41 replies to this topic

[james7ca]

USB2 extenders seem to have gotten fairly reliable over the last few years and they are also very inexpensive (generally). I've used one of these and it seems to work pretty well for low-speed data transfers using a sender/receiver pair that is connected with ethernet cabling.

 

However, has anyone found a relatively high-speed USB3 extender that runs over ethernet cabling that is BOTH reliable and inexpensive?

 

The Icron Raven systems have been available for several years but they cost anywhere from $1200 to over $2000 (U.S.) and that's more than I'd want to pay.

 

So, I've noticed that in the last year (or so) a couple of less expensive units have become available that sell for about $300. These CLAIM to support 5Gbps transfer speeds with up to four USB3 ports on the remote end, acting something like a USB3 hub that is connected to the host computer over CAT6 or CAT7 ethernet cabling (again when using a sender/receiver pair of devices). Plus, they don't require any software drivers on the host and apparently are plug-n-play on Window and the Mac OS. Realistically, I don't think these would actually support 5Gbps data transfers to even a single connected device (let alone four) but if they were measurably faster than USB2 and very reliable then they might be useful when trying to extend a USB3 connection to a hundred feet or more (most claim distances out to 100 meters or 330 feet).

 

Here are two such devices that are currently available on Amazon:

 

AV Access USB 3.0 Extender Over Ethernet, model number: U3EX100, Amazon link (price $300):

  

  https://www.amazon.c...190&sr=8-3&th=1

 

OREI USB 3.2 Over Ethernet, model number: USB3-EX330R-K, Amazon link (price $280):

 

  https://www.amazon.c...F9kZXRhaWw&th=1

 

Both of these seem to have become available on Amazon just in the last six months (i.e. fall 2024).

 

I can find a few references to an AV Access extender here on CN, but I think that referred to a USB2 extender. I can find no references to the OREI extender here on CN.

 

So, has anyone tried either of these units (or something similar than is well under $500)? I'd want a simple, plug-n-play product that could support up to four devices (not all USB3 speed) and work at up to 100 feet. It also has to be a wired connection as I already have a WiFi connected mini PC that can work as a remote, scope-side device for astrophotography.

Edited by james7ca, 26 March 2025 - 06:24 AM.

[archer1960]

I have two CoolGear 7-port powered USB-3 hubs on my mount and OTA, and they have been very reliable for the two years they have lived outside. But their best feature, IMO, is that you can reset an individual port remotely, instead of needing to go out and pull a USB cable if one of your devices loses its mind. They are under $200. https://www.coolgear...ontrol-software.

[james7ca]

I have two CoolGear 7-port powered USB-3 hubs on my mount and OTA, and they have been very reliable for the two years they have lived outside. But their best feature, IMO, is that you can reset an individual port remotely, instead of needing to go out and pull a USB cable if one of your devices loses its mind. They are under $200. https://www.coolgear...control-software

Thanks, that's nice to know, but a hub doesn't significantly extend the reach of a USB3 chain or cable. Well, maybe a little since you could use a six to ten foot cable on either side of the hub. Thus perhaps a ten foot extension over what you might get without the hub. I'm looking for something that can reach out to a hundred feet or more with decent speed and high reliability. Right now that may require something like the previously mentioned Icron Raven at greater than $1000.

[archer1960]

Thanks, that's nice to know, but a hub doesn't significantly extend the reach of a USB3 chain or cable. Well, maybe a little since you could use a six to ten foot cable on either side of the hub. Thus perhaps a ten foot extension over what you might get without the hub. I'm looking for something that can reach out to a hundred feet or more with decent speed and high reliability. Right now that may require something like the previously mentioned Icron Raven at greater than $1000.

For that, you're probably looking at a USB-to-Ethernet converter, which will get you up to 300 ft, and if you need more, you're looking at a point-to-point WiFi setup.

[james7ca]

For that, you're probably looking at a USB-to-Ethernet converter, which will get you up to 300 ft, and if you need more, you're looking at a point-to-point WiFi setup.

Yes, that's true but isn't what you just wrote basically the same as what I said in my original post?

