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North & South

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#1 Whiteduckwagglinginspace

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 11:59 AM

During my search for the most beautiful objects, I regularly came across objects that were located much too far south. Too bad, because those seemed to me to be the best objects.

To name a few:
Very happy to see the Orion nebula (sadly only during the winter), but from the Southern Hemisphere, you can also enjoy the Carina Nebula.
M13 is a great globular cluster, but Omega Centauri is even better!

The question: does the southern hemisphere contain the better objects?

 


Edited by Whiteduckwagglinginspace, 01 April 2025 - 12:06 PM.

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#2 Knasal

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 12:08 PM

The short answer is yes.


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#3 Brain&Force

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 12:09 PM

The southern hemisphere also gets access to two whole dwarf galaxies that most people in the northern hemisphere cannot see.


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#4 Astrojensen

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 12:35 PM

On the other hand, the northern hemisphere has M31 and M33, the two nearest spiral galaxies. We also have M81/M82, the brightest galaxy duo in the whole sky, as well as the two brightest planetary nebulae, M27 and M57. And the Pleiades... 

 

But the Milky Way is unquestionably better from the southern hemisphere.

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


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#5 Whiteduckwagglinginspace

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 01:20 PM

On the other hand, the northern hemisphere has M31 and M33, the two nearest spiral galaxies. We also have M81/M82, the brightest galaxy duo in the whole sky, as well as the two brightest planetary nebulae, M27 and M57. And the Pleiades... 

 

But the Milky Way is unquestionably better from the southern hemisphere.

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

They may be near, but personally I'm not very impressed by M31 and that counts even more for M33. I enjoy M81/M82, Whirlpool, Black Eye galaxy and the Leo Triplet much more.These are the most beautiful from my location, choosen from 64 galaxies, which I visited last few months. 
I can't really say something about the relative small Sombrero Galaxy yet: I can see it, but it's still very low at the horizon. I totally agree on M81/M82 and visit them almost every time I observe. 

Funny fact about The Hidden Galaxy: I still didn't found it. It lives up to its name


Edited by Whiteduckwagglinginspace, 01 April 2025 - 01:49 PM.

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#6 saemark30

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 01:50 PM

There are southern objects that are more exotic such as

1) the Small and Large Magellanic clouds totally missed by Northeners.

 

2) the Omega Globular and 47 Tucanae both bigger, brighter than M13.

 

3) the Tarantula Nebula in the Large Magellanic cloud is magnificant

 

4) much of Sagittarius and Scopius is too far south

 

Fortunately the North is counterbalanced by the beautiful objects Astrojensen mentioned along with the Perseus Double Cluster, North American Nebula and Veil Nebula for example.

 

Seeing the spiral galaxies M31, M33, M101 are best done under Bortle 1 or 2 skies. The spiral shapes are quite beautiful in 15x70 binoculars and RFTs.


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#7 triplemon

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 02:17 PM

The question: does the southern hemisphere contain the better objects?

The center of our galaxy is in the southern hemisphere.

 

That is biasing some eye candy that way.


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#8 12BH7

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 02:18 PM

I believe that there are more globular clusters viewable from the southern hemisphere. I'm not talking about the well known ones but the overall number of them.


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#9 Whiteduckwagglinginspace

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 02:35 PM

I believe that there are more globular clusters viewable from the southern hemisphere. I'm not talking about the well known ones but the overall number of them.

At this moment, I have 'only' 18 globular clusters on my list: these are only the better/brighter ones of the northern hemisphere.
 



#10 Brain&Force

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 02:43 PM

They may be near, but personally I'm not very impressed by M31 and that counts even more for M33. I enjoy M81/M82, Whirlpool, Black Eye galaxy and the Leo Triplet much more.These are the most beautiful from my location, choosen from 64 galaxies, which I visited last few months. 
I can't really say something about the relative small Sombrero Galaxy yet: I can see it, but it's still very low at the horizon. I totally agree on M81/M82 and visit them almost every time I observe. 

Funny fact about The Hidden Galaxy: I still didn't found it. It lives up to its name

I have to concur, at least in city skies. The Leo Triplet was one of my favorites, even though the Hamburger eluded me much of the time, and M82 and M104 in particular show plenty of structure even in my Bortle 7 skies. On the other hand, the amount of structure visible in M31 and M33 in properly dark skies (Bortle 3 and lower) is unparalleled.


