98 replies to this topic

[Don W]

It’s all Greek to me!

 

worchestershire sauce=wash your sister sauce

[Cotts]

I've been fighting for a losing cause on the correct pronunciation of 'kilometer' all my adult life.  The metric system prefixes are all, ALL, with no exceptions, to be pronounced with the accent on the first of the two syllables.   Thus we get MEG - a,  TER -a, MIC - ro, MILL -I, CENT -I, PET-a and so on and so forth.

 

Thus it should be KILL -o.  And, for the most part we do pronounce the prefix that way - we all say KILL - o - gram, KILL - o - watt,  KILL - o - pascal,  KILL-o-ohm (actually blends to KILL-ohm but the rule for the prefix holds)

 

But for some unfathomable reason pretty much everybody says kil - AHM - e - ter.   And pretty much everybody is wrong!!!!!  How did this even become a thing?  Bugs me.

 

Here endeth the rant.

 

Dave

[Bill Weir]

Wait, wait, wait, “the Cool Kids at the star party“, that’s a stretch. The responses to this thread seem to bear that out. 

 

Pronunciations vary all over this multicultural world. 

 

Bill

[39.1N84.5W]

GEMINI

Astronomers say Jem-n-i

Astronauts say Jem-n-ee

[TOMDEY]

Good one here >>> people who are profoundly reluctant/reticent to correctly, loudly, proudly and forcefully --- pronounce the dog breed "Shih Tzu".    Tom

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[w7ay]

But when I look at the word and what it means, I would have thought you would say it more like Ayy-chromatic. I mean, doesn't the word indicate that there have been attempts to make it have less (or no) chromatism.

 

The word apparently comes from the Greek akhromatos, and the "a" is Greek for "without."

 

https://osa.magnet.f.../etymology.html

 

I usually pronounce it the way you noted as being the correct pronunciation: "aay-chromatic," but, like Ed Ting, I also call the lens with such property an ACKro-mat :-), even though it is also supposed to be pronounced "aay-chro-mat." :-)

 

My excuse is that I am not Greek, and English is not my first language. :-P

 

But at least I pronounce Nikon as Nee-kon (after Nippon Kogaku) instead of Nai-kon, which would have made it "Naippon Kogaku."

 

Chen

Edited by w7ay, 27 March 2025 - 10:15 PM.

[w7ay]

GEMINI

Astronomers say Jem-n-i

Astronauts say Jem-n-ee

https://www.youtube....h?v=rvvn7IZWMoo

 

Chen

[WillR]

I've been fighting for a losing cause on the correct pronunciation of 'kilometer' all my adult life.  The metric system prefixes are all, ALL, with no exceptions, to be pronounced with the accent on the first of the two syllables.   Thus we get MEG - a,  TER -a, MIC - ro, MILL -I, CENT -I, PET-a and so on and so forth.

 

Thus it should be KILL -o.  And, for the most part we do pronounce the prefix that way - we all say KILL - o - gram, KILL - o - watt,  KILL - o - pascal,  KILL-o-ohm (actually blends to KILL-ohm but the rule for the prefix holds)

 

But for some unfathomable reason pretty much everybody says kil - AHM - e - ter.   And pretty much everybody is wrong!!!!!  How did this even become a thing?  Bugs me.

 

Here endeth the rant.

 

Dave

I’m not so sure everyone is wrong if everyone pronounces it a certain way. Because common usage is the final arbiter, not a rule.  You expect consistency in pronunciation in the English language? (Take the word pronunciation for example. Say that one. Why isn’t it pronounciation?)

 

If I say Kilometer with the accent on Kil, it just sounds wrong to me. I sound like an idiot. Maybe it’s pronounced differently because it’s four syllables?

 

Anyway, you seem to be approaching this from a technical, scientific angle, not a linguistics one. 

Edited by WillR, 28 March 2025 - 11:21 AM.

[dave253]

Holden Australia (a division of GM), produced a small car in the 70s and 80s called the Gemini.

 

The ads, therefore everyone, pronounced it ‘Jem-in-eye’.

 

Interesting topic for sure; I’ve always wondered why Americans leave out the ‘L’ in solder.

[doolsduck]

Holden Australia (a division of GM), produced a small car in the 70s and 80s called the Gemini.

 

The ads, therefore everyone, pronounced it ‘Jem-in-eye’.