Edited by james7ca, 26 March 2025 - 01:41 PM.

[NearVision]

I haven't used either of the extenders you have linked but I have used other equipment from AV Access with good results. I've used their HDMI/USB 2.0 network system to connect a computer to multiple screens in different rooms in a public building. AV Access has been around for several years and makes good quality equipment. I have found that you want to use quality network cable and connectors. Read the requirements as minimum. If it says Cat 6a cable don't try a Cat 6 or 5e. Also, make sure the wire is pure copper not CCA (copper clad aluminum). CCA is much lower price but only lasts a year or 2 before it smarts oxidizing and causing problems.

 

At least Amazon has the 30 day return policy if it doesn't work the way you expect.

[archer1960]

Yes, that's true but isn't what you just wrote basically the same as what I said in my original post?

So it is! I didn't go back and re-read the original post when I sent that msg.

[archer1960]

A search for "ethernet usb adapter" turned up several possibilities. If standard Ethernet distances will serve, then what about this: https://www.lenovo.c...EoaAhOnEALw_wcB

Edited by archer1960, 26 March 2025 - 02:27 PM.

[Rasfahan]

I‘ve had good success with a Silex DS 700. It‘s €150 here. Silex claims 700MBit connectivity which is on the optimistic side. If you need faster it’s not the right device.

I have used it with a variety of devices successfully including a rain sensor, a CNC drill, a CD drive, a HD webcam and a color printer. Latency and throughput were sufficient for all applications and it is very stable. I have not tried it for astro because I prefer my control PC to be on the scope with short wires to the equipment for reliability.

[james7ca]

NearVision, archer1960, and Torben thanks for the feedback.

 

Torben, that Silex DS700 provides something that is close to what I want but it isn't what I'd call a fully plug-n-play device and it appears to work only under the Windows OS. You need software/drivers for the DS700 that need to be installed on the host computer before it will work with any USB devices. Generally, that custom software creates virtual USB ports on the host computer to which the device drivers on the host then use to communicate with the remote peripheral. That device-specific data is then redirected over a standard ethernet connection/network to the DS700 that then converts the ethernet stream back into a USB compatible signal.

 

The type of device I'm looking for is fully plug-n-play and will/should work with any host or peripheral that supports USB. That means it should work with any USB device type that is supported by the host WITHOUT the need to install any custom software that might be required or tied directly to the ADAPTING device. In fact, the three adapters/extenders that I mentioned in my original post should work transparently with any operating system or "smart" host. So, they work under Windows, Unix, the Mac OS and probably even iOS or Android (if the latter two support the particular USB peripheral that is attached to the smart phone, tablet, or computer-like host).

 

As for that "ethernet usb adapter" that is linked to by archer1960 (above), that kind of device won't work for my purpose. That adapter just adds an ethernet port to a smart device (i.e. a computer) using a USB-type connector. I believe that the support for that type of adapter is part of the USB standard so it will work plug-n-play with most computers and some other "smart" devices (like many smart phones, tablets, and a few other host devices). However, it will NOT allow you to connect to a simple USB peripheral (like a keyboard, mouse, hard drive, USB hub, or a USB-based astro camera or most any USB-connected mount).

 

That said, I use exactly this kind of adapter to control my Nikon Z8 camera over a standard, wired ethernet port that is connected to my Apple Macbook Air. These types of USB-based adapters have been around for many years and they are cheap and generally work very well under most computer operating systems. But note, my Nikon Z8 will work with one of these adapters only because Nikon has specifically added support for this feature within the camera itself and many (most?) other Nikon cameras do not support this kind of adapter. What you do is plug the USB-C connector on this adapter into the Nikon Z8 and then you can attach the adapter's ethernet port to any wired, ethernet network. Bascially, it just makes the Nikon Z8 a network-capable device (as if it had a physical ethernet port built-in).

Edited by james7ca, 27 March 2025 - 12:45 AM.

