44 replies to this topic

[The Rigger]

I'm getting the urge to put the cameras away for an evening or two every so often and explore visual astronomy. The trouble is I need to keep my glasses on while viewing; I have an astigmatism in both eyes, so as much as I'd like to ditch the specs and let my far-sighted eyes work unassisted, it's just not really an option. I'm looking for recommendations for long-eye-relief 1.25" eyepieces to work with a Celestron EdgeHD 800. So far the TeleVue DeLite and Delos lines look like they'd do the job quite well (and for what they cost, they bloody well should), what other non-budget, not-quite-premium LER eyepiece lines might I consider?

 

I don't believe I'd go longer than 40mm nor shorter than 6.5mm-7mm. A wider FoV seems attractive too, depending on what the target might be.

 

Thoughts?

[PNW]

The AstroTech Paradigm's work well in my Nexstar 8. They are from our sponsor,  Astronomics (to the right.) Or you could spend a little more for the Celestron X-Cell Lx's.

Edited by PNW, 28 March 2025 - 01:23 AM.

[izar187]

I'm getting the urge to put the cameras away for an evening or two every so often and explore visual astronomy. The trouble is I need to keep my glasses on while viewing; I have an astigmatism in both eyes, so as much as I'd like to ditch the specs and let my far-sighted eyes work unassisted, it's just not really an option. I'm looking for recommendations for long-eye-relief 1.25" eyepieces to work with a Celestron EdgeHD 800. So far the TeleVue DeLite and Delos lines look like they'd do the job quite well (and for what they cost, they bloody well should), what other non-budget, not-quite-premium LER eyepiece lines might I consider?

 

I don't believe I'd go longer than 40mm nor shorter than 6.5mm-7mm. A wider FoV seems attractive too, depending on what the target might be.

 

Thoughts?

Also consider Siebert Ultras:

https://www.sieberto...eces-ultra.html

Call and talk to the man who makes them, before ordering.

Edited by izar187, 28 March 2025 - 09:30 AM.

[Lagrange]

Some UFF eyepiece from APM and other brands are a good choice for glasses wearers and are relatively inexpensive.

 

The 18mm and 24mm are 65 degree 1.25" eyepieces that have 20mm and 29mm eye relief, respectively. The 24mm UFF is an affordable alternative to the 24mm TeleVue Panoptic - not quite as good, but very respectable and a better choice if you need glasses.

 

The 30mm UFF is the best of the range and is a 70 degree 2" eyepiece with 22mm eye relief.

[SeattleScott]

Some UFF eyepiece from APM and other brands are a good choice for glasses wearers and are relatively inexpensive.

The 18mm and 24mm are 65 degree 1.25" eyepieces that have 20mm and 29mm eye relief, respectively. The 24mm UFF is an affordable alternative to the 24mm TeleVue Panoptic - not quite as good, but very respectable and a better choice if you need glasses.

The 30mm UFF is the best of the range and is a 70 degree 2" eyepiece with 22mm eye relief.

From what I understand, the 18, 24 and 30 are generally considered glasses compatible (although that can vary by person). The 10 and 15 aren’t considered glasses compatible for most people.

There are also 14mm 70 AFOV and 22mm 70 AFOV eyepieces that are considered good value picks. Sold under a variety of labels.

I saw a couple Pentax XWs on Amazon yesterday for $200. I don’t need them myself, but they are premium quality, similar AFOV and ER to Delos, for considerably less money. Of course it’s Amazon, so the price yesterday could be gone and back to the normal $269 today. But if you can get a true premium eyepiece for $200 instead of a pretty good eyepiece for $150, that might be worth considering.

Edited by SeattleScott, 28 March 2025 - 02:23 PM.

[The Rigger]

Or you could spend a little more for the Celestron X-Cell Lx's.

I thought the Excel LXs only have something like a 16mm eye relief; wouldn't one need 20 or better to work with eyeglasses?

 

I'll look at the Paradigms, though (pardon the pun). Thanks!

Edited by The Rigger, 28 March 2025 - 04:18 PM.