 

Interesting topic for sure; I’ve always wondered why Americans leave out the ‘L’ in solder.

Aussies have been pronouncing Gemini like that since, forever.  I remember Astrology minute on the radio...  I used to own a Gemini!

I wonder about the missing l on solder too!

 

 

 

Kilometre to me should be logically pronounced keelo-metre but it seems I'm wrong and most people say kill -ometa (short o).  What's an ometa anyway and why does it need killing?  We say keelo-gram, no one I know say kill -ogram (short o). This stuff used to get me bent out of shape.  It's not worth getting bent out of shape.  

 

It's worth noting that read and lead rhyme, as do read and lead, but read doesn't rhyme with lead, neither does read rhyme with lead

I would say a-chromatic (short a) but the alternative sounds fine to me.  a-typical (short a) would sound odd, but ay-typical does not. 

The you and I, you and me confusion does drive me nuts.  I actually think it's taught incorrectly in some schools, I have arguments with people about it who say it's always you and I, and it's meant to sound refined .  OK I say, would you like to come and have a beer with I?  Or would you like to come and have a beer with Bill and I?  Well maybe you should come and have a beer with Bill and ME.  Now dear reader are you and me going to argue over this or am me going to argue with myself?  Maybe you and I could have an argument, or I could argue with myself.

[Cotts]

I’m not so sure everyone is wrong if everyone pronounces it a certain way. Because common usage is the final arbiter, not a rule.  You expect consistency in pronunciation in the English language? (Take the word pronunciation for example. Say that one. Why isn’t it said like ounce?)

 

If I say Kilometer with the accent on Kil, it just sounds wrong to me. I sound like an idiot. Maybe it’s pronounced differently because it’s four syllables?

 

Anyway, you seem to be approaching this from a technical, scientific angle, not a linguistics one. 

SI Metric, Systeme Métrique International was the body that oversaw a consistent implementation of the Metric system back in the 60's or 70's.  They purposely made the pronunciation rules consistent and simple so that no matter what your native language, everyone in the world said the prefixes and suffixes the same way.  Useful at conferences and such.. So you are correct - it is a scientific approach that drives my take on things.  And as such should not be co-opted by the syllabification of one particular language.

 

Dave

[Tony Flanders]

SI Metric, Systeme Métrique International was the body that oversaw a consistent implementation of the Metric system back in the 60's or 70's.  They purposely made the pronunciation rules consistent and simple so that no matter what your native language, everyone in the world said the prefixes and suffixes the same way.

If they had done it in the 1810s, when countries were just starting to adopt the metre, they might have had some success. By the time they decided that kilometer should be pronounced "logically," the various national pronunciations were deeply established.

 

Given that French and English are inevitably going to pronounce the metre/meter part differently, trying to force French and Americans to pronounce the kilo part identically seems pointless. The attempt to do so was a classic example of hubris.

 

As the Wikipedia article on this subject notes, unlike people in Great Britain, Americans fail to comply with the standardized spelling of "metre", and the alternate spelling "meter" used in the U.S. encourages a pronuciation analogous to "barometer" and "thermometer."

 

You will note that nobody has tried to standardize the name -- much less the pronunciation -- of the Sun. That's wise. Regardless of any decrees, English speakers are still going to call it the Sun,French speakers le soleil, Germans die Sonne, Indians Surya, and so on.

Edited by Tony Flanders, 28 March 2025 - 01:29 PM.

[WillR]

SI Metric, Systeme Métrique International was the body that oversaw a consistent implementation of the Metric system back in the 60's or 70's.  They purposely made the pronunciation rules consistent and simple so that no matter what your native language, everyone in the world said the prefixes and suffixes the same way.  Useful at conferences and such.. So you are correct - it is a scientific approach that drives my take on things.  And as such should not be co-opted by the syllabification of one particular language.

 

Dave

I understand where you are coming from. I remember when the experts said pianist should be pronounced like piano but with a different last syllable (stress on the 2nd syllable), instead of with the stress on the first syllable, which sounds like a certain part of the male anatomy. 

 

I tried stressing the second syllable for a while, but everyone looked at me like I was an uneducated dope. Like I said, kilometer is maybe one of thousands of examples of odd pronunciations in English.

 

And as you no doubt noticed, the metric system was never adopted in the US. I wish it had been, but that is another conversation.