[Rasfahan]

Yes, the Silex creates virtual USB ports and you need their software for that on the host PC. I think they offer Mac support but I haven’t tried that - reviews seem to indicate it is problematic, so if you need Mac compatibility, another product might be better. After connection in the host software it is transparent: It is not limited to certain classes of USB peripherals like many of the products that only support storage and printers.

[james7ca]

According to the information on the Silex website the DS700 is only supported on Windows, they don't show any kind of direct support for the Mac OS. That said, you might be able to use it with a Window emulator running on a Mac. They also offer an SDK for third-party applications that want to access the DS700 under iOS and Android, but they seem to have nothing for the Mac OS.

 

However, the type of device that I'm looking for should work under any OS without the need for special software on the host, except for the specific USB driver that may be needed for the peripheral in question. So, it might be possible to use one of these extenders with an iPad as long as that peripheral is supported on the iPad with a standard USB-C type connection (although with the OREI extender you'd need a simple -- static -- USB-C to USB-A adapter). 

 

All that said, the cheaper extenders from AV Access and OREI may NOT work with every USB peripheral since there could be problems with the hardware and/or firmware that resides within those devices. In fact, both of those units have ports that are dedicated to firmware updates. Notably (perhaps), the AV Access and OREI extenders say nothing about support for isochronous USB transfers and that mode is required for some video and audio devices. However, they claim that their extenders work with USB-based web cams and microphones and indeed they MIGHT for some of those types of devices (but, maybe not all?). Meanwhile, the more expensive (>$1000) Icron Raven Pro specifically supports isochronous transfers and Icron says you need this more expensive model if you want full support for that form of USB transfer.

 

However, I kind of doubt that any astronomy-focused USB device requires isochronous transfers but I'm also reasonably certain that the more expensive Icron extenders would offer faster data rates. I suspect that all of the USB3 Icron extenders support speeds that are well into the low Gbps range (standard USB3 goes up to 5Gbps, although I expect any extender will be less than that, sometimes much less).

 

I've actually used an inexpensive USB2 extender (over ethernet cabling) and that works surprisingly well and it actually approaches full UBS2 transfer speeds (480Mbps or about 50MB per second as tested with a hard drive). However, I haven't used it often enough to know whether it is absolutely rock solid in reliability and but it supports four USB2 ports on the remote end (acts like a hub)  only supports a singe USB port on the remote end. I can't remember if I tried it with a USB hub, but I expect that I did (but, don't quote me on the hub).

Edited by james7ca, 28 March 2025 - 12:17 AM.

[james7ca]

In case it wasn't obvious, I'd also like to hear from anyone who has used one of the Icron USB 3-2-1 Raven™ 3104 extenders (pro or standard or perhaps any of the Icron extenders that support USB3).

 

[UPDATE]

I just learned some new things about the Icron Raven 3104 extender. The data rate between the two units (sender and receiver) is 10Gbps and thus the USB3 connection can have up to 5Gbps with an additional 1Gbps devoted to the Raven's gigabit ethernet connection. So, with a SINGLE Cat 6a cable running between the two units you get both a 5Gbps USB3 connection (shared between the four USB3 ports on the receiver, just like a hub) and a 1Gbps ethernet network connection that can connect to any ethernet device that is attached to the receiver's LAN port (there are two ethernet ports on each device, one for the extender link and another for a 1Gbps ethernet connection/pass through). So, you can have a separate 1Gbps ethernet port out by your scope even though you only need to run a single cat 6a cable between the Icron Raven's sender (at the host) and receiver (at the remote location). Of course, you need to connect your PC (or something) to the LAN port on the sender unit to make use of the ethernet port on the receiver end.

 

I could actually make use of this for when I want to use my Nikon Z8 with my scope since the Nikon could be controlled over the ethernet port while any other devices (mount, guide camera, etc.) could be attached to the USB3 ports on the receiver.

