31 replies to this topic

[Jon Isaacs]

I have two Starbound chairs, I have had one for about 25 years, one for around 15-20 years.  They get a lot of use, a lot of abuse..  Both of them have welds that have broken due to my habit of leaning over to the left on two legs to look through the finder...

 

But last week was the ultimate.  Not long ago, the lag screws that hold the seat to the rails pulled out. I thought nothing of it, things were a little bent but I just straightened things out, put new lag screws in and figured I was done..  A few nights later.. Same thing happened.  Suddenly the seat was off to one side and very uncomfortable.. It was time for a closer look, time to put 2 and 2 together.. figure out what was going on..   

 

I have been keeping that chair out in the patio under a canopy for a few years now.  No problems.  In a recent storm, the canopy suffered some damage.. It was basic worthless.  The base of the seat of the Starbound chair turns out to have been made from particle board and particle board and water, screws pull out under load... 

 

Repair.. I needed a piece of wood big enough for a seat.. I found one.  (Also notice the 2" dowel that prevents the front legs from sinking into sand and mud...

 

 

That's number Rat Rod #1.  Number $2, the welds really broke so I decided to reinforce it so it would never fail.. 

 

 

 

Show really beautiful chairs...  That first one, it's pretty hard on the rear.  I need to get a pad for it.

 

Jon

Edited by Jon Isaacs, 25 March 2025 - 10:35 PM.

[Jethro7]

Hello Jon,

Thanks for sharing. I very quickly realized how much of a game changer the Starbound chair was on the first viewing session session. The repairs are worth the efforts. Its been six years of hard use with my Starbound chair now and its still going strong. It is nice to know that I may have many more years to go before I need to do the same.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

[PIEJr]

I like innovative home-grown design improvements, Jon.

 

Grab one of the pillows off the couch or use the wife's pillow. 

 

Ducks... runs...

 

What about a seat off of a John Deere tractor?

[Jon Isaacs]

 

Its been six years of hard use with my Starbound chair now and its still going strong. It is nice to know that I may have many more years to go before I need to do the same.

 

When the screws pulled out the second time, I thought to myself, maybe it's time for a new chair.   But then I found that hunk of hardwood and it all made sense.. Fix it so it is stronger than new.

 

Jon

[TOMDEY]

Nice repairs and deluxe upgrades! I have a love-hate relationship with particle board. The sheets are dimensionally exact, flat as a pancake, and nice and cheap. But astonishingly heavy, huge affinity for moisture, and not good for common fasteners --- especially coming in from the edge. I've had to replace a lot of that stuff over the decades. Nothing's forever --- but that stuff in a moist environment sure degrades. Alas --- most chair seats are made of that now. If used for shelfs --- permanently droops under load over time. Now that machined aluminum plate --- now that's forever!    Tom

[PIEJr]

Nice repairs and deluxe upgrades! I have a love-hate relationship with particle board. The sheets are dimensionally exact, flat as a pancake, and nice and cheap. But astonishingly heavy, huge affinity for moisture, and not good for common fasteners --- especially coming in from the edge. I've had to replace a lot of that stuff over the decades. Nothing's forever --- but that stuff in a moist environment sure degrades. Alas --- most chair seats are made of that now. If used for shelfs --- permanently droops under load over time. Now that machined aluminum plate --- now that's forever!    Tom

Or 300 years before it turns back into ore...

[Redbetter]

Jon, 

 

Seeing the alterations that you have needed to make to keep your chairs in service, it makes me appreciate my Stardust observing chair more.  It is 2004 vintage, a rebranding of the "Vestil CPRO-600 Ergonomic Worker Chair" from what I can tell.  I have a second Vestil with the swivel seat.

 

While my ladder is my primary observing perch, the chair is present on every dark sky trip and gets plenty of use.  The chair serves as my observing table seat and I move it to the scope when objects are low in the sky (unless the positions are conducive to sitting on the deep platform steps of the ladder.)  It is also used for backyard observing with other scopes, or for other scopes at the dark site when I have a second set up.

