93 replies to this topic

[TOMDEY]

For whatever reason, just about everybody says AK-romatic. But if I heard you saying the letter A followed by kromatic, I would think "What an interesting pronunciation; that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if that was ever the normal way to say it?"

 

After hanging out with a bunch of major players in the astronomy community, I'm pretty relaxed about pronunciation. Is it VEE-guh or VAY-guh? A survey of editors at Sky & Telescope (of which I was one at the time) was split precisely 50/50. Most people say GLOB-ular cluster, but a substantial minority, including some big names, say GLOBE-ular. And so on.

One book on Halley (of cometary fame) included a pretty lengthy section on regarding the correct pronunciation of his name. Some common current variational guesses are:

 

Hay Lee

Hail Lee

 

But the author concludes that both of the above are erroneous. Basing it on Halley's family tree (roots and branches) and other ancestral indicators... the most probable pronunciation that he used when self-referencing was --- Haul Lee.    Tom

 

PS: I happily imaged his comet last go-around >>>

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[Tony Flanders]

One book on Halley (of cometary fame) included a pretty lengthy section on regarding the correct pronunciation of his name.

Right. And then there's Huygens. My cousin, who has lived in the Netherlands for most of her life, assures me that nobody born outside the country is capable of saying the name as the locals would. Which in any case varies wildly depending what part of the Netherlands you're from.

[Starman1]

Right. And then there's Huygens. My cousin, who has lived in the Netherlands for most of her life, assures me that nobody born outside the country is capable of saying the name as the locals would. Which in any case varies wildly depending what part of the Netherlands you're from.

I thought it was "hoy'-kuhns".

[TeslaTrek]

Incidentally I asked the great google to help: 

 

        In Dutch, "Huygens" is pronounced roughly as "Hoy-hens". The "H" is pronounced like a soft "h" sound, the "ui" is pronounced like "oy", and the "s" is a regular "s" sound.

 

So I then asked google to pronounce "Camelopardalis" for me.  I now know I was totally destroying the constellation.

 

Camelopardalis" is pronounced kah-MEL-uh-PAR-duh-lis.

 

Simple right?

[Starman1]

Incidentally I asked the great google to help:

In Dutch, "Huygens" is pronounced roughly as "Hoy-hens". The "H" is pronounced like a soft "h" sound, the "ui" is pronounced like "oy", and the "s" is a regular "s" sound.

So I then asked google to pronounce "Camelopardalis" for me. I now know I was totally destroying the constellation.

Camelopardalis" is pronounced kah-MEL-uh-PAR-duh-lis.

Simple right?

There are 2 acceptable pronunciations of Camelopardalis: one is as you mention.
The other places the accent on the first syllable, CAM-uh-lo-PAR-duh-luhs, where the 'uh'
is really a schwa.

[Marcus1]

Is this thread skirting around uranus ?

[WillR]

Is this thread skirting around uranus ?

[The_boots]

I'm sure many of you with kids in school are aware of the trend in "reading assignments" these days.

Remember when we had to read this or that book for an English class in high school ?

Nowadays that has morphed to the kids calling up the online version of the book, and then listening to it being read to them by some dumb-ax  AI robotic voice, which invariably includes mispronunciations and severely misplaced inflections.

 

Does not look good for the future, as anyone hiring people for skilled jobs can attest. Half of them can't even read from a printed page.

I know we've had our discussions about kids and learning, but I gotta say you're a bit behind the times. Most of our English teachers would be overjoyed to find out that their students actually listened to a robotic voice reading the whole book! 

These days we're worried about them just going to ChatGPT to get summaries AND finish all their assignments. If you thought things were bad before...

 

I'm getting better at spotting when students have submitted stuff from ChatGPT (I call him "Chad G. Petty"), and I've called them out for being lazy about their cheating. They don't even bother to put "write this in the voice of a high school student," into their prompts!

 

Now as for pronouncing Vega, I'll admit I just used the same pronunciation that my friends and I used for the Street Fighter character.