 

There is, however, one minor complication with the Raven extender, it requires a 24 volt power supply and while the needed AC power adapters are provided with the units you'd need some kind of 24VDC source if you wanted to run directly from batteries. But, it seems that 24VDC batteries are fairly easy to obtain and really not that expensive so I don't think it would be much of a problem. Oddly, however, Icron's website says that you have to use their power supplies, they don't want you to power either the sender or receiver with your own power supply (it apparently voids the warranty). In that case I guess you could always use a true sine wave inverter running from a standard 12VDC battery (fortunately I already have one of those, a Go Power! GP-SW150-12 150-Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter).

 

The remote receiver comes with a 24V 2.71A power supply (65 watts). Each USB port can supply 1.2A at 5VDC (6 watts) which is above the standard USB3 spec of 4.5 watts.

 

As for the Cat 6a cabling, it's cheaper than I would have expected, so not a problem.

[/UPDATE] 

 

[UPDATE2]

For some unknown reason the Icron 3104 extenders can be found on eBay for well under $500 (used or even new). They normally retail for over $1000 with the "Pro" isochronous version going for about $1300.

 

I don't know about the warranties on these supposedly "new" units but the sellers say that they are new and in the original, unopened shipping boxes. May be worth a try although almost all of the sellers say they don't accept returns (but eBay says you can get your money refunded if the item is defective or not as represented in the eBay listing). Plus, the sellers I looked at have been on eBay for at least ten years and they all have ratings at near 100% with hundreds of satisfied customers. So, the risk seems fairly low against paying $300 for one of the new (on Amazon) AV Access or OREI extenders that may not work as well as the Icron 3104 (and I like the included ethernet pass through on the Icron).

[/UPDATE2]

Edited by james7ca, 28 March 2025 - 12:38 AM.

[R Botero]

James

 

I have not read through the whole thread but I am using the AV Access USB3.0 unit since mid February and it's working really well.  I had used an Icron Ranger before and then a Startech (both USB2.0).  Now I have three scopes imaging in tandem, one APS-C, one Full Frame and one Medium Format so lots of data so decided to upgrade to USB3.0.  My ROR is in the backgarden and I run a CAT cable from there into the house where the imaging PC lives.   I had to upgrade my Cat5e cables to Cat6/7 before using the AV unit - that was the biggest hassle - but otherwise it's invisible.

 

Roberto

[james7ca]

Roberto, thanks for that information on the AV Access unit. Is this the same one that is available on Amazon (  AV Access USB 3.0 Extender Over Ethernet, model number: U3EX100  )?

 

Also, it sounds like you are using at least three main cameras and the above AV Access only has four USB ports. So, how are you handling your mount and guide camera? Have you connected a hub to one of the ports on the AV Access? Also, have you ever run a test to check the bandwidth or determine the data rate through the AV Access? USB3 has a spec of 5Gbps and that works out to something between 400 and 500 mega bytes per second (about the same as a SATA-based SSD, while a spinning hard drive probably tops out at around 200MBps ).

 

The specs on the Icron Raven say that it can handle up to 30 USB devices and that suggests that it can work with USB hubs at the receiving end.

Edited by james7ca, 28 March 2025 - 11:00 AM.

[R Botero]

I think it's the same unit. References change across countries but in this case it's the same unit which I got from Amazon in the UK: https://amzn.eu/d/gAXJFpE

I feed two of the cameras into a Pegasus powerbox which then feeds into the AV unit. The medium format camera feeds directly. My mount and two of the focuser are connected via ethernet.

I have therefore one spare USB3 port in the AV unit.

Roberto

[R Botero]

The AV unit can have a usb hub (like the Pegasus I have) feed into it. Don't know how many USB3 it can cope with but I expect something similar to the Icron.

I think the Icron is overpriced unless it has some capability I'm not aware of.

[R Botero]

As for data throughput, I have not tested it but download speeds for the medium format camera are in line with its specs for USB3. When I do planetary imaging, I have a local PC and connect directly. I don't use this unit for it.

[freestar8n]

I have reported earlier about good results with 98 foot usb3.1 Swegltek cable:

 

https://www.newegg.c...j1nldDBNrGwxrqT

 

I used it for a couple years and it worked reliably.  I'm in a new house and have finally decided to switch to a remote pc (Mele) on the 'scope - and I now miss having a direct usb3 connection to a local powered hub.

