60 replies to this topic

[zjc26138]

A nice vintage scope. Well done!

So, you are in Ohio.

So, I live in Ohio.

So, I do DPAC and star testing.

Sooooo......

Jeff

That could be arranged! I think you live near Cincinnati and I’m toward Pittsburgh, Pa. Not a bad drive!

[zjc26138]

First issue, if you can call it that.

The CEM60 tripier is not high enough off of the ground. Looking at Jupiter and the scope is only 1 foot off of the ground.

I don’t know if iOptron makes a riser for their tripier

[zjc26138]

First light was a sucess (other than needing some kind of pier).

 

Jupiter looked great, although I think there was some CA? Honestly it wasn't the best night for viewing. I did resolve the Moons into discs, don't think I've ever seen that visually before!

 

Saw polar cap on Mars and the best part of the night. Quite possibly the best view I've had of M42, I was blown away! I used a ES23mm 68 degree eyepiece.

 

Can't wait for more clear skies.

 

Also, first time using motor focus. Where has this been all my life!

[Joe Bergeron]

I had one of those old 6” f/8s. Yes, it has chromatic aberration. Glass types in the 80s were not like what is available today. It would not be considered an apochromat today. You may find as it cools down that the color improves suddenly. 
 

I hope my old scope is still kicking around someplace. 

[zjc26138]

I look forward to using when seeing is better.

 

From what I can tell ioptron doesn't make a riser for the tri-pier so I'll have to figure something out.

[CreatorsHand]

I look forward to using when seeing is better.

 

From what I can tell ioptron doesn't make a riser for the tri-pier so I'll have to figure something out.

First of all, congratulations on the scope! Actually, I believe iOptron makes makes a mini-pier that should work perfectly for your tri-pier. https://www.highpoin...-extension-8032

I bought a used one before I purchased my 1200GTO (when I was planning on using my CEM60 for the dome I intend to put up). My plan was to mount my CEM60 on the LeSuer pier I picked up used (which was designed for and had a mounting plate for a 1200GTO). I was going to cut it down from 8" to 3" or so, to keep the height down. It fits perfectly on the William Optics Mortar Tri-pier I use for my CEM60, so it should work perfectly for your iOptron Tri-pier. If 8" isn't enough, you should be able to stack two to get 16", but you would need to watch stability.

 

Paul

 

[zjc26138]

Yep, that will work!

No clue how I missed it on ioptrons site.

[scout]

I almost bought a similar 1989 6" f/8 model last year from a seller near me. It was complete with the original AP 706 equatorial mount and tripod. Beautiful condition, $3,000 for everything.

 

But the heavy mount, giant wood tripod and OTA together weighed about 90 pounds and I knew I'd rarely lug it all out. Sometimes I regret not buying it though. It's good you jumped on yours since you've always wanted one.

Edited by scout, 19 March 2025 - 04:36 PM.

[BRCoz]

No clue how I missed it on ioptrons site.

 

 

You had such a grin being an AP owner you eyes were not able to open very much.

[Scott99]

My old scope!   It looks like someone has replaced the original focuser with the machined AP 2.7" focuser with a custom endcap which is great.  The heavier focuser will make the tube less front-heavy too - the original OTA weighed only 19 pounds which is amazingly light for a 6" refractor.    They upgraded the rings to newer ones as some point too.  You can tell someone took really good care of it over the years. 

 

Congrats!  Excellent find.  Getting rare to find these 80's refractors in such good condition.  The lens in the one i had was fantastic.  I still have not matched the level of detail seen on Jupiter one special night of steady seeing, even after trying with a 160EDF for many years. 

[Scott99]

I have one of the old 142mm F7, “NASA” glass scopes. It was one of the first in the Starfire line. I bought it back in 1989, and it was my first real refractor. So much for starting out with an 80mm scope.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure the "NASA" glass was long gone by this time.  Your scope is one of the first of the pre-ED "Starfire" designs which had about 5x less CA than the scopes that preceded it. 

 

There was nothing particularly special about the NASA glass, it was not extra-dispersion, btw, the specialness of it was that AP was able to buy a huge amount of quality glass for cheap when they were just starting up the company.  I believe it was used up in the earlier runs of 6" f/9's early-mid 80's.  Then around 86-87 they moved to the "High Resolution Portable" 6" f/8 design.  Then, around 1988, the pre-ED Starfire design took over and the 6" Starfire went back to f/9 again.

