42 replies to this topic

[Arkade]

I have seen this scope, The Starwave ASCENT 115mm F7 EDT APO FPL51 ED and Lanthanum glass refractor brings you triplet ED level for £1300. It is a similar price to the 120 skywatchers ed ds, The Evostar 120 ED-DS-PRO ED doublet refractor features an extra-low dispersion ED glass element equal to FPL-53

triplets are good for imaging, I've read but I'm only using it for visual but since it is fpl51 and triplet and the sw is fpl53 and doublet, what would be better for visual id anyone has an idea please, in layman terms as it is rather confusing.

Thank you

[Arkade]

It will show some false color visually. A comp would be the AT102ED, which has equivalent glass and is F7. So a bit faster F ratio but less aperture. This scope would probably have a touch more FC as the aperture increase seems bigger than the F ratio increase. My impression is people are generally happy with the AT102ED for the price, but have no real illusions about it being just as good visually as the AT102EDL.

It really just depends on if you want good, mostly color corrected views for a great price, or if you want to pay a premium for essentially color free views. The FPL51 will deliver nice views with refractor clarity. The views just won’t be as perfect as they would be with better glass, particularly when viewing bright objects. Ideally you could look through both yourself but probably not feasible.

Thanks. I compare my 80mm ed apo to 100mm acheo and used to think the achro was amazing before the 80mm....so jumping up to a bigger scope, I want to be sure it is an improvement as I love the image quality in the 80mm ed apo verses 130mm newt and 127mm mak.

Appreciate the advice. I think will give the triplet a miss

[Skysmacker]

Hello,

 

I have an SW Evostar 120ED. It is excellent for visual work. I even have done some imaging with it and no complaints. I had an SW Evostar 80ED before and liked it so much I picked up the 120.

 

They have a good reputation for a reason and most people who have them really like them.

 

Just my two cents.

[Arkade]

Hello,

I have an SW Evostar 120ED. It is excellent for visual work. I even have done some imaging with it and no complaints. I had an SW Evostar 80ED before and liked it so much I picked up the 120.

They have a good reputation for a reason and most people who have them really like them.

Just my two cents.

Cool, skysmacker, how noticable was the jump from 80mm to 120mm visually?

What mount do you use for your sw 120? Just looking at what Az manual will work for such a big scope

[Skysmacker]

Jump? Well, it certainly has more aperture so details are much more abundant with the larger scope.

 

Both are excellent for views of Moon, Jupiter, and Saturn using kit 5mm EP. The most exciting difference was the ability to resolve and show detail on Mars with the 120. The dark spots from canyons and even the ice cap was discernable through it. Venus was great as a crescent and I was also able to resolve the disc of Uranus showing the greenish blue color as well. Just a lot of fun once I had more aperture. Neptune still looked like a blue star though lol. 

 

I run mine on an EQ6-R so no weight issues for my set up. If only doing visual you certainly don't need that much mount. 

 

Something like a Stellarvue M2 mount would work very well but I'm sure there are more affordable alt/az mounts out there to handle it. 

 

the OTA weight is just about 14 lbs. Being a doublet, it's relatively light weight for its size.

 

One thing to note; people often poo-poo the stock crayford focuser on these Evostar models. They certainly can seem awful if not "tuned" correctly. Both of mine took some adjustments which were very easy to make once I got into it. After I made the adjustments, these are rock solid focusers that are very smooth and I have never had any sort of slippage or sloppiness from them, even when all my imaging equipment is attached. 

 

Point being: don't let anyone steer you away from these scopes due to the focuser. They are missing information or experience because these focusers are really nice.

Edited by Skysmacker, 20 March 2025 - 12:48 PM.

[PKDfan]

Thanks. I compare my 80mm ed apo to 100mm acheo and used to think the achro was amazing before the 80mm....so jumping up to a bigger scope, I want to be sure it is an improvement as I love the image quality in the 80mm ed apo verses 130mm newt and 127mm mak.

Appreciate the advice. I think will give the triplet a miss

Its really hard to quantify Arkade how wonderfully improved the view is with the very best glass and finding an optimal ratio for the aperture you like with that glass can be tough cause its usually quite costly to get exquisite high Strehl views.

I think a 120mm upgrade would be ideal from your 80mm aperture.

Always get the best glass and go by reputation of users experience and Evostars present price is a real steal but you'll need IMO a litte better mount than an EQM-35 level. Edit for a 120mm Evostar.


Good Hunting !



CSS
Lance

Edited by PKDfan, 20 March 2025 - 01:09 PM.