 

Cables such as these can be hit or miss - but when they work I find they work.  They are much less expensive than other options described in this thread - and at 98 feet it may be long enough.  I think 150f is also available.

 

If you can try it and return it if it doesn't work - that's pretty safe.  A basic test is to connect it to a cmos camera with sharpcap and confirm it is connected via usb3 - then run video and check for dropped frames.  I was able to do everything at full speed - including usb3 connection to asi1600 full frame video at the same time as qhy174 usb2 video.  Plus other devices happily attached.

 

After switching to Mele I now realize that occasional connection problems may be due to internal usb2serial interfaces within devices such as filterwheels - and nothing to do with usb reliability itself.

 

You do need a good, powered usb3 hub with this cable - but that shouldn't be a problem.

 

Frank

[james7ca]

Roberto and Frank, thanks for the feedback.

 

...I think the Icron is overpriced unless it has some capability I'm not aware of.

Yes, at the standard retail price of just over $1000 the Icron Raven is more than I'd want to pay. However, as I noted earlier these same units seem to be available at a much lower price on eBay, used versions can run about $300 and new units seem to be available for much less than $1000. This means that you might be able to find one for less than Frank's (freestar8n) optical USB3 Gen 2 cable once you add a good 10Gbps USB3 Gen 2 hub to the latter. And I think I'd rather buy a used, wired version of anything over an optical cable if both need to be run outdoors.

 

That said, those optical USB-C cables carrying 10Gbps are something that I did not know about. I knew about such cables for Thunderbolt but not USB-C. However, the device that Frank linked to will not support USB v1.1 so perhaps no keyboards, etc, although I'm not aware of any of my astro equipment that would require USB v1.1 (but, don't know about a serial converter since USB v1.1 at 12Mbps would be plenty fast enough for a serial port -- do serial converters run over USB v1.1 or v2?).

 

However, if you had a permanent setup and could protect the optical cable when run outside then that device could be the “best” solution in terms of both cost and performance.

 

As for the Icron, its only obvious advantage over the less expensive USB3 extenders is that the Icron also supports a 1Gbps ethernet connection in addition to the four USB3 ports. So, it has five data ports all carried over a single cat 6a cable (total bandwidth consumption approximately 6Gbps). But, if you look at the marketing for the AV Access extender is says that the "Data transfer rate [is] 1E+1 Gigabits Per Second." I'm not sure what that "1E+" is supposed to mean but the following "1 Gigabits Per Second" COULD be an indication that the link between the sender and receiver is only running at 1Gbps (i.e. similar to the standard ethernet 1Gbps). However, that doesn't really jive with their claim of support for 5Gb USB3. Meanwhile, Icron says that their link is running at 10Gbps. If the AV Access extender has a link that is limited to 1Gbps then it may only be about twice as fast as the much less expensive extenders that support 480Mbps transfers over USB2. I already own one of the latter (an E-SDS USB2 extender) that I purchased for $50 about four years ago and I recently retested that device and got 40MBps (that's 400Mbps) from a Samsung Pro Plus SD card that is rated at 100MBps/800Mbps. Thus, the USB2 extender is getting pretty close to the rated USB2 speeds.

 

This is one of the reasons why I'm wondering about the actual data rates from both the AV Access and the OREI extenders. Is their link rate through the ethernet cable 1Gbps, 2.5Gbps, 5Gbps, or 10Gbps or something else like "1E+1?" In any case, the fastest of all of these device might be the 10Gbps optical cable suggested by Frank since in theory that might provide peak rates of up to 10Gbps right to the USB-C plug on the end of the cable and adding a true USB-C 10Gbps hub to the end of that might give you a peak data rate close to that same 10Gbps (to a single device and only if the sender was capable of 10Gbps).

 

Somewhat oddly, I can find no true reviews on any of these products, just stuff that appears to be restatements of the marketing materials from the manufacturers. Perhaps I need to reference the manuals that come with the AV Access and OREI extenders, although I suspect they won't have much additional technical information.

