21 replies to this topic

[lanndonkane]

Can these be seen visually? Kind of what the galaxy is famous for. It is magnitude 11 so not terrible dim. But I’ve never seen a good visual description of them?

[Keith Rivich]

Can these be seen visually? Kind of what the galaxy is famous for. It is magnitude 11 so not terrible dim. But I’ve never seen a good visual description of them?

Not sure I am following your thought process: NGC 4753 doesn't have a dark lane. 

[havasman]

I looked hard for them and never had success. Gottlieb did with his 18" and it's a fair assumption that Lowrey has with his 48" though he didn't note it that I have seen but they and that gear's diff.

https://adventuresin... 4001-5000.html

 

And I don't know what those are exactly.

Edited by havasman, 19 March 2025 - 11:38 PM.

[lanndonkane]

Not sure I am following your thought process: NGC 4753 doesn't have a dark lane.

It does, they’ve got a muted Centaurus A vibe

Edited by lanndonkane, 19 March 2025 - 11:58 PM.

[12BH7]

Many of these finer features can only be brought out with astrophotography. Even the DSS image just barely shows a lane. And of course the HST image is spectacular. 

 

In 35 years I've only seen a handful of galaxies with dust lanes with a 16" scope under some very dark skies. 

[lanndonkane]

Many of these finer features can only be brought out with astrophotography. Even the DSS image just barely shows a lane. And of course the HST image is spectacular.

In 35 years I've only seen a handful of galaxies with dust lanes with a 16" scope under some very dark skies.

I thought I’d ask because I’ve seen some pretty amazing observations of things I would have expected to be only photographic being posted here over the years.

[Keith Rivich]

It does, they’ve got a muted Centaurus A vibe

Gotcha. I'll take a look this coming new moon from our dark site. Never know!

[KTAZ]

I'm not a huge visual guy, but I still recall seeing a dark lane in M82 with a 9.25" SCT in B3 skies. Unforgettable!

[dhferguson]

Cheers,

 

Here's an image I collected of NGC 4753: C8 Edge, x0.7 reducer, ASI2600MC, AVX mount. The total exposure time was 76 min under Bortle 6.5 skies.

 

Note the faint dust lanes. I think most'd have difficulty seeing them visually: maybe a 16" or larger Dob under Bortle 4 or better skies?

 

Happy observing always,

 

Don

 

Attached Thumbnails

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[BrentKnight]

Here is an Astronomical Journal paper that I found about the lanes in NGC 4753 and how they might have formed.

 

This object was very difficult for my early attempts at EAA back in 2022.  I'll need to revisit it soon - thanks for the mention.

[Keith Rivich]

Cheers,

 

Here's an image I collected of NGC 4753: C8 Edge, x0.7 reducer, ASI2600MC, AVX mount. The total exposure time was 76 min under Bortle 6.5 skies.

 

Note the faint dust lanes. I think most'd have difficulty seeing them visually: maybe a 16" or larger Dob under Bortle 4 or better skies?

 

Happy observing always,

 

Don

Very subtle

[lanndonkane]

I was doing a bit of poking around youtube and reddit on this subject, and concidentally, this report was posted on youtube just a few days ago: 

https://www.youtube....h?v=2wZ8Ul6H8gk

makes it seem like the lanes are handily apparent in an 8 inch scope in half decent conditions...

[Redbetter]

I looked hard for them and never had success. Gottlieb did with his 18" and it's a fair assumption that Lowrey has with his 48" though he didn't note it that I have seen but they and that gear's diff.

https://adventuresin... 4001-5000.html

 

And I don't know what those are exactly.

Just a clarification here.

 

Steve wrote:

 

18" (5/28/06): very bright, very large, the halo increases to a large bright core.  The halo appears irregular in shape with averted vision with a strong impression of a low surface brightness extension on the southeast side and a less-defined extension to the northwest.

He didn't describe the dust lanes as observed from what I can tell.  Instead after that he wrote:  "On images, this distorted galaxy has very unusual chaotic, twisted dust lanes and disc, with a much fainter outer halo inclined to the main body."

 

The dust lane contrast does not appear to be that great and the line widths are quite small (a few arc seconds.)  This likely is a test of seeing as much as anything else.  In sharp seeing the contrast will be considerably better at this scale.