[SoCalPaul]

Confession, I didn't read all the posts above so this might be repetitive...

 

A doublet is great for visual, depending of course on how well corrected it is.

 

There are a couple advantages over a triplet- weight and cooling time.

 

Some people say they can step out of their house and begin observing immediately with a doublet.

 

Triplets can take quite a while to reach a desired level of equilibrium.

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[scotsman328i]

I have seen this scope, The Starwave ASCENT 115mm F7 EDT APO FPL51 ED and Lanthanum glass refractor brings you triplet ED level for £1300. It is a similar price to the 120 skywatchers ed ds, The Evostar 120 ED-DS-PRO ED doublet refractor features an extra-low dispersion ED glass element equal to FPL-53

triplets are good for imaging, I've read but I'm only using it for visual but since it is fpl51 and triplet and the sw is fpl53 and doublet, what would be better for visual id anyone has an idea please, in layman terms as it is rather confusing.

Thank you

Arkade, 

   This is a REALLY GOOD READ on the properties of lenses and crystal used to make them. Really breaks down many questions you may have. This article was a Godsend for me years ago when I was learning more about refractors and the myriad of lenses they use today. I’m still on the lookout for a 100mm(ish) APO refractor to suit my needs, but not burning to run out and get one.

 

https://www.ianmoris...jective-lenses/

[Arkade]

Arkade,
This is a REALLY GOOD READ on the properties of lenses and crystal used to make them. Really breaks down many questions you may have. This article was a Godsend for me years ago when I was learning more about refractors and the myriad of lenses they use today. I’m still on the lookout for a 100mm(ish) APO refractor to suit my needs, but not burning to run out and get one.

https://www.ianmoris...jective-lenses/

Just had a quick look through it..it seems very helpful indeed. Thank you for that, looks like it may help answer a few questions and teach me some new info! Cheers! Def will give it a read

[scotsman328i]

Just had a quick look through it..it seems very helpful indeed. Thank you for that, looks like it may help answer a few questions and teach me some new info! Cheers! Def will give it a read

About halfway down the page, Brother. You’ll see the types and explanations given for them. Gives you a base to start your search for that ‘perfect refractor’ that suits what you want it for. Keep us posted what you get. I myself have the Televue 76. It’s a legend in its own right. I want the same apochromatic properties I’m used to, but in a 100(ish) refractor. I too saw the deal at AstroTech 102ED on sale, but just don’t know if I’d have to get used to a small degree of CA and false color with it, you know. Jury still out. My search continues. I’d like another Televue in 101 or 102, but the NP101 new is way more than I want to spend and the 102s are hard to come by…my search continues! Best of luck! 

[Arkade]

About halfway down the page, Brother. You’ll see the types and explanations given for them. Gives you a base to start your search for that ‘perfect refractor’ that suits what you want it for. Keep us posted what you get. I myself have the Televue 76. It’s a legend in its own right. I want the same apochromatic properties I’m used to, but in a 100(ish) refractor. I too saw the deal at AstroTech 102ED on sale, but just don’t know if I’d have to get used to a small degree of CA and false color with it, you know. Jury still out. My search continues. I’d like another Televue in 101 or 102, but the NP101 new is way more than I want to spend and the 102s are hard to come by…my search continues! Best of luck!

Sky-Watcher Evostar 100ED DS-Pro Outfit
Is £729 and has the diagonal,eyepiece,finder, also a focal reducer from flo but most stores in uk have it for similar price.
I have a starfield but the 80mm which doesnt state glass so probably not 53 but the 102 f7 doublet is £900 and got amazing reviews on cloudy nights and youtube even when compared to a takahashi.

I am on the same page aa you. I want something bigger but 100 seems too close to 80 and then 120 is a headache as my Az5 mount wont be able to hold a 120mm so will need to fork out at least another £500 min for just a mount then a 120mm ota

[scotsman328i]

Sky-Watcher Evostar 100ED DS-Pro Outfit
Is £729 and has the diagonal,eyepiece,finder, also a focal reducer from flo but most stores in uk have it for similar price.
I have a starfield but the 80mm which doesnt state glass so probably not 53 but the 102 f7 doublet is £900 and got amazing reviews on cloudy nights and youtube even when compared to a takahashi.

I am on the same page aa you. I want something bigger but 100 seems too close to 80 and then 120 is a headache as my Az5 mount wont be able to hold a 120mm so will need to fork out at least another £500 min for just a mount then a 120mm ota

I totally understand. I’m 56 next month and 100mm (4”) is the size I’m willing to go to now for visual observing. I don’t to AP, EAA or Smart Scope stuff. Only a visual guy. I have a 12” Truss Dob I’ll end up selling to someone in my club or area during the summer probably also. I’m cutting back to an 8” Dob, 4” frac, 3” frac and my Coronado PST Double Stack. The big guns are done for me. I want ease of carry, set up, break down and transport now. 