 

One other thing I'd like to know about the Icron unit is whether their 1Gbps ethernet pass through is totally transparent and protocol neutral. Thus, does it only handle ethernet protocols or does it act just like a straight-through cat 6 cable. If the latter then it might be possible to attach my existing USB2 extender to the ethernet ports of the Icron units. This would allow another four USB ports without having to use a hub on one of the Icon's four existing USB3 ports. Frankly, I don't think this would work since it's almost certain that the link between the extenders isn't really running over a true ethernet protocol (i.e. it's probably a proprietary, "raw" data stream) while the Icron probably expects to see an ethernet protocol at its input port. But, this may be something that I can check in either the manual or from Icron support.

 

Icron also makes quite expensive USB2 extenders so it seems likely that someone, somewhere has asked if you can attach one of those to the Icron Raven's ethernet port. So, it might be possible to find someone at Icron who knows enough about their products to answer this question, but it probably won't be easy to find that person and as I've already suggested it almost certainly won't work. However, if it did then that would be another item in the Raven's favor.

Edited by james7ca, 29 March 2025 - 02:07 AM.

[james7ca]

I asked the Google AI whether you could attach a second USB extender to the Raven's ethernet port and it said, "Yes you can, you can use a second USB extender on the Raven's ethernet port." But, I also noticed that it was referencing my post here on CN when I clicked on the link icon in their answer. I didn't believe the AI's answer so I then spent about one hour looking on the internet to try and find a definitive answer and I couldn't so I went back to Google and asked the same question (via copy and paste) and it said, "No, you can't attach a second USB extender to the Raven's ethernet port since that is a point-to-point connection designed to connect the extender's sender and receiver units." Both of the above are my summaries from Google's extended explanations.

 

So, both answers seem to be incorrect, since in the first case I think the AI was dead wrong and in the second answer the AI was obviously talking about the extender's LINK connection, not its ethernet LAN connection.

 

The AI also says that you can't daisy chain the Icron extenders and I can't see why that would be true since another extender should just look like a USB hub. But, if the AI is correct it may have something to do with the delays that happen in the signal propagation. However, for the latter I doubt that the AI is really that "smart," it's probably just making a conclusion based on a seemingly related post it found on the internet.

 

That said, when you start seeing your own posts listed in a Google search you know you've probably reached a dead end.

 

I also read the user manual on the Raven and Icron's white paper on their ExtremeUSB technology and the only new thing I learned is that you can attach up to three USB hubs to the Raven's receiver (previously I had only read that you can attach up to 30 devices). They call the receiving unit the REX, as for being the extender's remote/receiving unit -- they call the other unit a LEX (local extender) which is what I've termed the sending unit and I guess they couldn't have called that the S...EX).

 

However, I did find some posts on Reddit that asked about the protocol that was used on the Icron USB extenders and the most common answer was that it used a custom chip set and a proprietary protocol. One other person said it was proprietary but that the "LAN passthrough though. Works like a charm." Also, on Reddit one user said "Creston [should be Crestron] and Vaddio use the same box in a different color. Other companies like AV Pro Edge use the chipset but a different box."

 

[UPDATE]

The Q&A on the Icron website says that they have tested daisy chaining with the following combination of extenders:

 

3022 and 3001-15

3104 and 3251C

However, they don't explicitly say that daisy chaining will NOT work on their other extenders. But, the above combinations only combine a multi-port extender with a single port extender and perhaps that makes sense as if you daisy chained multiple multi-port extenders you'd eventually run short on bandwidth if you tried to install devices on all of the ports.

 

So, it looks like the Google AI was wrong again since you can daisy chain some of Icron's extenders.

 

Also, while looking over the other parts of the Q&A I see that they claim that you can't use your own power supply with their extenders, but they don't actually say that doing so will void your warranty. But, the full statement seems to be a somewhat veiled threat.

 

Also, the Q&A says that the LINK connection between the LEX and REX is in an unencrypted but proprietary format.

[/UPDATE] 

Edited by james7ca, 29 March 2025 - 07:35 AM.