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#11 Don W

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 05:21 PM

On my first visit to Australia, I bought along a TV 102i refractor with Gibraltar mount. Argo-Navis DSCs were installed. I set the Argo to show me globular clusters brighter than 9th magnitude. 
 

They kept me busy for hours!

 

The answer to your question is there are many more things to observe in the southern hemisphere.


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#12 abby_normal

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 06:10 PM

there's something fundamentally true about that line from crosby stills and nash, "when you see the 

southern cross for the first time".


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#13 Jay_Reynolds_Freeman

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 06:35 PM

there's something fundamentally true about that line from crosby stills and nash, "when you see the 

southern cross for the first time".

I observed for most of my life from no farther south than 36 degrees north latitude, then took an early-June observing trip to Hawai'i -- setting up a 10-inch reflector at the Summit Observatories Visitor Center, 3 Km up on the slopes of Mauna Kea. It was early twilight when I got there on the first night. I spent some time fussing with the 10-inch, freshly unpacked from airline travel. By the time I was done it was dark enough to see the stars. I turned around and -- there was the Southern Cross, straight up and down at upper culmination, and every bit as gorgeous as I had imagined. It was a wonderful sight, and a wonderful trip -- I got in six good nights of observing -- and yes, in my opinion the southern Milky Way has a lot more to offer than its northern portion.

 

At that time the Visitor Center was well set up for visiting amateur astronomers -- there was power available outside and a light switch for the parking lot lights. There were piers with pier heads properly aligned and tilted north/south for the latitude, with bolt circles drilled so that the bases of most commercial fork mounts could be attached without wedge or tripod. The bathrooms remained open and heated. The gift shop (which was not open at night) had a neat selection of astronomy-themed sweets: Mars and Milky Way candy bars, Starburst pellet candy, and so on. My trip was more than two decades ago, but I suspect the Visitor Center still does well by visiting observers.

 

 

Clear sky ...


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#14 Tony Flanders

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 07:17 PM

On the other hand, the northern hemisphere has M31 and M33, the two nearest spiral galaxies. We also have M81/M82, the brightest galaxy duo in the whole sky, as well as the two brightest planetary nebulae, M27 and M57. And the Pleiades...


M27 and the Pleiades are cosmopolitan; they rise reasonably high from every permanently populated place on our planet. (Note that there are a ton of people north of latitude 55N, but essentially none south of 55S.)

 

To my mind the M81/M82 pair and the Double Cluster are the true gems of the far-northern sky, the part that's permanently invisible for a substantial number of people in the southern hemisphere. There's really nothing at all like either pairing anywhere else in the sky.

 

And yes, of course, there's M31, which barely scrapes the horizon in southernmost Australia and Africa, and is permanently invisible in a good chunk of Chile and Argentina. M33 is considerably farther south, and so visible almost everywhere. But I'm sure much of its magnificence is lost due to its low altitude as seen from the southern hemisphere. I wouldn't know; I had much better things to look at the only time I was in the southern hemisphere at the appropriate time of year.

 

But truth be told, the Large Magellanic Cloud alone balances all of the above; its unbelievably dense with magnificent clusters and nebulae. And we have nothing to compare to the Milky Way in and around Carina. And Alpha and Beta Centauri, together with the Southern Cross, is by far the densest concentration of ultrabright stars in the sky, more breath-taking even than Orion and Canis Major.

 

And there are several far-southern globulars that are at least a match to M13 or M5, not even counting Omega Cen and my own personal favorite, 47 Tuc -- the Eye of God globular.

 

But best of all is seeing the center of the Milky Way directly overhead, and tapering off on either side, just as a spiral galaxy is supposed to do.


Edited by Tony Flanders, 01 April 2025 - 07:19 PM.

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#15 Tony Flanders

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 07:23 PM

I'm not very impressed by M31 and that counts even more for M33. 
...
Funny fact about The Hidden Galaxy: I still didn't found it. It lives up to its name


You need to visit a darker location. Galaxies don't yield up their splendors easily in light-polluted skies. M33 is fantastically beautiful and detailed under dark skies. Large apertures help a lot, but even an 8-inch scope is ample to see the half-dozen brightest star clouds and emission areas, to say nothing of the spiral arms.

