suspect a bit of wedge between the elements, on my short list to troubleshoot). All of the rest of my classics would get at least an Honorable Mention. In that group my white tube C5 deserves a Special Mention and probably deserves to be in the 3rd tier.

 

All subjective, but fun to ponder.

 

So many scopes, so few clear nights...

 

Enjoy!

[Bomber Bob]

Except for a few antiques / displays / oddballs, all my Keepers are Freaky Sharp -- no room or time for anything else...

 

Beautiful as my gray 1974 DX8 Kit was, it was a Mush Dog.  My Kenko SC125L F14.4 is almost Mak-Like for an SCT -- so I know high-performance versions can be made.  Ditto for my 2 Keeper Newts -- Mizar 130SL & Meade 826.  And, ALL 5 of my Classic Taks.  And, my Dakin 4" F10.  And, my "new" Kenko A80M F12.5.  On shakier ground:  My Jaegers 6" F5, Mizar GT-80S F7, BORG K10-76AB, and Vixen 60S F7...  None of these refractors is mushy -- they're just redundant.  That's why my C80P is gone, along with Clammy -- my Strand Of Clams C102.  Even those edge defects didn't make it mushy...

Edited by Bomber Bob, 10 March 2025 - 09:13 PM.

[Rick-T137]

We all should have the experience of that once in a lifetime view of an object  that you remember forever.   I have had a few.   However,  I do not think they come regularly.   A lot of things have to come together at the same time.

This EXACTLY.

 

I've got a few awesome views etched in my mind...

• The first time I saw the GRS on Jupiter through my 10" SCT along with festoons and smaller ovals - it was like looking at a Voyager photograph (this was pre-Hubble)!
• The first time I saw the Cassini Division on Saturn through my original C8.
• On a night of super clear seeing, the view of the Owl nebula (M97) and the Surfboard galaxy (M108) through my Meade 2080 LX3 were just unbelievable. I spent hours looking at them (as well as other objects) - but those two are etched in my mind. I felt like I had a 20" scope!
• Seeing fantastic detail on the surface of Mars through my Orion StarMax 127 during the 2003 close opposition.
• Seeing the Pup in Sirius through my Explore Scientific ED-102.
• Picking off the craterlets in Plato through my FREAKY SHARP Meade 2080 LX3 as well as spotting the lunar V and X.

Actually, I have a lot of awesome views etched in my mind. There's way more than listed above.

What a great hobby!

 

Rick

[Bomber Bob]

Actually, I have a lot of awesome views etched in my mind. There's way more than listed above.

What a great hobby!

 

Amen!!  It's like my 2 other hobbies - hunting & fishing.  Once you buy the gear, the observing is FREE.  And, you're outdoors, in the fresh air & moon shine (& if you're Down South, you can have moonshine inside you, too!).  And, like a lot of outdoor activities, it's relaxing; and, it can be so simple - point scope at object, and enjoy.

 

On Topic:  Before I built my DPAC Rig, I called any refractor Outstanding if I could focus a sharp lunar / planetary limb at 75x per inch or higher.  These became my Keepers... until I got too many Keepers!  For reflectors, I shoot for 60x per inch; and, for CATs, 50x per inch.

 

Yes, so many Memorable Views:  Mars in my Uncle's 3" UNITRON.  Saturn in Jim Vice's 8" F7 Cave.  Tons of objects (& 1000s of hours!) in my 1978 Tasco 15K.  Mars!! in my 1988 D&G 5" F10.  So bright, bold, & contrasty that even the optics in my Panasonic VHS-C camcorder couldn't distort it -- it'd put it up on a Panasonic 13" TV so all my CAP Cadets could see it.  Great memories sharing our hobby with those young folks!  And... Debbie's reaction seeing about a 4" wide Jupiter on my laptop monitor, made by that ugly old 1971 Criterion RV-6 - that was timeless... though she still thinks we're a bit off for getting out in the damp COLD or humid HOT (with Bugs!) to look at this stuff, she gets it.

Edited by Bomber Bob, 11 March 2025 - 06:10 PM.