[Astro-Master]

 

I have two Starbound chairs, I have had one for about 25 years, one for around 15-20 years.  They get a lot of use, a lot of abuse..  Both of them have welds that have broken due to my habit of leaning over to the left on two legs to look through the finder...

 

But last week was the ultimate.  Not long ago, the lag screws that hold the seat to the rails pulled out. I thought nothing of it, things were a little bent but I just straightened things out, put new lag screws in and figured I was done..  A few nights later.. Same thing happened.  Suddenly the seat was off to one side and very uncomfortable.. It was time for a closer look, time to put 2 and 2 together.. figure out what was going on..   

 

I have been keeping that chair out in the patio under a canopy for a few years now.  No problems.  In a recent storm, the canopy suffered some damage.. It was basic worthless.  The base of the seat of the Starbound chair turns out to have been made from particle board and particle board and water, screws pull out under load... 

 

Repair.. I needed a piece of wood big enough for a seat.. I found one.  (Also notice the 2" dowel that prevents the front legs from sinking into sand and mud...

 

Ratrod Starbound Chair.jpg

 

That's number Rat Rod #1.  Number $2, the welds really broke so I decided to reinforce it so it would never fail.. 

 

 

 

 

 

Show really beautiful chairs...  That first one, it's pretty hard on the rear.  I need to get a pad for it.

 

Jon

 

That second chair looks like an engineer with OCD got a hold of it!   

[Jon Isaacs]

Jon, 

 

Seeing the alterations that you have needed to make to keep your chairs in service, it makes me appreciate my Stardust observing chair more.  It is 2004 vintage, a rebranding of the "Vestil CPRO-600 Ergonomic Worker Chair" from what I can tell.  I have a second Vestil with the swivel seat.

 

While my ladder is my primary observing perch, the chair is present on every dark sky trip and gets plenty of use.  The chair serves as my observing table seat and I move it to the scope when objects are low in the sky (unless the positions are conducive to sitting on the deep platform steps of the ladder.)  It is also used for backyard observing with other scopes, or for other scopes at the dark site when I have a second set up.

 

My recollection is that you are considerably lighter than I and and don't put the load on a chair on the chair that I do.  I weigh between 220 lbs ond 240 lbs.  The Vestil 600 is rated at 220 lbs.  Looking at the skinny tubing, I would probably finish off a Vestil 600 in under 10 years. 

 

https://www.amazon.c...y/dp/B0052PJF5E

 

Jon

Edited by Jon Isaacs, 26 March 2025 - 08:22 AM.

[DSO Viewer AZ]

I have always been a fan of rat rods.. I hope you keep true to the rat rod design for the rear end pad. Both look great! Wonderful solutions!

[LDW47]

 

I have two Starbound chairs, I have had one for about 25 years, one for around 15-20 years.  They get a lot of use, a lot of abuse..  Both of them have welds that have broken due to my habit of leaning over to the left on two legs to look through the finder...

 

But last week was the ultimate.  Not long ago, the lag screws that hold the seat to the rails pulled out. I thought nothing of it, things were a little bent but I just straightened things out, put new lag screws in and figured I was done..  A few nights later.. Same thing happened.  Suddenly the seat was off to one side and very uncomfortable.. It was time for a closer look, time to put 2 and 2 together.. figure out what was going on..   

 

I have been keeping that chair out in the patio under a canopy for a few years now.  No problems.  In a recent storm, the canopy suffered some damage.. It was basic worthless.  The base of the seat of the Starbound chair turns out to have been made from particle board and particle board and water, screws pull out under load... 

 

Repair.. I needed a piece of wood big enough for a seat.. I found one.  (Also notice the 2" dowel that prevents the front legs from sinking into sand and mud...

 

Ratrod Starbound Chair.jpg

 

That's number Rat Rod #1.  Number $2, the welds really broke so I decided to reinforce it so it would never fail.. 

 

 

 

 

 

Show really beautiful chairs...  That first one, it's pretty hard on the rear.  I need to get a pad for it.

 

Jon

 

Just buy a lawn chair cushion for your soft ......., lol.  The fix looks good enough, eh.

Edited by LDW47, 26 March 2025 - 08:50 AM.