 

There's an excellent collection of AP catalogs from this time with all the specs & info if people are interested

 

https://holgermerlit...P_catalogs.html

Edited by Scott99, 21 March 2025 - 10:34 AM.

[Scott in NC]

 

There's an excellent collection of AP catalogs from this time with all the specs & info if people are interested

 

https://holgermerlit...P_catalogs.html

Thanks so much for sharing that link. I had been searching for information on my recently acquired Star12 ED from the 1990-1991 era, and this is just what I was looking for.

[Scott99]

Thanks so much for sharing that link. I had been searching for information on my recently acquired Star12 ED from the 1990-1991 era, and this is just what I was looking fr.

just FYI...some of the ad copy says the ED element is uncoated, but I've seen 3 samples and they were all fully multi-coated.  Also, a few of them were made oil-spaced instead of air - I had one.  Another interesting thing to check - if you see the gold foil spacers it's air-spaced.  The color correction is similar to FS128/FS152

Edited by Scott99, 21 March 2025 - 11:15 AM.

[zjc26138]

My old scope!   It looks like someone has replaced the original focuser with the machined AP 2.7" focuser with a custom endcap which is great.  The heavier focuser will make the tube less front-heavy too - the original OTA weighed only 19 pounds which is amazingly light for a 6" refractor.    They upgraded the rings to newer ones as some point too.  You can tell someone took really good care of it over the years. 

 

Congrats!  Excellent find.  Getting rare to find these 80's refractors in such good condition.  The lens in the one i had was fantastic.  I still have not matched the level of detail seen on Jupiter one special night of steady seeing, even after trying with a 160EDF for many years. 

That is so cool that this was your scope!  I love it!  Were you the original owner? 

 

Yes, the guy I bought it from took fantastic care of it. Lens to appears to be 10 out of 10, body is about 8.5/9 out of 10.

[Scott99]

That is so cool that this was your scope!  I love it!  Were you the original owner? 

 

Yes, the guy I bought it from took fantastic care of it. Lens to appears to be 10 out of 10, body is about 8.5/9 out of 10.

Sorry, should have said "same model" as my old scope - I sold mine to a buyer in Australia.  That's so great the lens is pristine, hopefully it has a nice long life ahead of it   Enjoy the views

[BillinBallard]

FWIW, I'm pretty sure the "NASA" glass was long gone by this time.  Your scope is one of the first of the pre-ED "Starfire" designs which had about 5x less CA than the scopes that preceded it. 

 

There was nothing particularly special about the NASA glass, it was not extra-dispersion, btw, the specialness of it was that AP was able to buy a huge amount of quality glass for cheap when they were just starting up the company.  I believe it was used up in the earlier runs of 6" f/9's early-mid 80's.  Then around 86-87 they moved to the "High Resolution Portable" 6" f/8 design.  Then, around 1988, the pre-ED Starfire design took over and the 6" Starfire went back to f/9 again.

 

There's an excellent collection of AP catalogs from this time with all the specs & info if people are interested

 

https://holgermerlit...P_catalogs.html

First let me say, Congratulations on your new scope! I’m sure will serve you well for a long time to come.  

 

Frequently the subject of “NASA” glass comes up when we are talking about pre ed AP’s from the 80’s. It has always been my understanding by the time the Starfires appeared in 1986, “NASA” glass was no longer being used.   

Here is some great information from Thomas Back in the late 90’s     https://groups.googl...r/c/KKnD2Vc_hcQ

 

Here is a shot of a 6” F9 lens cell with the NASA glass.  

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by BillinBallard, 22 March 2025 - 08:47 PM.

[zjc26138]

So I keep my scopes in my basement. mainly because there is no room elsewhere in my house for storing astro gear.  I had the TMB130 on a shelf, and shelf height is around 6 feet. Well I'm going to have to add another shelf at maybe only 3 or 4 feet height because I cannot reasonably put the AP6" with its case on the 6 foot tall shelf.    The case with the scope isn't heavy, but it is awkward length combine with my short arms is not a winning combo.

[zjc26138]

Of course there is AP152 Starfire in the classifieds right now for a very good price...the chase never ends.