[Arkade]

I totally understand. I’m 56 next month and 100mm (4”) is the size I’m willing to go to now for visual observing. I don’t to AP, EAA or Smart Scope stuff. Only a visual guy. I have a 12” Truss Dob I’ll end up selling to someone in my club or area during the summer probably also. I’m cutting back to an 8” Dob, 4” frac, 3” frac and my Coronado PST Double Stack. The big guns are done for me. I want ease of carry, set up, break down and transport now.

You kmow what...i used to complain carrying my sw gti x with a 80mm apo and a 127 mak on it, back breaking.

Its true, i think a 120 and plus a huge mount will make life harder.

May aswell just spend 730£ and get 100sw ed. Otherwise, it will end up to be over 2 grand for 20mm more...where i already have 80 so lets go to 100,plus im sure the glass will be better

[scotsman328i]

You kmow what...i used to complain carrying my sw gti x with a 80mm apo and a 127 mak on it, back breaking.

Its true, i think a 120 and plus a huge mount will make life harder.

May aswell just spend 730£ and get 100sw ed. Otherwise, it will end up to be over 2 grand for 20mm more...where i already have 80 so lets go to 100,plus im sure the glass will be better

Yeah man, it’s staggering how many pounds a few extra millimeters will cost you in aperture with refractors. Just look at the weight difference between the Televue 101 and Televue 127!…for 26mm?. LOL! I mean, it is what it is when it comes to aperture and I got that, but not for me anymore. That’s why I stay alt/az also. All these barbells, counter weights, mount heads, power packs, computers etc. Naa…not with this lower back from my service years in the Army anymore. However it totally depends what you still want out of the hobby. Some refuse to give up their Astrophotography rigs and more power to them. I got a guy who is 74 in our club STILL transporting, setting up, breaking down and packing up an 18” Obsession completely on his own. Says he wants no help as it messes up his system of set up and break down. I think that’s a real warrior of the hobby right there, I really do….but again…nope! Not me! 

[PKDfan]

You kmow what...i used to complain carrying my sw gti x with a 80mm apo and a 127 mak on it, back breaking.

Its true, i think a 120 and plus a huge mount will make life harder.

May aswell just spend 730£ and get 100sw ed. Otherwise, it will end up to be over 2 grand for 20mm more...where i already have 80 so lets go to 100,plus im sure the glass will be better

I think you'll find the 100ED worth every penny Arkade.

4inches seems to bring just enough aperture brightness to have extremely rewarding high power views.

Their sale ends soon i think.


Good Luck !


CSS
Lance

[Arkade]

Yeah man, it’s staggering how many pounds a few extra millimeters will cost you in aperture with refractors. Just look at the weight difference between the Televue 101 and Televue 127!…for 26mm?. LOL! I mean, it is what it is when it comes to aperture and I got that, but not for me anymore. That’s why I stay alt/az also. All these barbells, counter weights, mount heads, power packs, computers etc. Naa…not with this lower back from my service years in the Army anymore. However it totally depends what you still want out of the hobby. Some refuse to give up their Astrophotography rigs and more power to them. I got a guy who is 74 in our club STILL transporting, setting up, breaking down and packing up an 18” Obsession completely on his own. Says he wants no help as it messes up his system of set up and break down. I think that’s a real warrior of the hobby right there, I really do….but again…nope! Not me!

I think with any hobby, people can get obsessed and then end up losing the reason they fell in love with it in the first place
I'm so new to this so my memory is so fresh of using a Amazon 70 mm toy not knowing what I'm looking at and trying to find Venus. No idea about apps or anything to do with astronomy. Fell into it by accident but just looking out and seeing stars, how amazing.

People forget how amazing it is. If there was a tunnel half a mile deep, people would be fascinated. Look up and it is practically endless, biggest things well ever see in our lives.

I've realised with other hobbies to take this slow. I'm trying my best as I've found sometimes you stop enjoying something because you want to get "better", or I'm guessing take better pics. I don't know when I'm going to die and this hobby slows me down, it is relaxing looking up, learning at a slow pace .. looking back months and realising I'm learning without even realising and especially now, when I speak to people, so many have never used a telescope . I've had two men, both fairly old use my telescope and the joy they got, it was just worth it to see them so happy..

Anyway. Forgot my point lol.