[havasman]

Just a clarification here.

 

Steve wrote:

 

He didn't describe the dust lanes as observed from what I can tell.  Instead after that he wrote:  "On images, this distorted galaxy has very unusual chaotic, twisted dust lanes and disc, with a much fainter outer halo inclined to the main body."

 

The dust lane contrast does not appear to be that great and the line widths are quite small (a few arc seconds.)  This likely is a test of seeing as much as anything else.  In sharp seeing the contrast will be considerably better at this scale.

Ah, jeez. You are absolutely correct. I'm getting worse about skimming when I think I'm reading. Thanks for the correction. 

[Redbetter]

I took a look at the galaxy again two nights ago.  I didn't see any clear sign of the lanes in the 20" at various magnifications.  Seeing was mediocre, but not bad. Later when the seeing was peaking, I was resolving Vesta's ~0.5 arc second disk, although it was still dancing about in the seeing.

 

A person who can see the lanes well enough to sketch them in an 8" must have real talent for detecting small contrast differences, and very steady skies.  I wish I had both.

[lanndonkane]

I took a look at the galaxy again two nights ago.  I didn't see any clear sign of the lanes in the 20" at various magnifications.  Seeing was mediocre, but not bad. Later when the seeing was peaking, I was resolving Vesta's ~0.5 arc second disk, although it was still dancing about in the seeing.

 

A person who can see the lanes well enough to sketch them in an 8" must have real talent for detecting small contrast differences, and very steady skies.  I wish I had both.

thx for checking!!

[uwe_glahn]

They are visible. Just need a bigger telescope, steady seeing and dark skies.

 

sketch: 27", 293x, NELM 6m5+, Seeing III

Edited by uwe_glahn, 25 March 2025 - 12:23 PM.

[Epick Crom]

They are visible. Just need a bigger telescope, steady seeing and dark skies.

 

sketch: 27", 293x, NELM 6m5+, Seeing III

What an amazing sketch 

[J Lowrey]

Like Uwe said they are visible in a dark sky.  I remember seeing them in my old 25" from 20 years ago. Wow were did the time go. In the 48" they are easy to see and extended with AV.

[JayinUT]

This is my sketch from 4/21/2012 in my 14" dob.  NGC 4753 Type I0 galaxy in Virgo; Date: 4/21/12; Time: 10:45pm MDT or 4/22/12, 04:45 UT; Antoniadi I, clear, mild; Size: 4.1'x2.3'; Mag. 9.9; 14" dob with 14mm & 10mm Pentax XW, sketched with the 10mm Pentax XW at 165x.

Notes:
This is a rather large galaxy that sits west to east, somewhat uneven across outer halo. Has a large bright core with a non-stellar nucleus. This is a nice galaxy to be on the list to observe for the details it offers up. 

 

I did not see dust lanes in the 14". 

 

[CrazyPanda]

Cheers,

 

Here's an image I collected of NGC 4753: C8 Edge, x0.7 reducer, ASI2600MC, AVX mount. The total exposure time was 76 min under Bortle 6.5 skies.

 

Note the faint dust lanes. I think most'd have difficulty seeing them visually: maybe a 16" or larger Dob under Bortle 4 or better skies?

 

Happy observing always,

 

Don

When I was doing the H400 list in my 15" in B4 skies, this was my note for this galaxy:

 

"Modest size. Diffuse gradient. Faint nucleus intermittent. No detail or structure. Elongated shaped. Moderate difficulty."

[BrentKnight]

They are visible. Just need a bigger telescope, steady seeing and dark skies.

 

sketch: 27", 293x, NELM 6m5+, Seeing III

I revisited my capture of this galaxy made with a Celestron C8 in 2022 to compare with Uwe's excellent sketch.  The galaxy is quite extended but I needed to tone down the stretch to bring out the dark material structure throughout.  I think my image and the sketch match really well (including the cross-shaped appearance of the halo).  From notes by Steve Gottlieb, I learned that Harold Knox-Shaw, using the 30" Reynolds reflector at the Helwan Observatory in Egypt, was the first to notice the dark lanes.

 

 

NGC4753 | Celestron C8 + ASI294MM-Pro

 

 

NGC4753 | Uwe Glahn using a 27" F/4.2 reflector