[T1R2]

The 18mm Paradign was just barely doable with glasses, I still had to push against the eye piece to see the entire fov, I ended up taking off the rubber eye cup and make one that was even more below profile for use with glasses. 

[k.darwin]

I too need to wear glasses so long eye relieve is a make-or-break concern.  I've tried several approaches 

 

• Celestron Excel LX - Enough ER.  I had 3 of them and all worked just fine.
• Baader Hyperion zoom - Not enough ER.
• Celestron 8-24 Zoom - A bit tight at 24mm but from 8 to about 18 eye relief is shockingly sufficient.
• Televue 25mm Plossl - Not enough ER.
• Edmund 28mm RKE - Lots of ER.  Almost too much.
• TeleVue Delite - Practically Perfect in Every Way ™.
• Celestron Omni 32mm - Just enough ER
• Televue Plossl 32mm - Enough ER

I've standardized on Delites.  They provide good views and uniform eye relief to let me get on with the task at hand.  Ironically, the Excel LX line worked for me about as well as the Delites.  ER was uniformly good as was apparent FoV.  I've stuck with the Televue simply because I believe them to be better but I keep thinking I should repurchase some Excel LX and compare them with the Delites.  I may find I can switch and save a pile of cash.

 

I hear the Paradigms and Excel LX are the same optically, but the Paradigms all seem to have the eye lens sunk deeper into the housing which makes me think they'll have less useable ER than the Celestron versions.  But I've not tired them so I don't know for sure.

 

Quoted ER specs are unreliable.  I think they frequently quote designed ER, not actual measured ER.  An eyepiece designed for 20mm of ER put in a housing where the eye lens is sunk 4mm below the surface may only deliver 16mm of ER.

 

Visual astigmatism becomes less apparent as exit pupil shrinks.  I need my glasses down to about 1mm of EP.  Below that, my astigmatism evaporates.  So I can use my 9mm Delite in my f/10 and f/12 scope with no glasses.

[Starman1]

I'm getting the urge to put the cameras away for an evening or two every so often and explore visual astronomy. The trouble is I need to keep my glasses on while viewing; I have an astigmatism in both eyes, so as much as I'd like to ditch the specs and let my far-sighted eyes work unassisted, it's just not really an option. I'm looking for recommendations for long-eye-relief 1.25" eyepieces to work with a Celestron EdgeHD 800. So far the TeleVue DeLite and Delos lines look like they'd do the job quite well (and for what they cost, they bloody well should), what other non-budget, not-quite-premium LER eyepiece lines might I consider?

 

I don't believe I'd go longer than 40mm nor shorter than 6.5mm-7mm. A wider FoV seems attractive too, depending on what the target might be.

 

Thoughts?

High quality images:

Tele Vue Nagler 31mm (Type 5), 22mm (Type 4)

Tele Vue Panoptic 41mm, 35mm

Tele Vue Delite--3-18.2mm

Tele Vue Delos--3.5-17.3mm

Tele Vue Nagler T7--5.5-19mm(coming in June)

Baader Hyperion-- 5-21mm (available under several labels)

Baader Morpheus--4.5-17.5mm

Pentax XW 70°--3.5-40mm

Astromania 70° SWA 22mm, 17mm (available under many labels)  very cost effective.

APM UFF eyepieces--30mm, 24mm, 18mm (available under many labels)  very cost effective.

Nikon NAV-SW 72°--5-17.5mm

APM Super Zoom (7.7-15.4mm)  very cost effective

 

Decent set to cover most use: 40mm, 20mm, 13-14mm, 10mm (basically 50x, 100x, 150x, 200x).

Suggestion: APM Super Zoom (66-67° field), 22mm Astromania 70°, 30mm UFF 70°

The 22mm is available as: Arcturus Ebony, Astromania SWA, Omegon Redline, SkyWatcher Super Wide Angle, Tecnosky Superwide HD, Telescope Service Expanse

The 30mm is available as: Altair Astro UFF, APM UFF, Celestron Ultima Edge, Sky Rover UFF, Stellalyra UltraFlat, Stellarvue UFF, Tecnosky UFF, Meade UHD (still some in dealer stock)

Those companies all ship world-wide, but I highlighted in red the ones available from US vendors.