[Phillip Creed]

On the question of chromatic aberration -- 

When Roland Christen designed this he didn't have ED glass.  It's a triplet with a special low-dispersion flint roughly akin to ~6" f/20 standard achromatic doublet.  That's FAR less CA than your standard 6" f/8 achromatic doublet, but it is there.

That being said, I'd just use thread in a 2" mild minus-violet filter into the diagonal and call it good.  Emphasize, "mild".  A Baader Fringe Killer, Semi-Apo filter or a cheap yellow filter is overkill and will cause more problems than it solves.

Think something like a 2" Lumicon minus-violet filter if you can find one.  There's probably still plenty floating around.  I know the Wilderness Center (SW Stark County, Ohio) has one for their 6" f/8 AP Christen triplet (I should know; I bought one and then donated it to them).

 

The Lumicon MV filter's color balance shift isn't that much.  Neither is its "aggressiveness" in removing violet / "blue bloat".  But given the scope's design, it doesn't have to be.  And it will improve the images.
 

And that's really all you need.  This scope is an Astrophysics scope.  Not that you'd ever forget that but it WILL remind you.  Get a steady enough night and it's a bottomless pit of magnification.  Stack the barlows for 600X?  It won't care.  If it could talk, it'd laugh.

Clear Skies,

Phil

[Scott99]

So I keep my scopes in my basement. mainly because there is no room elsewhere in my house for storing astro gear.  I had the TMB130 on a shelf, and shelf height is around 6 feet. Well I'm going to have to add another shelf at maybe only 3 or 4 feet height because I cannot reasonably put the AP6" with its case on the 6 foot tall shelf.    The case with the scope isn't heavy, but it is awkward length combine with my short arms is not a winning combo.

Shall I state the obvious solution?   Post a classified ad 

 

That f/9 Starfire does look nice...just have to deal with the local pick-up requirement I guess.

Edited by Scott99, 24 March 2025 - 10:08 AM.

[Terra Nova]

Congratulations Zach! You have acquired what for many of us is a Holy Grail telescope. I don’t recollect ever seeing one in person, let alone looking for one, although for a long time I had a lookout for the smaller 4” F8 Starfire. Alas, that time has come and gone for me. I’m glad you landed a big elusive fish!

[zjc26138]

Shall I state the obvious solution?   Post a classified ad 

 

That f/9 Starfire does look nice...just have to deal with the local pick-up requirement I guess.

I am tempted lol. I think I'll just keep the AP 6" for a while and save my pennies.

[zjc26138]

On the question of chromatic aberration -- 

When Roland Christen designed this he didn't have ED glass.  It's a triplet with a special low-dispersion flint roughly akin to ~6" f/20 standard achromatic doublet.  That's FAR less CA than your standard 6" f/8 achromatic doublet, but it is there.

That being said, I'd just use thread in a 2" mild minus-violet filter into the diagonal and call it good.  Emphasize, "mild".  A Baader Fringe Killer, Semi-Apo filter or a cheap yellow filter is overkill and will cause more problems than it solves.

Think something like a 2" Lumicon minus-violet filter if you can find one.  There's probably still plenty floating around.  I know the Wilderness Center (SW Stark County, Ohio) has one for their 6" f/8 AP Christen triplet (I should know; I bought one and then donated it to them).

 

The Lumicon MV filter's color balance shift isn't that much.  Neither is its "aggressiveness" in removing violet / "blue bloat".  But given the scope's design, it doesn't have to be.  And it will improve the images.
 

And that's really all you need.  This scope is an Astrophysics scope.  Not that you'd ever forget that but it WILL remind you.  Get a steady enough night and it's a bottomless pit of magnification.  Stack the barlows for 600X?  It won't care.  If it could talk, it'd laugh.

Clear Skies,

Phil

Good suggestion!

 

Looks like Farpoint has one in stock for 100.   https://farpointastr...GfLDX8H6FU8wHDf

 

Also some on ebay for a little less.

[RAKing]

Congrats on the "new" refractor.  I am sure it will work well for you, but I am sad that you had to give up your TMB 130 to get it.

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

[zjc26138]

Congrats on the "new" refractor.  I am sure it will work well for you, but I am sad that you had to give up your TMB 130 to get it.

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

 

Yeah not the best trade off for me, but the TMB served me well over the last 14 years.  It was an outreach darling, giving many their first views of Saturn and Jupiter. It was great for deep sky imaging too. Hundreds of images over the years. Lots of good memories!