22 replies to this topic

[LostInLEO]

Howdy,

After few years of visual observation with the "stock" Celestron Plossl eyepieces I am ready to upgrade my eyepiece collection....and hopefully improve visuals

My current telescope setup is:

-SkyWatcher Explorer 305PDS (Newtonian, f/5)

-SkyWatcher SkyMax 180 Pro (Mak, f/15) - gold tube

-SkyWatcher StarTraveler 120 (Acro, f5) - used as an "enhanced finder" and for public events

 

I usually get to observe for few nights every 3-4 months (when I go home during Uni breaks) and a bit more over the summer (astro club meetings, astro summer camps).

 

Form following this and other forums over the last few years, one of the most commonly recommended (cost to performance) and all-rounded eyepieces are BST StarGuiders (aka. Paradigm). I have been considering those at first, but I have been presented with an option to purchase a set of secondhand Baader Hyperions for a good price. I'm considering those two options, because of the discount I would get, if I buy eyepieces in set.

 

Things as I see them right now:

 

StarGuiders:

+good f/5 performance

+versatile

+a bit cheaper

-60 deg FOV (compared to Hyperion)

 

Hyperions:

+68 deg FOV

+1.25'' and 2.00'' options

+option to mount camera directly on the eyepiece

+a bit better upgrade path (can repurpose them for only Mak observations, when I opt for a better gear for Newtonian later)

-not as good f/5 performance

-a bit more expensive

 

In case I opt for Hyperions, I would use coma corrector to compensate for the poor edge performance (already got coma corrector for Newtonian).

 

Please share if anyone have direct comparison experience between both type of eyepieces. I am also interested to hear how is Hyperions' visual performance in 2'' configuration (with the lower lens assembly removed).

Would be grateful if you can please let me know your thoughts.

 

I know most of "hard core" visual guys will suggest rather more professional gear, but my goal is to create an intermediate collection of eyepieces, before I invest in more professional eyepieces after Uni (when will have more frequent access to my equipment and...budget permits).

 

Clear skies

[havasman]

I would choose the Starguiders over Hyperions any time. Only in your f15 scope would performance likely even be close. I have used the Starguiders and their fine performance surprised me. I never tried a Hyperion because my highest focal ratio scope is f8 and their reputation has never encouraged experimentation.

[CrazyPanda]

StarGuiders:

+good f/5 performance

+versatile

+a bit cheaper

-60 deg FOV (compared to Hyperion)

 

This depends on the focal length.

 

25mm, 18mm, and surprisingly the 3.2mm starguiders are iffy at F/6 and therefore worse at F/5.

 

15mm, 12mm, 8mm, and 5mm are great.

Edited by CrazyPanda, 18 March 2025 - 03:10 PM.

[NiteGuy]

It's rare that anyone needs or uses every single eyepiece in an entire "set". What ever the offer is that you have, if it were me, I'd be much more inclined to take that same amount of $$$ and purchase 1 or 2 "used" premium (Nagler, Morpheus, Pentax, etc.) eyepieces with wider fields and better corrected edges and then add more down the road. The 74 to 86 or so degree apparent fields of view will be much more immersive and enjoyable, especially if your choice has nice (18 to 20mm) eye relief.

 

1 premium eyepiece is worth more than 6 average eyepieces (I said that). 

 

Avoid future hassles...buy once and be done with it.

[The Cloud Gazer]

The 21 and 17 mm Hyperion will be good in all your scopes, the 10mm maybe, haven’t heard from someone using it at f5 but it is one of my favourite Hyperion. The 21mm would have the advantage of giving you a 32mm in your f/15 by removing the smyth group.

Never tried a starguider but most of them have a good reputation (look which focal length before buying).

[LostInLEO]

Thank you for all replies.

 

For the StarGuiders I have been considering:

-25mm

-18mm

-13mm

-8mm

Each for about 55€ (60$)+postage.

 

Offer on Hyperion is for:

-21mm

-17mm

-13mm

-8mm

Each for about 75€ (82$) each.

 

@NiteGuy: I would love to get few second hand premium eyepieces, but right now this is out of my budget. I would rather prefer to get 4 or 5 medium quality eyepieces that cover more focal lengths, as I usually borrow my gear to HS students in our astronomy club, while I am at Uni, so those guys can get more experience in astronomy and test the grounds before buying their own gear. And I also plan to probably passed them down to one of those younger astronomers when I upgrade to premium eyepieces.

 

Does any of you know how quality of Hyperions fares in 2'' setup (with the 1.25'' removed)?

Edited by LostInLEO, 18 March 2025 - 06:13 PM.