[PKDfan]

I think with any hobby, people can get obsessed and then end up losing the reason they fell in love with it in the first place
I'm so new to this so my memory is so fresh of using a Amazon 70 mm toy not knowing what I'm looking at and trying to find Venus. No idea about apps or anything to do with astronomy. Fell into it by accident but just looking out and seeing stars, how amazing.

People forget how amazing it is. If there was a tunnel half a mile deep, people would be fascinated. Look up and it is practically endless, biggest things well ever see in our lives.

I've realised with other hobbies to take this slow. I'm trying my best as I've found sometimes you stop enjoying something because you want to get "better", or I'm guessing take better pics. I don't know when I'm going to die and this hobby slows me down, it is relaxing looking up, learning at a slow pace .. looking back months and realising I'm learning without even realising and especially now, when I speak to people, so many have never used a telescope . I've had two men, both fairly old use my telescope and the joy they got, it was just worth it to see them so happy..

Anyway. Forgot my point lol.

Lol it was about staying happy !!


CSS

[Jon Isaacs]

 

I got a guy who is 74 in our club STILL transporting, setting up, breaking down and packing up an 18” Obsession completely on his own. Says he wants no help as it messes up his system of set up and break down. I think that’s a real warrior of the hobby right there, I really do….but again…nope! Not me!

 

My observing buddy is 78 and has an 18 inch Obsession. He sets up by himself, never asks for help..  I'll be 77 in a few weeks. I setup my 16 inch by myself, never think about asking for help.

 

 

 

I observe regularly with a 22 inch but I just have to roll it in and out of the garage at our place in the high desert.

 

I do not recommend such large scopes for those just starting out but for many of us, an 8 inch or 10 inch Dob is relatively easy.

 

A 4 inch - 5 inch refractor is also a fine scope, a significant step up from an 80 mm but not as capable the larger scopes.

 

Jon

Edited by Jon Isaacs, 20 March 2025 - 06:38 PM.

[scotsman328i]

I think with any hobby, people can get obsessed and then end up losing the reason they fell in love with it in the first place
I'm so new to this so my memory is so fresh of using a Amazon 70 mm toy not knowing what I'm looking at and trying to find Venus. No idea about apps or anything to do with astronomy. Fell into it by accident but just looking out and seeing stars, how amazing.

People forget how amazing it is. If there was a tunnel half a mile deep, people would be fascinated. Look up and it is practically endless, biggest things well ever see in our lives.

I've realised with other hobbies to take this slow. I'm trying my best as I've found sometimes you stop enjoying something because you want to get "better", or I'm guessing take better pics. I don't know when I'm going to die and this hobby slows me down, it is relaxing looking up, learning at a slow pace .. looking back months and realising I'm learning without even realising and especially now, when I speak to people, so many have never used a telescope . I've had two men, both fairly old use my telescope and the joy they got, it was just worth it to see them so happy..

Anyway. Forgot my point lol.

Oh I totally get it. You got to find your niche in this hobby. You find your happiness with the instrument of choice that makes you happy doing it. There are so many different directions to go in this hobby, that hobbyist argue all the time on which way is best, what tool is best, what place to go is best and it goes on and on and on. You have to slow the brakes on it all and decide what YOU want out of it and the way YOU want to go about doing it. You’ll always have those telling you that you’re doing it wrong, or some physics equation says your wrong, or your gear is wrong etc etc. the bottom line is that it’s your love of the aspect that you wish to follow and your money you’re spending on gear and such. If you are happy and making others that don’t know anything about Astronomy happy, that’s all that matters in the end. We all won’t be here forever, and even the most expensive amateur telescopes and gear we own, we can’t take with us. 

[scotsman328i]

 

My observing buddy is 78 and has an 18 inch Obsession. He sets up by himself, never asks for help..  I'll be 77 in a few weeks. I setup my 16 inch by myself, never think about asking for help.

 

I observe regularly with a 22 inch but I just have to roll it in and out of the garage at our place in the high desert.

 

I do not recommend such large scopes for those just starting out but for many of us, an 8 inch or 10 inch Dob is relatively easy.

 

A 4 inch - 5 inch refractor is also a fine scope, a significant step up from an 80 mm but not as capable the larger scopes.