[rob1986]

I know we've had our discussions about kids and learning, but I gotta say you're a bit behind the times. Most of our English teachers would be overjoyed to find out that their students actually listened to a robotic voice reading the whole book!
These days we're worried about them just going to ChatGPT to get summaries AND finish all their assignments. If you thought things were bad before...

I'm getting better at spotting when students have submitted stuff from ChatGPT (I call him "Chad G. Petty"), and I've called them out for being lazy about their cheating. They don't even bother to put "write this in the voice of a high school student," into their prompts!

Now as for pronouncing Vega, I'll admit I just used the same pronunciation that my friends and I used for the Street Fighter character.

We're going to have to go back to the wonderful days of tests only.

And written assignments from a writing lab or a word processing program that wont take copy paste.

[EsaT]

   My understanding is (was, has been, had been) that the prefix "in" can mean "not" (inconceivable, invalid).  It can also mean in or on (influx, inject, inscribe, invoke) in this sense inflammable is interpreted as setting flame on it.  Incandescent would be similar.  By extension, inflammable substances would burn more readily than those designated as simply flammable.   For example, I thought that home heating fuel was flammable and gasoline was inflammable.   Methinks that my thoughts are out-dated. 

Well, if you're adding only couple letters long extra to word, that's little compared to what you can add in Finnish language...

 

Number 10 is actually missing possible prefix "epä" to add negative/opposite meaning:

https://www.tongue-twister.net/fi.htm

 

But at least that prefix has always same meaning, instead of changing arbitrarily.

And pronouncing is easy: You just read the letters...

 

Just like in compound words...

[pretyro]

Well, if you're adding only couple letters long extra to word, that's little compared to what you can add in Finnish language...

 

Number 10 is actually missing possible prefix "epä" to add negative/opposite meaning:

https://www.tongue-twister.net/fi.htm

 

But at least that prefix has always same meaning, instead of changing arbitrarily.

And pronouncing is easy: You just read the letters...

 

Just like in compound words...

 

  Yep, addition of just a couple letters can be invaluable, err, valuable, heck, I'll go with invaluable.

[PalomarJack]

Nobody likes hanging out with the Cool Kids at the star party and say a big fancy word like "Achromatic" and have everyone look at you like a loser because you didn't say it right, so...

I've been watching Astronomy YouTube, and I noticed that some people(e.g. Ed Ting, Nico Carver) seem to pronounce "Achromatic" so that it sounds a lot like "Acrobatic".

But when I look at the word and what it means, I would have thought you would say it more like Ayy-chromatic. I mean, doesn't the word indicate that there have been attempts to make it have less (or no) chromatism.

Atypical-- Not typical. Achromatic-- not chromatic. Is that wrong?

Similarly, when people talk about apochromatics, they often pronounce it as "ayy-poe", but given that the prefix "apo" makes me think of apogee-- the farthest away from Earth. In this case, it would make apochromatic the farthest away from chromatism.

Apogee-- farthest from Earth, Apochromatic-- Farthest from chromatism.

 

What are the sources of these words, and is there even a technically correct pronunciation? 

A very simple remedy. Do you know what they mean? Even if "achromatic" is mispronounced "acrobatic" but in the context of describing an "achromatic" lens I should think it is very obvious what is being discussed.

 

Look, when I started using the Linux operating system back in the late '90s it was pronounced line-ucks, but thanks to the "lame stream" media in the early 2000s it got butchered into "Lin-nicks". It's not even spelled that way. They do that with other pronunciations, too. But I digress. Do I make a stink about it? No, I know what is being talked about, so I just don't care. Now I on the other hand have been corrected, even militantly chastised about mispronouncing it. "Oh, it's on buddy." Out comes basic English grammar and word structure. For what it's worth, even Linux power users pronounce it wrong, Linus Torvalds pronounces it Line-oocks.

 

Same with the observing site the club I belong to uses, It's spelled Chuchupate, most pronounce it choo-chuh-potty. The correct Spanish pronunciation is choo-choo-puh-TAY. But, I know what they mean, who am I to correct them?