[james7ca]

Okay, I just looked at the manual for the Icron Ranger 2304 USB2 extender to see if they said anything about using that with one of the Icron USB3 extenders and I didn't find any information on that in the manual.

 

Then I went to Google and asked the following, "can a Icron Ranger 2304 be connected to the LAN output of a Icron Raven."

 

The answer (ha!) was:

 

Yes, you can connect an Icron Ranger 2304 to the LAN output of an Icron Raven, assuming the specific Icron Raven model supports it. However, there are some caveats related to network configuration and power options.

Then, the AI goes on to say:

 

Use CAT 5e/6/7 cabling to connect the Local Extender (LEX) of the Ranger 2304 to the LAN port of the Raven, and then connect the Remote Extender (REX) to the desired remote host or device.

So, I suspect that the AI is wrong again. It looks like it just depends on when and how you ask the questions.

 

Just to be clear, below is the kind of setup I'm talking about when combining a Ranger 2304 USB2 extender with a Raven 3104 USB3 extender (but, I'm pretty certain this will NOT work):

 

USB2 transfer chain:  host computer USB2 output > [Icron Ranger LEX USB2 input -- Icron Ranger LINK output] > ...short ethernet cable...>  [Icron Raven LEX LAN input -- Icron Raven LINK output] > ...LINK at 10Gbps, long Cat 6a cable... >[Icron Raven REX LINK input -- Icron Raven LAN output] > ...short ethernet cable...> [Icron Ranger REX LINK input -- Icron Ranger USB2 output] > USB2 device

 

I suspect this will fail because the Raven 3104's LEX LAN input won't be able to handle the proprietary data stream that is output from the Ranger 2304's LEX LINK output (shown in bold in the above diagram). The other issue is that the LINK output from the Ranger may exceed the data rate that can be carried by the Raven's 1Gbps LAN port. Power shouldn't be an issue since the Ranger's LEX get power from the host computer via the USB connection and the Raven is powered on both ends by its own power supplies while the Ranger's REX has a separate power supply.

 

The reason you might want a setup like this is that having four USB3 and four USB2 outputs on the remote side is better than having four USB3 outputs when just using the Icron Raven by itself. Of course, a cheaper and more simple method would be to attach a USB2 hub to one of the Raven's USB3 output ports. That would still leave three USB3 ports open on the Raven REX. But, if you already have a USB2 extender then you might want to know whether the above could work (I think NOT, but can't be completely certain). The other advantage is that the USB2 would be using the bandwidth from the Raven's 1Gbps LAN port, not from the Raven's USB3 ports (adding another 1Gbps to the total output data stream).

 

I suspect if I wait for a short amount of time Google may scan my post and change what its AI says.

 

[UPDATE]

I just asked Google using a slight rewording of my original question (more correct or complete, I think, "can an Icron Ranger 2304 be connected to the LAN ports of a Icron Raven") and the Google AI said:

 

Yes, the Icron Ranger 2304 can be connected to the LAN ports of an Icron Raven, allowing for USB extension over a network. The Ranger 2304 is a 4-port USB 2.0 extender designed to connect to a network via the Ethernet ports, while the Raven is also a USB extender that can be connected to the network.

Looking at the entire answer output by Google I can see that the AI may have some "weasel room" since it suggests that the Ranger LEX's LINK can be connected to the LINK port on a Raven REX which might actually work but that would be kind of a dumb thing to do since it would convert the Raven to a USB2-speed extender.

 

I know, this is getting way too complicated but maybe I'll be able to get an answer about this from Icron sometime next week.

[/UPDATE]

Edited by james7ca, 29 March 2025 - 07:32 AM.

[james7ca]

The AV Access manual says that the device supports isochronous transfers but I could NOT find anything on the LINK data rate. So, since they say again and again that the data rate can be up to 5Gbps perhaps I'll just assume that the LINK rate is also 5Gbps. This MIGHT help to explain why the Icron is more expensive since I watched the Icron sales manage on Youtube say that the Raven has a LINK rate of 10Gbps and thus this is why they can support their 1Gbps LAN port. This 10Gbps LINK rate may also give the Icron more headroom in achieving the 5Gbps needed for the host's USB3 connection.