 

Jon

 

That’s great Jon. 
  After two back surgeries from crushed discs and vertebrae from my time in the Middle East, I’m kinda limited for weight limits nowadays. The older I get, the more I feel age creeping into those trouble areas with some numbness and pain. My days of carting that stuff around are gone. Had no choice when I returned about a year later in 2005, to sell my 14.5 NightSkyScopes with John Hall mirror. I even tried again a few years later in 2011 with a 12.5 Tom McGowan Midnight Telescopes, but had to let it go also. Now I have the lightest 12” scope, an Explore Scientific Discovery Gen II which I got in 2019 and has been great but I never seem get it out that much. I think I’m going to let go this summer. The Orion XT8 Plus I have has become the weight limit for Dobs. I use my 8” all the time. My service injuries have morphed me into being a refractor guy now. That’s ok, nothing wrong that at all. I love refractors too! The more elusive DSOs are done for me. I stick to the brighter ones, Lunar, Planetary and Solar observing now. 

[Arkade]

Oh I totally get it. You got to find your niche in this hobby. You find your happiness with the instrument of choice that makes you happy doing it. There are so many different directions to go in this hobby, that hobbyist argue all the time on which way is best, what tool is best, what place to go is best and it goes on and on and on. You have to slow the brakes on it all and decide what YOU want out of it and the way YOU want to go about doing it. You’ll always have those telling you that you’re doing it wrong, or some physics equation says your wrong, or your gear is wrong etc etc. the bottom line is that it’s your love of the aspect that you wish to follow and your money you’re spending on gear and such. If you are happy and making others that don’t know anything about Astronomy happy, that’s all that matters in the end. We all won’t be here forever, and even the most expensive amateur telescopes and gear we own, we can’t take with us.

Beautifully said

[Max Coe]

You may safely ignore the notion that triplets are for imaging. Good triplets are a little faster than good doublets. That's all. Likewise, FPL-53 or its equivalents will get you a slightly faster scope than FPL-51 or its equivalents. That's all. Choose your scope based on the focal ratio that you want and the cash in your pocket. Then, enjoy using it for visual or imaging.

[dnrmilspec]

That Skywatcher 100ED F9 kit with the FPL-53 glass is a real sleeper.  Tons of accessories and even a metal case.  They have been around for a long time.  At the current close out price they are a steal.  I have one and it is a great scope.  Since I have the 130 Triplet mounted I don't use it all that often.

 

You have an 8" dob which is a great deep space scope and this 4" F9 with great glass will be your go-to planetary scope I'll bet.  I have thought of selling mine a few times but just can't bring myself to do it. 

[Oldfracguy]

I have seen this scope, The Starwave ASCENT 115mm F7 EDT APO FPL51 ED and Lanthanum glass refractor brings you triplet ED level for £1300. It is a similar price to the 120 skywatchers ed ds, The Evostar 120 ED-DS-PRO ED doublet refractor features an extra-low dispersion ED glass element equal to FPL-53

triplets are good for imaging, I've read but I'm only using it for visual but since it is fpl51 and triplet and the sw is fpl53 and doublet, what would be better for visual id anyone has an idea please, in layman terms as it is rather confusing.

Thank you

Here is a clone of the Starwave ASCENT 115mm f/7 ED Triplet, the Astro-Tech AT115EDT:

 

 

 

and here is a 102mm f/7 FPL-53 Doublet:

 

 

 

Both of these scopes are essentially color-free (no visible CA).  The ED triplet that uses regular ED glass, either FPL-51 or FK-61, will usually be better corrected for Spherical Aberration than the ED Doublets that are often undercorrected.  Also, the ED Doublets that use a Lanthanum glass mating element tend to alter the overall color and cast of the views.  The colors of the components of beautiful double stars like Albireo, Almach, Izar, Iota Cancri and others are more subdued, and not as vibrant as they look in an ED Triplet with no Lanthanum glass element.

 

If price is not that much of a concern, and your mount is capable of handling a 7.3 kg (16 lb.) scope loaded up with a finder, 2" diagonal and good eyepiece, the choice would be to get the Starwave ASCENT 115mm f/7 ED Triplet. 

 

Triplets are outstanding for visual observation as well as imaging.  Just look through one and you will see.

Edited by Oldfracguy, 22 March 2025 - 07:47 PM.

[Arkade]

That Skywatcher 100ED F9 kit with the FPL-53 glass is a real sleeper. Tons of accessories and even a metal case. They have been around for a long time. At the current close out price they are a steal. I have one and it is a great scope. Since I have the 130 Triplet mounted I don't use it all that often.

You have an 8" dob which is a great deep space scope and this 4" F9 with great glass will be your go-to planetary scope I'll bet. I have thought of selling mine a few times but just can't bring myself to do it.

Visually, is a 8 inch dob much better than a 100mm apo or apo better in your opinion? I cant believe it only costs £370 new.