[25585]

Three zooms I use have long eye relief;

 

Vixen LV 8-24

Pentax XL 8-24

Svbony 7-21

[T1R2]

I too need to wear glasses so long eye relieve is a make-or-break concern.  I've tried several approaches 

 

• Celestron Excel LX - Enough ER.  I had 3 of them and all worked just fine.
• Baader Hyperion zoom - Not enough ER.
• Celestron 8-24 Zoom - A bit tight at 24mm but from 8 to about 18 eye relief is shockingly sufficient.
• Televue 25mm Plossl - Not enough ER.
• Edmund 28mm RKE - Lots of ER.  Almost too much.
• TeleVue Delite - Practically Perfect in Every Way ™.
• Celestron Omni 32mm - Just enough ER
• Televue Plossl 32mm - Enough ER

I've standardized on Delites.  They provide good views and uniform eye relief to let me get on with the task at hand.  Ironically, the Excel LX line worked for me about as well as the Delites.  ER was uniformly good as was apparent FoV.  I've stuck with the Televue simply because I believe them to be better but I keep thinking I should repurchase some Excel LX and compare them with the Delites.  I may find I can switch and save a pile of cash.

 

I hear the Paradigms and Excel LX are the same optically, but the Paradigms all seem to have the eye lens sunk deeper into the housing which makes me think they'll have less useable ER than the Celestron versions.  But I've not tired them so I don't know for sure.

 

Quoted ER specs are unreliable.  I think they frequently quote designed ER, not actual measured ER.  An eyepiece designed for 20mm of ER put in a housing where the eye lens is sunk 4mm below the surface may only deliver 16mm of ER.

 

Visual astigmatism becomes less apparent as exit pupil shrinks.  I need my glasses down to about 1mm of EP.  Below that, my astigmatism evaporates.  So I can use my 9mm Delite in my f/10 and f/12 scope with no glasses.

The Paradigms and the Excel (Meade HD60's) are not the same design. not even close.  I know because I've taken the HD60 apart, and the 18mm AT Paradigm. All the Meade HD 60 have the same number of lens in the same order, just with different curves on the field lenses, the Paradigm 18mm was 3 widely spaced singlets

[SeattleScott]

I thought the Excel LXs only have something like a 16mm eye relief; wouldn't one need 20 or better to work with eyeglasses?

 

I'll look at the Paradigms, though (pardon the pun). Thanks!

Most people can see the whole view with glasses if they have 16-17mm of ER. Some need 19-20. I believe Xcel LX vary between 16 and 18 based on focal length. Or at least their Meade cousins did. 

 

Paradigms don't have enough ER for viewing the whole field with glasses. Unless you like pressing your glasses against the eyepiece.

[Starman1]

The 18mm Paradigm loses a lens according to people here on CN.

It has 5 lenses in 4 groups--a 1:2:1:1 configuration, compared to the 1:2:1:2 configuration in the shorter focal lengths.

From the mfr: "Fully multi coated optics; 5 lens elements in 4 groups"

 

The mfr says the internal configuration is similar to the 25mm, and claims it has 5 lenses.

Here is a dismantled 25mm:

https://www.cloudyni...r-disassembled/

 

If you only found 3 singlets, it would seem something was improperly assembled--at the factory or by the previous owner.

Edited by Starman1, 28 March 2025 - 06:49 PM.

[T1R2]

The 18mm Paradigm loses a lens according to people here on CN.

It has 5 lenses in 4 groups--a 1:2:1:1 configuration, compared to the 1:2:1:2 configuration in the shorter focal lengths.

From the mfr: "Fully multi coated optics; 5 lens elements in 4 groups"

 

The mfr says the internal configuration is similar to the 25mm, and claims it has 5 lenses.

Here is a dismantled 25mm:

https://www.cloudyni...r-disassembled/

 

If you only found 3 singlets, it would seem something was improperly assembled--at the factory or by the previous owner.