[Jon Isaacs]

Just buy a lawn chair cushion for your soft ......., lol.  The fix looks good enough, eh.

 

 

I could just wear some cycling shorts.. Their padded.. I'd probably wear them under my trousers.

 

Otherwise, there'd be two rat rods in the photos.

 

Jon

[LDW47]

 

I could just wear some cycling shorts.. Their padded.. I'd probably wear them under my trousers.

 

Otherwise, there'd be two rat rods in the photos.

 

Jon

Never thought of that angle, lol !

[sevenofnine]

Jon, one of these would really spruce up that rat rod seat 

 

https://www.amazon.c...s_ts-doa-p_6_12.

[Ronny Floyd]

Dang Jon, those things are Industrial Duty now ! Good job Sir !

[Pat Rochford]

Nice repairs and deluxe upgrades! I have a love-hate relationship with particle board. The sheets are dimensionally exact, flat as a pancake, and nice and cheap. But astonishingly heavy, huge affinity for moisture, and not good for common fasteners --- especially coming in from the edge. I've had to replace a lot of that stuff over the decades. Nothing's forever --- but that stuff in a moist environment sure degrades. Alas --- most chair seats are made of that now. If used for shelfs --- permanently droops under load over time. Now that machined aluminum plate --- now that's forever!    Tom

Or just get one of these.  (Shipping's a bit expensive though.)

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[Jon Isaacs]

Or just get one of these.  (Shipping's a bit expensive though.)

 

The cyclist's version:

 

https://www.sheldonb...m/real-man.html

 

Jon

[Redbetter]

My recollection is that you are considerably lighter than I and and don't put the load on a chair on the chair that I do.  I weigh between 220 lbs ond 240 lbs.  The Vestil 600 is rated at 220 lbs.  Looking at the skinny tubing, I would probably finish off a Vestil 600 in under 10 years. 

 

https://www.amazon.c...y/dp/B0052PJF5E

 

Jon

As others have noted in the past, the Vestil/Stardust weight rating is bogusly conservative.  One person commented that they were originally rated at 350, but I haven't seen actual documentation of that.  At any rate 300 + lb people said they didn't have any trouble with it.  And it doesn't dump people like the StarEarthbound chair has been known to do.  Plus the Stardust doesn't have the tip forward problem at the lowest settings.

 

Seeing as how you have been able to break the welds on the Starbound, you could conceivably do that to the Stardust/Vestil, although I imagine it would be more difficult to tilt the latter on two feet the way you have the Starbound. 

 

All this just reminds me how much I dislike the way the feet are executed on the Starbound,   It is strange that they never improved this, as it shouldn't be that difficult, as seen with the way Vestil's feet are done.

[zizzapnia]

Jon,

 

Get one of those cheapie dense foam stadium cushions (with the handle cutout), cut it to fit, put a couple of strips of double-sided foam tape on the chair seat, and you won't have to worry about it sliding around or falling off. If it gets wet you just wipe it off.

Edited by zizzapnia, 26 March 2025 - 08:50 PM.

[Jon Isaacs]

As others have noted in the past, the Vestil/Stardust weight rating is bogusly conservative.  One person commented that they were originally rated at 350, but I haven't seen actual documentation of that.  At any rate 300 + lb people said they didn't have any trouble with it.  And it doesn't dump people like the StarEarthbound chair has been known to do.  Plus the Stardust doesn't have the tip forward problem at the lowest settings.

 

Seeing as how you have been able to break the welds on the Starbound, you could conceivably do that to the Stardust/Vestil, although I imagine it would be more difficult to tilt the latter on two feet the way you have the Starbound. 

 

All this just reminds me how much I dislike the way the feet are executed on the Starbound,   It is strange that they never improved this, as it shouldn't be that difficult, as seen with the way Vestil's feet are done.

 

Compared to the Starbound, the Vestril is flimsy.  I've used them ..I would like to see the documentation that the Vestril was originally rated at 350 lbs. Somebody said doesn't cut it.  