Likewise, under dark skies NGC 3628 is every bit as prominent as M65 and M66, and arguably more interesting.


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#16 FoxIslandHiker

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Posted 01 April 2025 - 11:41 PM

there's something fundamentally true about that line from crosby stills and nash, "when you see the 

southern cross for the first time".

Unfortunately not for me.  I had not looked at a star chart ahead of time so when I saw the southern cross for the first time, my reaction was “that’s not a cross, that’s a kite”.

 

The stars may not be as bright, but at least the northern cross looks like a cross.  


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#17 ausastronomer

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Posted 02 April 2025 - 01:01 AM

But truth be told, the Large Magellanic Cloud alone balances all of the above; its unbelievably dense with magnificent clusters and nebulae. And we have nothing to compare to the Milky Way in and around Carina. And Alpha and Beta Centauri, together with the Southern Cross, is by far the densest concentration of ultrabright stars in the sky, more breath-taking even than Orion and Canis Major.

 

From dark skies with a decent aperture telescope (14" plus) and assuming a reasonable number of observing nights each year, you can spend the best part of a decade on the LMC alone, if you get serious about it :)

 

You could also spend a year or two on the SMC!

 

Cheers


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#18 skysurfer

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Posted 02 April 2025 - 01:35 AM

The LMC contains lots of objects, last week I photographed the Tarantula with my 110mm ED. Visually it is a marvel as well. The Airbnb hosts where I stayed were interested when they saw my scope, so I showed then the Tarantula, Carina and Orion nebulas, also with OIII filter.

I am in a relatively dark location (B2 / B3) 200km west of Sydney and tonight it will probably clear here.

Normally I am a far northerner (Netherlands) and the high latitude is not the worst, but the horrible light pollution in NL. It is one of the most light polluted countries in the world.

Last October I stayed in France, 75km west of Nantes and enjoyerd the B3/B4 sky with nice northern objects.


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#19 Tony Flanders

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Posted 02 April 2025 - 04:13 AM

Unfortunately not for me.  I had not looked at a star chart ahead of time so when I saw the southern cross for the first time, my reaction was “that’s not a cross, that’s a kite”.


Agreed. Calling it a cross is extremely far-fetched; it's an excellent example of cultural imperialism. Not only is there no center star, but the fifth star fits perfectly into the natural kite or diamond interpretation, and makes zero sense as a cross.

Regardless, it's arguably the most striking star formation in the entire sky. And as a bonus, it includes some of the sky's finest doubles and one of the best star clusters.

 

To the ancient Greeks, it was the hooves of the Centaur.


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#20 BQ Octantis

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Posted 02 April 2025 - 04:59 AM

I spent 18 years growing up under Bortle 1 skies in central Texas, with a keen appreciation for the night sky. In my later years, I lived under Bortle 4 skies (with easy access to Bortle 1) in the Centralian Outback on the Tropic of Capricorn for 5 years. From my observations, there is no comparison whatsoever.

 

In the south, the core of the Milky Way—generally buried in 40 atmospheres of summer skywash for us northerners—marches across zenith all winter long, revealing all the gems of the Great Rift for 12 hours at a time. Spring brings the SMC and LMC—massive galaxies you can't miss if you just look toward the south—with the globular 47 Tuc and the massive Tarantula Nebula visible to the naked eye! Late summer reveals the Carina Arm, which is the brightest arm of the galaxy. It is so bright, its structure becomes visible well before nightfall. The Southern Cross and the line bisecting Alpha and Beta Centauri meet at BQ Octantis, the southern spindle of the great 24-hour clock that is the sky, which intuitively rotates in the clockwise direction. The Coal Sack and the Great Rift form the neck of the Great Emu—a sky feature comprised of stars, dark nebula, and star clouds. The Carina Nebula is easily visible to the naked eye, with its V shape quite obvious by nightfall. As the core of the Milky Way rotates off the horizon, the collective light of the Carina Arm and the Core are bright enough to navigate by.

 

I was back in Texas for Christmas this past winter—Bortle 3 now after 30 plus years of development after I left. I can say unequivocally that the Perseus Arm of the Milky Way is the most banal part of the entire galaxy. And the Outback sky ruined it for me.

 

Cheers,

 

BQ Octantis


Edited by BQ Octantis, 02 April 2025 - 05:35 AM.