Edited by WillR, 28 March 2025 - 11:23 AM.

[A Star Geezer]

To keep it simple 

Is it tomaaatoe or tamaaato

       potooto or potato or spud

Sorry couldn't resist my strange humor

[Tony Flanders]

I remember when the experts said pianist should be pronounced like piano but with a different last syllable (stress on the 2nd syllable), instead of with the stress on the first syllable, which sounds like a certain part of the male anatomy. 
 
I tried stressing the second syllable for a while, but everyone looked at me like I was an uneducated dope.

Intriguing. I come from a family of classical musicians, and we all pronounce pianist the same way you do. As do a number of prominent professional pianists that I happen to know.

[WillR]

Intriguing. I come from a family of classical musicians, and we all pronounce pianist the same way you do. As do a number of prominent professional pianists that I happen to know.

You mean pee-yan-ist? Good to know. I hear them both.

[Starman1]

You mean pee-yan-ist? Good to know. I hear them both.

Hmm.  I've been around musicians a lot of my life and until today had never heard anyone accent the second syllable of pianist.

I wonder if it's an east coast/west coast thing.

[Tony Flanders]

Hmm.  I've been around musicians a lot of my life and until today had never heard anyone accent the second syllable of pianist.

It's two syllables, not three. PYAN-ist. Just like PYAN-o. Just as the Russian word "nyet" is one syllable. Nobody I've ever known calls it a pee-AN-o or a PEE-ano.

Edited by Tony Flanders, 28 March 2025 - 04:47 PM.

[Starman1]

It's two syllables, not three. PYAN-ist. Just like PYAN-o. Just as the Russian word "nyet" is one syllable. Nobody I've ever known calls it a pee-AN-o or a PEE-ano.

And in 73 years, I never heard the pronunciation pee-ann'-ist, only, ever, pee'-uh-nist.

And, always 3 syllables.

Must be a regional dialect.

Here are on-line pronunciations:

https://www.google.c...chrome&ie=UTF-8

and

https://www.google.c...nt=gws-wiz-serp

 

Click on the speaker symbols.

Edited by Starman1, 28 March 2025 - 05:45 PM.

[WillR]

We are wandering far off topic, but I have heard both variations many times and there seems to be no agreed on pronunciation.

 

https://www.grammarp...01/pianist.html

Edited by WillR, 28 March 2025 - 08:11 PM.

[rob1986]

I understand where you are coming from. I remember when the experts said pianist should be pronounced like piano but with a different last syllable (stress on the 2nd syllable), instead of with the stress on the first syllable, which sounds like a certain part of the male anatomy.

I tried stressing the second syllable for a while, but everyone looked at me like I was an uneducated dope. Like I said, kilometer is maybe one of thousands of examples of odd pronunciations in English.

And as you no doubt noticed, the metric system was never adopted in the US. I wish it had been, but that is another conversation.

Would we have managed our bombing campaigns so effectively with SI tooling?

Somehow i doubt it.

Maybe goddard would have gotten more respect though.

[jimeh]

It's two syllables, not three. PYAN-ist. Just like PYAN-o. Just as the Russian word "nyet" is one syllable. Nobody I've ever known calls it a pee-AN-o or a PEE-ano.

"Piano" and "pianist" are both three syllable words, regardless of where you put the accent or how you pronounce the vowels.

Edited by jimeh, 30 March 2025 - 03:09 AM.

[Tony Flanders]

"Piano" and "pianist" are both three syllable words, regardless of where you put the accent or how you pronounce the vowels.

You can define it that way if you like. I think it's more natural to consider "piano" to be two syllables, with the "y" sound part of a constant cluster together with the "p."

Constants like "y", "l", "r", "m", and "n" are sometimes called semivowels. Unlike plosives like "p" and "t", you can hold the "l" of "please" or the "i" of "piano" as long as you like. So if you're going to claim that "piano" is three syllables, I will counterclaim that "please" is two syllables. And it is in fact sometimes is pronounced that way for effect.

[jimeh]

You can define it that way if you like. I think it's more natural to consider "piano" to be two syllables, with the "y" sound part of a constant cluster together with the "p."

I define it the same way as everyone else who speaks English. It's a three syllable word.

[rob1986]

I define it the same way as everyone else who speaks English. It's a three syllable word.

Careful.