 

As far as the robustness and durability of the Starbound.. there are very few amateurs who observe as often or as much as I do. Combined with my size and habits, it's no surprise that after 15 or 20 years, repair is required.  I am quite sure that a Vestril would not have lasted near as long.  Comparing the Vestril to the Starbound, larger tubing is used with Starbound and in front where the observer's weight puts large bending loads on the tubing, the Starbound has 4 tubes rather than 2..  

 

Looking at the Vestril design, it's clear it wasn't designed as an observing chair, it's a work place chair designed to be used on flat surfaces. Observing chairs like the Catsperch and Starbound are hinged at the top and combine narrow spacing front or back and wider spacing back or front.  That allows them to conform to varied terrain.  

 

It is not strange they never changed the design of the front feet, it's near ideal and does allow the chair to be placed closer to the scope.  

 

 

This thread, it's a fun thread, it shows what can be done to improve and repair an item that has already demonstrated it's durability.  I could have had the broken welds repaired on the one chair but I don't have a welder and I decided to repair it with the tools I had.  It took me a couple of hours but I really enjoyed it and I think the repair approach is creative and results not only stunning visually but so robust, it will not fail.

 

Jon  

 

[Jon Isaacs]

Or just get one of these.  (Shipping's a bit expensive though.)

Rocks are not a problem.  

 

When we first bought the place in the high desert, my wife wanted some rocks to sit on and watch the sunset.  So one day she calls me up and tells me she has purchased two rocks for about $250, they weigh about a ton each and the delivery cost was quite a bit more since it was 70 miles away..  Did I know anyone with a truck?

 

The irony.. There are rocks of all sizes at our place in the high desert. the property edge along the road, when they graded the road.. they just dozed the rocks off to the side there are many tons of rocks of all just for the taking.  

 

 

We have purchased no rocks since then but we have hauled a number of rocks back to the city..

 

Jon 

[Pat Rochford]

 

The irony.. There are rocks of all sizes at our place in the high desert. the property edge along the road, when they graded the road.. they just dozed the rocks off to the side there are many tons of rocks of all just for the taking.  

 

 

I'm guessing that 'barefoot observing' is not real popular in the high desert. On the few occasions where one might try it, I would imagine the loud profanity (resulting from the discovery of a rock under a foot) would help scare off any night predators.

[Jon Isaacs]

I'm guessing that 'barefoot observing' is not real popular in the high desert. On the few occasions where one might try it, I would imagine the loud profanity (resulting from the discovery of a rock under a foot) would help scare off any night predators.

 

It's more the stickers and thorns. Rocks just hurt a bit. The stickers and thorns become embedded and infected..

 

Jon

[Redbetter]

 

It is not strange they never changed the design of the front feet, it's near ideal and does allow the chair to be placed closer to the scope.  

It is actually very strange that they never bothered to improve on such an obviously flawed design that would benefit from some minor changes.  Your own words and images demonstrate that: 

 

Also notice the 2" dowel that prevents the front legs from sinking into sand and mud...

Exactly, that is the problem with this purpose made observing chair.  And it isn't just the front, I don't like the way the rear makes contact with the ground either.  Overall the feet design is poor for an observing chair. 

 

Contrast that with the Vestil where the foot design is actually pretty good by comparison.  The only negative is that the front feet stick out more, which can make placement trickier with small Dobs, not an issue with other scopes.  Of course, there is nothing stopping anyone from modifying the front feet to be narrower--cutting off just before the bend and attaching any desired form of foot/extension or bar. 

 

We have different approaches to looking at products.  I would rather see a product improved in obvious ways to make them better suited for the purpose/market, while you dig in on how the poorly conceived parts are some kind of plus, even when you have to take corrective action to address the deficiencies.

[Spikey131]

I have a Vestil chair and a Starbound chair.  I wore the Vestil chair out in less than 2 years.  The hardware that holds the seat in place is so bent up that it is barely useable.  I like it - it is a simple, lightweight design, but it doesn’t hold up to regular use.

 

I replaced it with a Starbound chair about 5y ago.  I use it 10-15 days and nights per month.  I know all about the problems - the seat slipping down at the least provocation; the feet cracking and falling off; and the plastic tubing on the seat mounts wearing thin.  Despite all of this, my Starbound remains sturdy, functional and comfortable after many years of regular use.