46 replies to this topic

[25585]

One thing about glasses, they give a flat surface to rest gently on, so eyeball depth only affects vertex distance. With me big eye lenses are in, good effective eye relief is in, pointy volcano tops are out, difficult eye positioning is out.

[25585]

This depends solely on how deep the eye lens of the eyepiece is.

I have measured as little as 1.5mm to as much as 20mm (!).

Needless to say, the amount of Design eye relief those two eyepieces would need to be usable with glasses would be radically different.

I have measured eyepieces with 20mm of eye relief that only had 12mm above the rubber eyecup.

How much Effective eye relief above the rubber eyecup you need is the figure you need to know, but, alas, it is almost never specified.

I have an eyepiece with about 20mm of Effective eye relief, and it proved to be too much for my glasses--I had to add o-rings under the eyecup to reduce the effective eye relief.

And I have deep-set eyes and a large vertex distance (eye to glasses lens).

It's too bad, but, unfortunately, we cannot tell if an eyepiece is going to be glasses-compatible just from the manufacturer's statement of Design eye relief.

Of the 4 expensive gambles I took on glasses compatibility for me, only one lost - a 41mm Panoptic, due to its form factor design. 
 

The other three were the two ES92s, from your review of the 12mm Don, others' reviews of the 17mm, and the 12.5mm Docter/Noblex UWA. 

 

Less expensively, relatively, disappointments were a Takahashi 30mm TAO, 30mm LE and I almost bought a Masuyama, but looking at photos, their eye lenses all seem recessed no matter the FL.

 

Others I have avoided are mainly TV Delos due to eye placement, but not eye relief. What no answer there seems to be is, why some LER eyepieces are easy to use wearing glasses, e.g. Morpheus, some Pentax XWs, some Nikon SWs, ES92s, some Delites, Noblex, APM 12.5mm UW, Hyperions - while others like Delos, Radians, some Delites, Nagler T4s, some Pentax XWs etc. are not.

There must be some factors, somewhere, in the optical designs that makes the difference, and how that does.

[TayM57]

Of the 4 expensive gambles I took on glasses compatibility for me, only one lost - a 41mm Panoptic, due to its form factor design. 
 

The other three were the two ES92s, from your review of the 12mm Don, others' reviews of the 17mm, and the 12.5mm Docter/Noblex UWA. 

 

Less expensively, relatively, disappointments were a Takahashi 30mm TAO, 30mm LE and I almost bought a Masuyama, but looking at photos, their eye lenses all seem recessed no matter the FL.

 

Others I have avoided are mainly TV Delos due to eye placement, but not eye relief. What no answer there seems to be is, why some LER eyepieces are easy to use wearing glasses, e.g. Morpheus, some Pentax XWs, some Nikon SWs, ES92s, some Delites, Noblex, APM 12.5mm UW, Hyperions - while others like Delos, Radians, some Delites, Nagler T4s, some Pentax XWs etc. are not.

There must be some factors, somewhere, in the optical designs that makes the difference, and how that does.

 

There is some merit to what Don is saying though. EPs with flat lens tend to be the easiest to use. My Morphii are good examples of this. Delites too. Less so with the Delos.

 

I plan to have a "final" set of Delites, Delos, Morphii, ES92s, and I'll probably stop there. That's about as good as it gets for eye glasses wearers.

 

[fishhuntmike]

Of the 4 expensive gambles I took on glasses compatibility for me, only one lost - a 41mm Panoptic, due to its form factor design.

The other three were the two ES92s, from your review of the 12mm Don, others' reviews of the 17mm, and the 12.5mm Docter/Noblex UWA.

Perhaps you have already done this but if not give it a try.... Unthread the volcano top w/eyeguard from the 41mm panoptic to give more eye relief and even more apparent field of view that the folded down rubber eyeguard seems to reduce slightly.

Love my ES92 17mm!

[Starman1]

There is some merit to what Don is saying though. EPs with flat lens tend to be the easiest to use. My Morphii are good examples of this. Delites too. Less so with the Delos.

 

I plan to have a "final" set of Delites, Delos, Morphii, ES92s, and I'll probably stop there. That's about as good as it gets for eye glasses wearers.

And, perhaps, the Tele Vue Type 7 Naglers.