No, I meant 3 lenses in the body, not the nose section. So yes, 5 in all including the negative section.

Edited by T1R2, 28 March 2025 - 08:37 PM.

[eblanken]

Hi to All,

 

I use Pentax XW 68 Deg. AFoV and

         TeleVue DeLite 62 Deg. AFoV

         Baader Hyperion 68 Deg. AFoV

         Vixen LV 45-50 Deg. AFoV

 

All have 20mm of eye relief (ER) and work well with my eyeglasses and my need for LER . . . 

 

Best,

 

Ed

 

P.S. Private Message (PM) me if you want. I know the LER situation . . . 

[SeattleScott]

Another possibility. You might consider a used Pentax XL, Vixen LVW or TV Radian. They typically sell for about $150, similar to second tier long ER eyepieces. Premium eyepieces. Granted they are older, discontinued models. 60-65 AFOV, not 70-72. And obviously you are buying used, not new. But you can get premium quality for half the price of a Delite, Delos, Nikon SW, Morpheus.

[k.darwin]

I too need to wear glasses so long eye relieve is a make-or-break concern.  I've tried several approaches 

 

• Celestron Excel LX - Enough ER.  I had 3 of them and all worked just fine.
• Baader Hyperion zoom - Not enough ER.
• Celestron 8-24 Zoom - A bit tight at 24mm but from 8 to about 18 eye relief is shockingly sufficient.
• Televue 25mm Plossl - Not enough ER.
• Edmund 28mm RKE - Lots of ER.  Almost too much.
• TeleVue Delite - Practically Perfect in Every Way ™.
• Celestron Omni 32mm - Just enough ER
• Televue Plossl 32mm - Enough ER

I've standardized on Delites.  They provide good views and uniform eye relief to let me get on with the task at hand.  Ironically, the Excel LX line worked for me about as well as the Delites.  ER was uniformly good as was apparent FoV.  I've stuck with the Televue simply because I believe them to be better but I keep thinking I should repurchase some Excel LX and compare them with the Delites.  I may find I can switch and save a pile of cash.

 

I hear the Paradigms and Excel LX are the same optically, but the Paradigms all seem to have the eye lens sunk deeper into the housing which makes me think they'll have less useable ER than the Celestron versions.  But I've not tired them so I don't know for sure.

 

Quoted ER specs are unreliable.  I think they frequently quote designed ER, not actual measured ER.  An eyepiece designed for 20mm of ER put in a housing where the eye lens is sunk 4mm below the surface may only deliver 16mm of ER.

 

Visual astigmatism becomes less apparent as exit pupil shrinks.  I need my glasses down to about 1mm of EP.  Below that, my astigmatism evaporates.  So I can use my 9mm Delite in my f/10 and f/12 scope with no glasses.

CORRECTION - The Celestron zoom has good eye relief from about 18mm to 24mm and it gets a bit tight at 8mm.

[iKMN]

One other thing not mentioned is depending on how much astigmatism you have you may only need glasses at larger exit pupils so you may be able to get away without glasses at higher powers.  So you should experiment,  I mean you could very well need the glasses on everything but just saying.   I have astigmatism too but only need glasses with exit pupils >3mm.   I just use a dioptrx on my 31mm T6 it’s like magic once dialed in.    If that’s not the case I like the Pentax XWs, Morpheus and Delos/Delites if using glasses no particular order.  The XWs go on sale quite often for around $260 USD which I think is a steal for a premium eyepiece.  They are all good though. I would get the 30XW 2” inch for low power for a C8? But if you roll 1.25 only it will be tough to find something glasses compatible in the 24-30 range except maybe plossls or pseudo Masuyamas.  I like the Pan 24 but not sure it really is glasses friendly.   Maybe 24 UFF is.  Good luck and clear skies.