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#21 ausastronomer

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Posted 02 April 2025 - 05:18 AM

Agreed. Calling it a cross is extremely far-fetched; it's an excellent example of cultural imperialism. Not only is there no center star, but the fifth star fits perfectly into the natural kite or diamond interpretation, and makes zero sense as a cross.

Regardless, it's arguably the most striking star formation in the entire sky. And as a bonus, it includes some of the sky's finest doubles and one of the best star clusters.

 

To the ancient Greeks, it was the hooves of the Centaur.

 

There are in fact 3 "crosses" within close proximity to each other, with the true Southern cross actually being the smallest of the 3.

 

The "False Cross" looks just like the Southern Cross only a good bit larger.  The 4 stars are also bright. The asterism has an almost identical shape and axis orientation to the Southern Cross and is often mistaken for the Southern Cross, particularly when the true Southern cross is low in the sky, or below the horizon. It is made up of 4 bright stars, but spans 2 constellations, Carina and Vela. The 4 stars are Epsilon and Iota Carinae and Delta and Kappa Velorum.

 

The "Diamond Cross" is a bit dimmer and sits between the Southern Cross and the False Cross and also a little South of the other two.  It is also a lot more stretched on the long axis than the other two. It sits entirely within the Constellation of Carina and is made up of the 4 stars, Miaplacidus (Beta Carinae), Theta, Upsilon and Omega Carinae.

For people in the Southern Hemisphere now and over the next couple of months is a good time to see the 3 "crosses" in the sky together, reasonably early in the evening.

 

I also think they are "kites" or "diamonds" not crosses!

 

Cheers


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#22 ayadai

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Posted 02 April 2025 - 05:34 AM

The question: does the southern hemisphere contain the better objects?

Both the northern and southern skies have compelling objects. That's why 15 degrees north is a great latitude. grin.gif


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#23 Illinois

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Posted 02 April 2025 - 06:25 AM

Farthest south I ever went on cruise is 5 deg north. I was at top and end of the cruise is darkest spot.  I used my 10 X 50 binocular and I see several deep sky objects from Crux (Southern Cross) to Carina.  Omega Centauri is way high that is low in Florida.  Wow!!!! Carina Nebula is so beautiful!  I saw Crux twice so far in my life and hope to see it again someday.  I live north and there’s plenty of nice deep sky objects. Veal Nebula and NGC 7000 is nice in binoculars and low power telescope in dark sky.  Nice to see M81 and M82 in same view in dark sky and group of galaxies in large dobsonian in dark sky.  Most important anywhere is dark sky and less light  pollution as possible.  Maybe someday I go to Costa Rica for deep sea fishing during no Moon and bring small telescope and binocular to see southern objects! 


Edited by Illinois, 02 April 2025 - 06:26 AM.

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#24 Whiteduckwagglinginspace

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Posted 02 April 2025 - 08:44 AM

The LMC contains lots of objects, last week I photographed the Tarantula with my 110mm ED. Visually it is a marvel as well. The Airbnb hosts where I stayed were interested when they saw my scope, so I showed then the Tarantula, Carina and Orion nebulas, also with OIII filter.

I am in a relatively dark location (B2 / B3) 200km west of Sydney and tonight it will probably clear here.

Normally I am a far northerner (Netherlands) and the high latitude is not the worst, but the horrible light pollution in NL. It is one of the most light polluted countries in the world.

Last October I stayed in France, 75km west of Nantes and enjoyerd the B3/B4 sky with nice northern objects.

I guess you're from Holland also. Can't you open a big CN B&B over there in Australia? (No beds needed; we're outside anyway.)
Why is there no government fund to support this...it is a shame that northern amateur astronomers have to miss all those wonderful objects of the southern hemisphere.
It's not a luxury, but an essence.



#25 abby_normal

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Posted 02 April 2025 - 09:34 AM

Agreed. Calling it a cross is extremely far-fetched; it's an excellent example of cultural imperialism. Not only is there no center star, but the fifth star fits perfectly into the natural kite or diamond interpretation, and makes zero sense as a cross.

Regardless, it's arguably the most striking star formation in the entire sky. And as a bonus, it includes some of the sky's finest doubles and one of the best star clusters.

 

To the ancient Greeks, it was the hooves of the Centaur.

Uh ... guess I should have prefaced with "IMHO" ?




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