[izar187]

FWIW

 

Siebert Ultra's: I've had 4 for over 20 years. All 1.25"

Flat eye lenses, recessed 1mm when with eye cup folded down.

Max total diameter on ep body with eye cup folded down is 43mm,

for those looking for binoviewing options.

 

Siebert SS4: I've had a 5mm for just the last few years.

Slightly convex eye lens, recessed less than a mm when with small soft eye cup folded down.

Max total diameter of ep with eye cup folded down is 38mm.

 

For my particular small as possible  single line bifocal glasses:

Vertex eye to glasses lens distance is 12 to 13mm.

Edited by izar187, 31 March 2025 - 03:20 PM.

[star acres]

I let a lot of people look through my little Sky-Watcher. My eyepieces are 17 MM relief SvBony Red Bands and 20 MM Zhumells. I don't tell people to take off their glasses. They focus if they need to and have no problems to date. 

[TayM57]

And, perhaps, the Tele Vue Type 7 Naglers.

Perhaps so. If the advertised ER was 20mm, more in line with the Delos/Delites, I would be more optimistic. The advertised ER of 19mm however, gives me pause.

 

I'll end up getting one, but it's got to be comfortable to look though. The N22T4 and A11, I have to contact the rubber guard with my glasses. Not so with the Morphii, Delites, Delos, ES92s.

[quilty]

Well it also depends on the shape of one’s face, and glasses.

No one is out there making 25mm+ ER eyepieces. You might see it in a scaled design like a 40mm Plossl, or the 24mm UFF, but no one is making a series with that much eye relief. Even before subtracting a concave lens.

To properly work 25 mm at least. surely without rubber stuff and other eyeshells. Regardless if special extra thin eyeglass/ep/eye position combination does at less ER. What about binos?
still more ER necessary

Volcano shaped eyepieces might get away with just 20 mm

Edited by quilty, 01 April 2025 - 06:15 AM.

[25585]

Perhaps you have already done this but if not give it a try.... Unthread the volcano top w/eyeguard from the 41mm panoptic to give more eye relief and even more apparent field of view that the folded down rubber eyeguard seems to reduce slightly.

Love my ES92 17mm!

I tried removing the height adjustable volcano top, but its only bare painted metal, no groove for an eyecup, so woukd scratch my glasses, it was after that I sold it. My 40mm TV Wide Field was fine, the Panoptic optically was good, but that alone was not enough to keep it.

[25585]

And, perhaps, the Tele Vue Type 7 Naglers.

Depends on ease of eye positioning exit pupil attainment and retention. Who designed the T7s?

[Starman1]

Depends on ease of eye positioning exit pupil attainment and retention. Who designed the T7s?

Tele Vue has a new designer since Paul's passing.  I don't think they've publicly mentioned his name.

He's very good.  David had a hand in the mechanical design and prototype testing, which is designed to save as much weight as possible.

They're in the same weight range as the 30mm UFF, for comparison.

I found them easy to use with glasses, with a tad more eye relief than the 22mm Nagler.

Contrast on DSOs was excellent, field stops were in good focus, field presentation was flat and not too close to the eye.

 

I'm aware that I find eyepieces easy to use that you do not, but I like it when I have to press my glasses against the rubber eyecup and find that position perfect.

That prevents my head from wandering, moving in and out or back and forth and, more or less, eliminates any exit pupil misbehavior.

On the Morpheus eyepieces, that took some o-rings under the eyecups on a few focal lengths to achieve that.  The 9mm was difficult until I did that, and excellent thereafter.

On the T7s, I had to raise the eyecups a mm on each of them to get that stable position, so I think the effective eye relief is nice and long.

I have deep set eyes and a large vertex distance, so you know when I have to raise the eyecups, effective eye relief is long--probably OK for you, Richard.

Edited by Starman1, 01 April 2025 - 03:32 PM.

[25585]

Tele Vue has a new designer since Paul's passing.  I don't think they've publicly mentioned his name.

He's very good.  David had a hand in the mechanical design and prototype testing, which is designed to save as much weight as possible.

They're in the same weight range as the 30mm UFF, for comparison.

I found them easy to use with glasses, with a tad more eye relief than the 22mm Nagler.

Contrast on DSOs was excellent, field stops were in good focus, field presentation was flat and not too close to the eye.