[SeattleScott]

The Hyperions perform quite poorly with the 1.25” portion removed, although performance wasn’t bad at F14. You just have to get used to dealing with basically negative eye relief. It was an interesting experiment. The other issue is it is a great way to get dust inside your eyepiece. Technically I used an LVW, not Hyperion, but same idea. The 1.25” barrel is there for a reason. Removing it opens up the view, but edge correction goes to heck without a very slow scope, and it feels like you almost have to climb inside the eyepiece in order to see the entire view at once. So it is really better for an “immersive” experience, where you don’t bother trying to get close enough to see the whole view. Besides, you probably don’t want to see all the way to the edge anyway because of the poor edge correction.

There isn’t a 13mm Paradigm/Starguider. So that’s either a typo, or it’s a different brand eyepiece. I think I have maybe seen some TMB Planetary II clones labeled as Starguider. Could be hard to tell what you really have. Sort of like three SVBONY zooms with the same model number. If you can successfully confuse people enough, they just buy one of each to make sure they get the right one.

The 25 and 18 Starguider are considered weak links and won’t perform well in fast scopes. The 8 is considered good and we don’t know what the 13 is.

As for the Hyperions, the 21 and 17 are considered good, the 13 is considered poor, and in Ernest’s bench tests, the 8 got a pretty good score, but the 8 in the Celestron branded version scored poorly, so who knows? Overall it seems like people mostly like the 8?

[LDW47]

The set of Hyperions I owned worked great in either 1.25" or 2" with my various size refractors, the problem is I upgraded to a set of Morpheus eps after a month and kept the 31mm Aspheric to go with them but its a different design than the smaller size Hyperions. They are the best after owning TV's, OMNI'S and several other mix and match's. I would go with the Hyperions if the Morpheus are too steep a go.

Edited by LDW47, 18 March 2025 - 06:36 PM.

[SeattleScott]

The set of Hyperions I owned worked great in either 1.25" or 2" with my various size refractors, the problem is I upgraded to a set of Morpheus eps after a month and kept the 31mm Aspheric to go with them but its a different design than the smaller size Hyperions. They are the best after owning TV's, OMNI'S and several other mix and match's. I would go with the Hyperions if the Morpheus are too steep a go.

He wasn’t asking about using 1.25” or 2” barrel. He was asking about using Hyperion without the lower 1.25” portion.

[LDW47]

He wasn’t asking about using 1.25” or 2” barrel. He was asking about using Hyperion without the lower 1.25” portion.

I gave him my story, he can take what he wants from it, eh. Its a pretty simple read, ya think. Take your thoughts up with the OP, eh.

[SeattleScott]

I gave him my story, he can take what he wants from it, eh. Its a pretty simple read, ya think. Take your thoughts up with the OP, eh.

I get that, I just didn’t want him to think that the Hyperions work just as well without the 1.25” barrel. Which isn’t what you said, but wanted to clarify in case there was any confusion.

[LDW47]

I get that, I just didn’t want him to think that the Hyperions work just as well without the 1.25” barrel. Which isn’t what you said, but wanted to clarify in case there was any confusion.

I only had them for about a month, I don't recall any glaring issues when using them in the 2" mode. If the OP has any concerns maybe just stay away from the Hyperions. I liked the views but I wanted the higher end 76° Morph's not because of any decernible issues but I'm not a picky observer. I think I still own a couple of StarGuiders in the higher powers, they are a nice ep but nothing like a Hyperion, I use them on a limited basis.  PS:  I wanted the StarGuiders for a specific refractor, as I think of it.

Edited by LDW47, 18 March 2025 - 07:14 PM.

[Jon Isaacs]

My two cents:

 

I have all the Paradigms except the 15 mm.  I pretty much agree with Crazy Panda. The 25 mm is not sharp off-axis in at F/5-F/8. The 18 mm is better but not great. The 12 mm, 8 mm and 5 mm are quite good.

 

The 3.2 mm is not as good as the 5 mm but it's not too bad. I use them all as a set.

 

I disagree about buying a couple of premium eyepieces rather than full sets of good quality eyepieces.

 

The most important thing about an eyepiece is it's focal length, it determines the magnification and exit pupil. With only two eyepieces, it rather drastically reduces your choice of objects. 

 

I'd rather take out my set of Paradigms than any two of my more premium eyepieces, Morpheus's, Naglers, Ethos/XWAs.

 

To advise you, I'd want to know more about cost. 

 

Jon

[LostInLEO]

Lots of helpful and insightful info guys. Thank you a lot. Keep it coming tho

 

@SeattleScott: Thanks for catching typo. StarGuider I though of was indeed 12mm and not 13mm. I apologize. If I am to buy StarGuider, I will buy them of FLO (prices of other EU suppliers are almost 2x of FLO's). And also have to support all hard work of those guys with giving advice.