[Terra Nova]

A couple of days ago I came across what I believe was your C8 refurb.

 

Is this the same person?    

https://www.cloudyni...t-c8/?p=8472023

I’m not sure I'm understanding your question. As you can see, they were my posts, my pics, my C8 at the time. 

[Terra Nova]

I’m not sure I'm understanding your question. As you can see, they were my posts, my pics, my C8 at the time. 

BTW, it was a 2nd qtr 1977 C8 that I acquired in March of 2018. I had another one (an early to mid-80s) that I acquired in 2013 and let go in 2015.

[Kasmos]

I’m not sure I'm understanding your question. As you can see, they were my posts, my pics, my C8 at the time. 

Sarcasm

[CHASLX200]

Actually, I have a lot of awesome views etched in my mind. There's way more than listed above.

What a great hobby!

 

Amen!!  It's like my 2 other hobbies - hunting & fishing.  Once you buy the gear, the observing is FREE.  And, you're outdoors, in the fresh air & moon shine (& if you're Down South, you can have moonshine inside you, too!).  And, like a lot of outdoor activities, it's relaxing; and, it can be so simple - point scope at object, and enjoy.

 

On Topic:  Before I built my DPAC Rig, I called any refractor Outstanding if I could focus a sharp lunar / planetary limb at 75x per inch or higher.  These became my Keepers... until I got too many Keepers!  For reflectors, I shoot for 60x per inch; and, for CATs, 50x per inch.

 

Yes, so many Memorable Views:  Mars in my Uncle's 3" UNITRON.  Saturn in Jim Vice's 8" F7 Cave.  Tons of objects (& 1000s of hours!) in my 1978 Tasco 15K.  Mars!! in my 1988 D&G 5" F10.  So bright, bold, & contrasty that even the optics in my Panasonic VHS-C camcorder couldn't distort it -- it'd put it up on a Panasonic 13" TV so all my CAP Cadets could see it.  Great memories sharing our hobby with those young folks!  And... Debbie's reaction seeing about a 4" wide Jupiter on my laptop monitor, made by that ugly old 1971 Criterion RV-6 - that was timeless... though she still thinks we're off for getting out in the damp COLD or humid HOT (with Bugs!) to look at this stuff, she gets it.

My all time best all time best best best all time best view was in Feb 2001 with a non GO-TO Starmaster - Zambuto 14.5" with sea fog moving in and Jup and Sat were dead still at 1150x pow wow. I ran out of more to give them . This is why i want a 1.5 and 2mm eyepieces.  It was unreal and the bad thing is hand tracking a Dob at them POW WOW's don't cut it as the planet is as big as the FOV and the speed it moves is way too fast.

Edited by CHASLX200, 11 March 2025 - 06:00 PM.

[CHASLX200]

You should look into CFF scopes.   They build some really awesome scopes and they are a lot less than 20K

Buddy just got a 14.5" CFF and it was hurt in shipping and ya all wonder why i never ship and the 703 i used he sold and it got hurt going to the buyer.  He wants to sell a C14 with rings for 3.5k.  2ndary spun and needs working on. He says it is very good.

[starman876]

Buddy just got a 14.5" CFF and it was hurt in shipping and ya all wonder why i never ship and the 703 i used he sold and it got hurt going to the buyer.  He wants to sell a C14 with rings for 3.5k.  2ndary spun and needs working on. He says it is very good.

oh wow. which one of these CFF scopes did you get?

 

https://cfftelescope...ducts/reflector

[CHASLX200]

oh wow. which one of these CFF scopes did you get?

 

https://cfftelescope...ducts/reflector

Not me. Him. Not sure ,it was a 14.5"  but got damaged in shipping. So much stuff gets messed up that is why i stopped shipping many years ago.

Edited by CHASLX200, 11 March 2025 - 06:28 PM.

[Eric P]

Yep, I traded a perfectly fine TV102 for a perfectly mushy 10” classical cassegrain.  
 

edit:  actually thinking back I enjoyed some nice deep sky views with my father through that 10” classical cassegrain so mushy but no regrets.

Edited by Eric P, 11 March 2025 - 07:38 PM.