 

And, for those that use English as a second language, without training they find it difficult to pronounce English words. Ever here a Chinese person pronounce "parking lot"? It comes out "pawcking rot". I know what they mean, so who cares? Actually, I think it's kind of adorable. Unlike the American media butchering "Linux".

Edited by PalomarJack, 19 April 2025 - 06:29 AM.

[Starman1]

I fiund a Reddit interview with Linus, and he says the pronunciation is "linn'-ucks".
Sorry, but he invented it...

Chuchupate is a Chumash name and is pronounced choo-choo-pah-tay with no accent on any syllable.

[WillR]

I fiund a Reddit interview with Linus, and he says the pronunciation is "linn'-ucks".
Sorry, but he invented it...

Chuchupate is a Chumash name and is pronounced choo-choo-pah-tay with no accent on any syllable.

I was thinking of pointing out it can’t be Choo-choo-puh-tay because there are no unstressed syllables in Spanish, so a is always pronounced ah. But since his post was about it not being important (true), I thought better of it.

[Cotts]

I know we've had our discussions about kids and learning, but I gotta say you're a bit behind the times. Most of our English teachers would be overjoyed to find out that their students actually listened to a robotic voice reading the whole book! 

These days we're worried about them just going to ChatGPT to get summaries AND finish all their assignments. If you thought things were bad before...

 

I'm getting better at spotting when students have submitted stuff from ChatGPT (I call him "Chad G. Petty"), and I've called them out for being lazy about their cheating. They don't even bother to put "write this in the voice of a high school student," into their prompts!

 

Now as for pronouncing Vega, I'll admit I just used the same pronunciation that my friends and I used for the Street Fighter character.

Cliff Notes and Classics Illustrated for those of a certain age.  Nothing new under the sun and all that.

 

Dave 

[TOMDEY]

Right. And then there's Huygens. My cousin, who has lived in the Netherlands for most of her life, assures me that nobody born outside the country is capable of saying the name as the locals would. Which in any case varies wildly depending what part of the Netherlands you're from.

I play it safe and just address him as Christiaan... but I also don't know how to pronounce that... so have settled on, "Hey Bro, long time no see!"... to which he responds, "Hi, Tom --- Don't worry; I can fix that."    Tom

 

Here's what an expert has to say on the subject >>>

 

https://video.search...3f&action=click

[Freezout]

Right. And then there's Huygens. My cousin, who has lived in the Netherlands for most of her life, assures me that nobody born outside the country is capable of saying the name as the locals would. Which in any case varies wildly depending what part of the Netherlands you're from.

Yes and I think the main issue in Dutch is the g. The pronunciation of the rest can be written down to have people understand by comparison with English, but English-born speakers and the other European people will have to work on it a minimum before pronouncing it properly (especially in non-southern way).

 

In this video, starting at the first seconds and in the end, the name Huygens pronounced in Dutch.

https://schooltv.nl/...istiaan-huygens

[Tony Flanders]

Yes and I think the main issue ((with the pronunciation of Huygens)) in Dutch is the g.

Yes, the Dutch "g" is a problem for English-speakers. It's similar to the German "ch" as in Bach, but not quite the same.

But I think the "uy" is a bigger issue. The first syllable of Huygens's name is much more like the English "how" than like the "hoy" in "ahoy," but again it's not quite like either of those.

[Freezout]

Yes, the Dutch "g" is a problem for English-speakers. It's similar to the German "ch" as in Bach, but not quite the same.

But I think the "uy" is a bigger issue. The first syllable of Huygens's name is much more like the English "how" than like the "hoy" in "ahoy," but again it's not quite like either of those.

 

In Holland and the North provinces, which is more considered as the "classic" or generally correct language the g is "hard" and like in the video I posted.

In the South, the g is said "soft" and is pronounced really more like your example the German "Bach" ch.

 

So you can directly spot where a Dutch comes from by asking him "how do you pronounce Huygens?"

 

To my French delicate ears, the Southern version is nicer to hear...

 

uy or ui is pronounced like oeil (the eye) in French. It's indeed hard to find an English word with the same sound.

 

Sorry to go off-topic to continue on the Dutch language story...

Edited by Freezout, Yesterday, 10:04 AM.