Thanks for a feedback on 2'' Hyperion setup. This may be stupid to ask, but what are your thoughts on an idea, of mounting camera (probably not DLSR tho) on Hyperion without 1.25'' segment?

 

@LDW47: How is quality of 31mm Aspheric from your experience (in case I would add that one to the set sometime in the future)? I know they are using different optical train for those (compared to Hyperions).

 

@Jon Isaacs: Sure. Costs per eyepiece are:

-StarGuider: 55€ (60$) 

-Hyperion: 75€ (82$)

 

Has anyone got experience with using StarGuiders on SCT or Mak telescopes (f/10 and higher)? I am curious to know how they do...especially for planetary.

 

Another clarification is also in place. I use Netwonian mostly for DSO, while Mak is planets and Moon (and sometimes globular star clusters).

[SeattleScott]

I understand the Hyperions have threads under the eyecup to be able to attach certain cameras. There wouldn’t be any need to remove the 1.25” portion to do this. Honestly, removing the 1.25” portion makes the eyepiece rather top heavy. I would be nervous about attaching any kind of heavy camera without the 1.25” portion attached. It just would make it awfully heavy without a very long barrel. Good way to break a camera. Alas, I have never tried afocal imaging other than with a cell phone, so I can’t speak to how the Hyperions do with that, with or without the 1.25” portion. I know it is an advertising feature but that’s all.

The 31 Hyperion has a poor reputation in fast scopes. The 30UFF is cheaper and far better corrected. I have the SkyRover version.

[sevenofnine]

Welcome to C/N! 

 

+1 on the Astro-Tech Paradigm/Agena Starguider ED's. I replaced all of my basic plossls with these and they are fine in all of my scopes (f/5.9, f/7, f/12). The eyepieces all offer good ER and large eye lenses with twist up eye cups. I tried one and eventually bought the whole set. Good luck! 

[The Cloud Gazer]

I understand the Hyperions have threads under the eyecup to be able to attach certain cameras. There wouldn’t be any need to remove the 1.25” portion to do this. Honestly, removing the 1.25” portion makes the eyepiece rather top heavy. I would be nervous about attaching any kind of heavy camera without the 1.25” portion attached. It just would make it awfully heavy without a very long barrel. Good way to break a camera. Alas, I have never tried afocal imaging other than with a cell phone, so I can’t speak to how the Hyperions do with that, with or without the 1.25” portion. I know it is an advertising feature but that’s all.

The 31 Hyperion has a poor reputation in fast scopes. The 30UFF is cheaper and far better corrected. I have the SkyRover version.

I do not understand, the 1.25” portion is anyway quite light. I attached a small camera with the right adapter ring and it worked well 👍. If anything I think one should fasten the eyepiece using the 2" skirt in this case, it does not matter if the 1.25 nosepiece is in or not.

Agreed for the poor performance of the 31mm at f5 (had it at f6 and it wasnt pretty). In my f7.7 the hyperion is really not that bad though. At f9 id say it is really good. On axis sharpness is better than in my (amazing) 28 UWA for example.

Agreed about the 30UFF it is a better choice anyway (cheaper and works in whatever scope). I have it since not too long but have been very impressed. The only advantage of the 30 hyperion is weight at this point.

At such a price the OP can have on the hyperions I would jump on the 21 and 17 and a 14mm tuning ring to make the 17 a 13mm 80° eyepiece. The 8 as well would be nice to have, most people liked it, I think I had a lemon since I was not convinced.

Then again I do not know about the starguiders but for the hyp that is a serious price reduction.

Edited by The Cloud Gazer, 19 March 2025 - 02:49 AM.

[LostInLEO]

Awesome, thank you very much y'all! Appreciate it alot.

 

I think I will get a set of StarGuiders, due to overall versatility and better quality on faster scopes. Will also be able to budget an extra eyepiece.

Will opt for the following:

-25mm (I know it's not the best quality, but I think it will still be an improvement over my current stock Celestron 32mm Plossl)

-15mm

-12mm

-8mm

-5mm

 

This may be a bit out of topic, but planning for the future upgrades, would you recommend Focal extender over Barlow (especially for the planetary-visual and photo with planetary camera)?

[PJBilotta]

You'll hear a lot of advice here that says, "save up and buy premium eyepieces", but the simple reality is that this isn't feasible when you're on a budget - nor is it wise. You should set your budget, stick to it, and put together a good set within it. There's nothing worse than investing $200 or $300 in the eyepiece of your dreams, and then having to sell it to pay for a car repair. Use and enjoy your affordable set until you can comfortably afford the next step up.