 

k

[davidgmd]

One other thing not mentioned is depending on how much astigmatism you have you may only need glasses at larger exit pupils so you may be able to get away without glasses at higher powers.  So you should experiment,  I mean you could very well need the glasses on everything but just saying.   I have astigmatism too but only need glasses with exit pupils >3mm.   I just use a dioptrx on my 31mm T6 it’s like magic once dialed in.    If that’s not the case I like the Pentax XWs, Morpheus and Delos/Delites if using glasses no particular order.  The XWs go on sale quite often for around $260 USD which I think is a steal for a premium eyepiece.  They are all good though. I would get the 30XW 2” inch for low power for a C8? But if you roll 1.25 only it will be tough to find something glasses compatible in the 24-30 range except maybe plossls or pseudo Masuyamas.  I like the Pan 24 but not sure it really is glasses friendly.   Maybe 24 UFF is.  Good luck and clear skies.

 

k

  
And Tele Vue has a guide to how much astigmatism is visible at a given exit pupil. Not perfect for everyone, but a good starting point and it’s pretty accurate for me. https://televue.com/...=54&Tab=_Choose

 

 

 
 

[izar187]

One other thing not mentioned is depending on how much astigmatism you have you may only need glasses at larger exit pupils so you may be able to get away without glasses at higher powers.

________________________

 

True, but full time astigmatism corrected 20/20 vision outside at night is a very good thing.

Thru the scope, ep's, finder, reading screens, charts, seeing the sky, ground under foot, around the site.

Without having to futz with glasses on/off all the time, or even some of the time.

Just like those fine folks who do not need glasses can do.  : )

Well working 20mm(+/-) eye relief eyepieces make it possible.

Great for sharing the view with others too.

Edited by izar187, 31 March 2025 - 12:51 AM.

[eblanken]

+1 on what (aka izar187) said . . . I know lots on this topic . . . eyepieces are very personal choices . . . so are frames that we choose to put on our face and dictate our lens choices . . . I wear big aviator frames and trifocal lined (that's six prescriptions, people) which work for me and my brain . . . I've tried just single vision and dedicated bifocals, etc. but what works for me may or may not work for others . . .

 

I expect Dr. David G. or Dr. Steve S. to expound, but the Eye Relief (ER) interacts with the choice of Vertex distance you have already chosen in your frames and lenses . . . so for me, I plan for 20mm of ER . . . sometimes I can live with 17-18mm, but 15mm would require me to ditch my glasses and get specialized pair of glasses and my brain would have to adjust to them . . . and I would have a "long-lash-problem" . . . 

 

Very Best Regards,

 

Ed

Edited by eblanken, 31 March 2025 - 01:29 AM.

[25585]

Effective eye relief is what counts, of course. That is reduced if an eye lens is recessed, or eye height needs to be increased for easier eye placement, which reduces seen FoV.

 

As I wear glasses all the time, the eyepieces (& binoculars) I use are those that work best, which was an expensive but necessary journey of discovery. Scopes come & go, but eyepieces are the oxygen of visual astronomy.

[quilty]

My experience is that 20mm ER is not enough for eyeglasses. 25-30 mm at least

[Starman1]

My experience is that 20mm ER is not enough for eyeglasses. 25-30 mm at least

This depends solely on how deep the eye lens of the eyepiece is.

I have measured as little as 1.5mm to as much as 20mm (!).

Needless to say, the amount of Design eye relief those two eyepieces would need to be usable with glasses would be radically different.

I have measured eyepieces with 20mm of eye relief that only had 12mm above the rubber eyecup.

How much Effective eye relief above the rubber eyecup you need is the figure you need to know, but, alas, it is almost never specified.

I have an eyepiece with about 20mm of Effective eye relief, and it proved to be too much for my glasses--I had to add o-rings under the eyecup to reduce the effective eye relief.

And I have deep-set eyes and a large vertex distance (eye to glasses lens).

It's too bad, but, unfortunately, we cannot tell if an eyepiece is going to be glasses-compatible just from the manufacturer's statement of Design eye relief.

[SeattleScott]

Well it also depends on the shape of one’s face, and glasses.

No one is out there making 25mm+ ER eyepieces. You might see it in a scaled design like a 40mm Plossl, or the 24mm UFF, but no one is making a series with that much eye relief. Even before subtracting a concave lens.