 

I'm aware that I find eyepieces easy to use that you do not, but I like it when I have to press my glasses against the rubber eyecup and find that position perfect.

That prevents my head from wandering, moving in and out or back and forth and, more or less, eliminates any exit pupil misbehavior.

On the Morpheus eyepieces, that took some o-rings under the eyecups on a few focal lengths to achieve that.  The 9mm was difficult until I did that, and excellent thereafter.

On the T7s, I had to raise the eyecups a mm on each of them to get that stable position, so I think the effective eye relief is nice and long.

I have deep set eyes and a large vertex distance, so you know when I have to raise the eyecups, effective eye relief is long--probably OK for you, Richard.

Light pressing is fine, like my ES92s, 12mm especially. I would really like the T7s to work for me. I only sold my 22T4 because the LP 20mm was better with a decent eyecup. A 19mm T7 would be what I would try, though I find in many makes and ranges, as FL gets shorter, the exit pupil behaviour gets worse, even at larger sizes in short FL scopes - Pentax XWs & TV Delites being examples. 
 

However because ALL Delos (& Radians) were difficult, is why I am wary of the T7s. 

[TayM57]

I don't like pressing EPs against my glasses. It distracts from the observing experience. I do however, depending on the EP, rest the bridge of my nose against the rubber eye guard if the ER is short as not to allow hovering.

 

I like the Morphii, as it is easy to use them naked.

 

The T7's might make for good planetary EPs. Hopefully they sell well enough, so they remain available for some time.

 

Has it been confirmed though, that ES has officially abandoned the ES92s? It's been 8 years now. Seems like ES has focused their energies in the retail market for their scopes?

[fishhuntmike]

I tried removing the height adjustable volcano top, but its only bare painted metal, no groove for an eyecup, so woukd scratch my glasses, it was after that I sold it. My 40mm TV Wide Field was fine, the Panoptic optically was good, but that alone was not enough to keep it.

I understand. For me some glasses work a lot better than others. With my high profile "aviator" style glasses there is only a couple mm's between reaching the full field of view point and touching the bare metal, but two of my lower profile glasses give enough distance that I have no problem avoiding "touching". Glad you have alternatives.

[T1R2]

I had to use some stick glue and attach a foam rubber gasket/ washer to the top of my Meade MA25mm, Luckily I had a variety pack of different sizes and found one that was the right size. Stick glue is water soluble so it cleans up easily with a q-tip and some water if I want to remove it. 

[cduston44]

Also consider Siebert Ultras:

https://www.sieberto...eces-ultra.html

Call and talk to the man who makes them, before ordering.

I am intrigued by these eyepieces, but cannot find a spec sheet (a la Televue: https://www.televue....page.asp?id=214). In particular, our scope has a very short focal distance so we need to shop for eyepieces where the field stop distance is like 0.17 mm+. Does Seibert have such a thing, or should I just drop him a line?

[izar187]

I am intrigued by these eyepieces, but cannot find a spec sheet (a la Televue: https://www.televue....page.asp?id=214). In particular, our scope has a very short focal distance so we need to shop for eyepieces where the field stop distance is like 0.17 mm+. Does Seibert have such a thing, or should I just drop him a line?

 

As I understand it, his is a small one man or mom and pop shop.

Call him. It is the best way to contact him.

His number is on the web site specifically for this.

[Starman1]

I am intrigued by these eyepieces, but cannot find a spec sheet (a la Televue: https://www.televue....page.asp?id=214). In particular, our scope has a very short focal distance so we need to shop for eyepieces where the field stop distance is like 0.17 mm+. Does Seibert have such a thing, or should I just drop him a line?

Did you download the 2025 Eyepieces Buyers Guide on the Eyepieces Forum?

[The Rigger]

After reading the thread (and I'm still reading, so keep the input coming) I think for my initial attempts I'll try out a couple X-Cel LXs and see how things go. The relief numbers look like they'll work, and I can't miss by too much at that price.

[The Rigger]

Did you download the 2025 Eyepieces Buyers Guide on the Eyepieces Forum?

I did, and thank you very much for your labor.

[TayM57]

I use Don's EP guide to get ER specs, since they can be sometimes difficult to find on manufacturer's websites.