Edited by james7ca, 29 March 2025 - 08:13 AM.

[james7ca]

After some further digging on the internet I think I can be certain that you can NOT connect just any USB extender including most of the units from Icron to the LAN ports on the Icron Raven. In fact, I found several bits of information at Icronshop.com (an Icron distributor) that seem to answer a few of my previous questions.

 

1.) Icronshop.com says that you CAN use your own power supply with the Icron products but that the power supply will not be covered by your Icron warranty (duh, that seems quite obvious). However, they go on to recommend that you check the power requirements of the Icron product before you try to substitute your own power supply (yes, that would be wise to do).

 

2.) You apparently can use a USB2 extender on the LAN ports of an Icron USB3 extender but you need to use one of Icron's USB 2.0 Ethernet LAN Extender Systems that support connections over both "GigE Local Area Network (LAN) or [that are] directly connect over CAT 5e/6/7 cabling." Thus, Icron makes two different types of USB2 extenders, one that supports both LAN and direct/point-to-point Cat 5e/6/7 cabling and another that can only run over direct Cat 5e/6/7 cabling (i.e. the point-to-point LINK connection that runs between most of Icron's LEX and REX units).  Since they produce two different types of USB2 extenders it seems obvious that you can't use the standard Ranger 2304 or any other generic USB2 extender using the Raven's 1Gbps LAN connection. The standard Ranger 2304 does not have any support for connection of its LEX/REX over a LAN but the Icron Ranger 2304GE-LAN does.

 

Here is a link to Icronshop.com that shows this behavior in a comparison chart: https://www.icronsho...tenders-operate

 

All this said, I can't find anything that says you can definitely use the LAN port on a Raven with Icron's Ranger 2304GE-LAN, but it seems obvious that you can't do it with the standard Ranger 2304.

 

Okay, so what's the difference in price between the Ranger 2304 and the Ranger 2304GE-LAN? The former lists for about $400 while the latter goes for something like $450 (as I said earlier the Icon USB2 extenders are very expensive). But, once again there seems to be a range on the internet pricing, some higher than what I've suggested, a few that are lower, and on eBay you may find used units that are notably cheaper. Be aware, however, that some eBay sellers are offering the LEX or REX separately or even without power supplies.

 

Actually, the standard Ranger 2304 seems like a very poor deal since you can get four-port, USB2 extenders than run over Cat 6a cabling for about $60 on Amazon. However, the Ranger 2304GE-LAN could be a rather unique product (maybe, but I'm not going to spend any more time on this so I don't know for sure).

 

I think this will be the end to my posts on USB3 extenders over Cat 6a/7 cables. But, hopefully someone will come forward with additional information or reports on their actual use of any such extenders.

 

However, I may offer some more test results when using my E-SDS USB2 extender.

 

[UPDATE]

I was searching for information on whether anyone else made a product like Icron's Ranger 2304GE-LAN and I found a few links and one of those referenced the following thread in the CN archives (from 2018):

 

  https://www.cloudyni...t/#entry8911263

 

This link/topic more or less confirms what I've learned over the last 24 hours and what I summarized in this current post.

[/UPDATE]

Edited by james7ca, 29 March 2025 - 12:25 PM.

[astrohamp]

james': you say there is a scope side mini PC. Assuming it is adequate to accept USB (2, 3) connections from all your tech and that the PC can monitor/control/access same.  Have you considered a point-to-point wireless bridge (operating as Ethernet) to span the line-of-sight distance.  100 feet can be a bit of a stretch for WiFi coverage, at speed that is.  And an Ethernet (any) cable to the instrument is just that.

 

I have successfully obtained 5Ghz channel speeds of 400-450 Mbps at 80+ feet in field, battery powered. Also in back yard through window glass using this unit pair.  12v to 24v POE power adapters can be had which I use when off the grid.

 

Just a thought on a possible alternative.  One that operates as an Ethernet connection to any appliance so implemented.