When I was at your point, I gradually invested in a set of used Ultima Plossls, which showed me amazing wonders for 20+ years. They were excellent,and were all I needed until I could comfortably afford more. They're still coveted today, and are a razor sharp as any premium eyepiece. They were $40-$50 each used. The whole set cost me $350 with a Barlow, so I couldn't even justify selling them in those years when I never had time to observe (jobs and kids will do that to you). I'm forever grateful that I didn't spend too much, because they were there on the rare occasion I could get out, and a modest enough investment that I could justify keeping them, despite the bills coming due.

As several others have recommended, I think the Starguiders are a great choice. One of their strengths is that they are 60 degrees - wide enough to feel immersive, but narrow enough that they will be pretty good in your f/5 scopes. They'll work well in all your scopes - f/5 Newtonian, f/15 Mak and f/5 achro. They're also small, lightweight, comfortable to look through, and extremely affordable. What's not to love?

Use and enjoy them for 5+ years, and see how your interest in this pursuit waxes and wanes. If you're like me and many others, you're likely to find that job, friends, partner, kids make it a lucky night when you can get out on a clear night at all. You'll be glad you have nice enough eyepieces that didn't cost a fortune, won't feel guilty about having expensive ones you aren't using enough (a real hobby killer), and enjoy them when you can. Starguiders are great for this.

You can always upgrade later when you can afford to, but for now, good enough is good enough - and the Starguiders are better than good enough.

Edited by PJBilotta, 23 March 2025 - 12:11 AM.

[LDW47]

I know its kind of late but I did have some pretty nice success with a full set of Celestron XCell LX's and that lines 2x and 3x barlows. I kept the 25mm for use with my solar scopes and good change with my refractors.

Edited by LDW47, 23 March 2025 - 11:14 AM.

[LostInLEO]

@PJBilotta Thanks for sharing! Yes I am in a bit similar situation. I fully agree that I should rather more get a variety of mid-range eyepieces for now. I have been using a set of Celestron Plossls that I've got with my first telescope for 10+ years now. I am not all that frequent astronomer (few nights every 3 months or so, a lot more during summer break), as I am studying abroad. But I think I have got most of what I could, out of those eyepieces. I know premium eyepieces are neither within my budget, nor I can not justify frequent enough use right now. So something mi-range is the way to go for me.

My upgrade path as of now is:

-Step 1: upgrade lower focal length eyepieces (sub 20mm), as FOV of those Plossls can be struggle at best

-Step 2: upgrade higher focal length eyepieces, preferably going for 2" for those

-Step 3: upgrading Barlow or opting for Focal reducer

-Step 4: visual filters (UHC, O-III, perhaps H-Beta)

 

@LDW47 yes I was initially looking at those as well. But I went for the StarGuiders due to (hefty) discount FLO offers by buying set of StarGuiders. Thanks for the recommendation tho.

 

I was also lucky enough to find an "external investor" (thanks mom ) to cover for the other 3 eyepieces I was not planning to buy in the first place. I placed an order with FLO a few days ago. Will keep y'all posted when I receive the eyepieces and get to test them.

[LDW47]

@PJBilotta Thanks for sharing! Yes I am in a bit similar situation. I fully agree that I should rather more get a variety of mid-range eyepieces for now. I have been using a set of Celestron Plossls that I've got with my first telescope for 10+ years now. I am not all that frequent astronomer (few nights every 3 months or so, a lot more during summer break), as I am studying abroad. But I think I have got most of what I could, out of those eyepieces. I know premium eyepieces are neither within my budget, nor I can not justify frequent enough use right now. So something mi-range is the way to go for me.

My upgrade path as of now is:

-Step 1: upgrade lower focal length eyepieces (sub 20mm), as FOV of those Plossls can be struggle at best

-Step 2: upgrade higher focal length eyepieces, preferably going for 2" for those

-Step 3: upgrading Barlow or opting for Focal reducer

-Step 4: visual filters (UHC, O-III, perhaps H-Beta)

 

@LDW47 yes I was initially looking at those as well. But I went for the StarGuiders due to (hefty) discount FLO offers by buying set of StarGuiders. Thanks for the recommendation tho.

 

I was also lucky enough to find an "external investor" (thanks mom ) to cover for the other 3 eyepieces I was not planning to buy in the first place. I placed an order with FLO a few days ago. Will keep y'all posted when I receive the eyepieces and get to test them.

Mom pulls through again, lol !  Thats what our mom's are for, right.

[LostInLEO]

@LDW47 I think it's more of a "return on investment" consideration (many hours of tranquility for a price of only 3 eyepieces) (jk)