105 replies to this topic

[ayadai]

Agreed. Calling it a cross is extremely far-fetched; it's an excellent example of cultural imperialism.

Yeah, but if we didn't call it that, we'd not have a groovy CSN song about it...

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

Yes, the Southern sky is richer than its Northern counterpart.

[triplemon]

Agreed. Calling it a cross is extremely far-fetched; it's an excellent example of cultural imperialism. Not only is there no center star, but the fifth star fits perfectly into the natural kite or diamond interpretation, and makes zero sense as a cross.

Calling Ursa Major that way, too.

Even figuring in ongoing evolution, I'm fairly certain bears tails were not THAT much longer even a few thousand years ago. It may be an indication of nightly heavy drinking in those ancient cultures, though.

Edited by triplemon, 02 April 2025 - 06:48 PM.

[edwincjones]

North vs South?   I would say they are about equal

 

From my home in Arkansas I can see about 2/3 of the sky

In 2003 I spent a month in NewZealand and the southern 1/3 seems more concentrated

The southern MilkyWay is better

I was not expecting much from the Southern Cross but was surprised and impressed

The LMC and SMC were a disappointment

The high point for me was the naked eye MW and the disorienting upside down sky

 

After this trip I am a more whole amateur astronomer

If at all possible I strongly suggest seeing both Hemispheres

 

IM?HO edj

Edited by edwincjones, 02 April 2025 - 03:48 PM.

[ausastronomer]

The LMC and SMC were a disappointment

 

edj

That's the first time in 50+ years of observing that I've heard someone say that!

 

How big was your telescope ?

 

Cheers

[edwincjones]

That's the first time in 50+ years of observing that I've heard someone say that!

 

How big was your telescope ?

 

Cheers

7x50 binoculars, naked eye

access to 13.1 dob and 6" refractor

I had high expectations but...

 

edj

[ayadai]

Calling Ursa Major that way, too.

You have to admit, however, that it really does look like a dipper; a big one at that! I wonder, however, how many folks alive today in the developed world have even seen a real dipper...

[triplemon]

Sure, I can live with many newer, contemporary names: the teapot, ET cluster, coathanger ...

Like most history books, they all tell you two things:The subject written about as well as the autor or time it was written.

[skysurfer]

I guess you're from Holland also. Can't you open a big CN B&B over there in Australia? (No beds needed; we're outside anyway.)
Why is there no government fund to support this...it is a shame that northern amateur astronomers have to miss all those wonderful objects of the southern hemisphere.
It's not a luxury, but an essence.

There is already one, but not in Australia. It is in Namibia (Kiropotib and Sossusvlei) and is dedicated to amateur astronomers. There are large scopes (12" and larger) there, it should be an amazing location, but for me too remote. Hence Australia or South Africa are more convenient for me.
https://www.astro-namibia.com/

[Whiteduckwagglinginspace]

There is already one, but not in Australia. It is in Namibia (Kiropotib and Sossusvlei) and is dedicated to amateur astronomers. There are large scopes (12" and larger) there, it should be an amazing location, but for me too remote. Hence Australia or South Africa are more convenient for me.
https://www.astro-namibia.com/

That's great! It is on my bucketlist now. 

[Whiteduckwagglinginspace]

Wondering if there are also amazing galaxies (seen from the southern hemisphere) we are missing?

[ausastronomer]

Wondering if there are also amazing galaxies (seen from the southern hemisphere) we are missing?

 

There are several galaxies which can be seen from lower Northern Latitudes, but they are much better viewed from the Southern Hemisphere where they attain maximum elevation.  There are also some nice more Southern Galaxies.

 

M83 takes on an entirely different complexion when viewed at the zenith.  Everyone who attends Ozsky can't believe the difference in the view compared to what they get back home in the Northern hemisphere.

 

NGC 253 in Sculptor

NGC 55 in Sculptor

NGC 1365 in Fornax

NGC 4945 in Centaurus

NGC 5128 in Centaurus (Centaurus A)

NGC 2997 in Antlia

NGC 1566 in Dorado

Grus Quartet

 

There are also quite a few other nice ones.

 

Centaurus and Fornax Galaxy Clusters are also nice

 

Cheers

Edited by ausastronomer, 03 April 2025 - 06:09 AM.

[Whiteduckwagglinginspace]

There are several galaxies which can be seen from lower Northern Latitudes, but they are much better viewed from the Southern Hemisphere where they attain maximum elevation.  There are also some nice more Southern Galaxies.

 

M83 takes on an entirely different complexion when viewed at the zenith.  Everyone who attends Ozsky can't believe the difference in the view compared to what they get back home in the Northern hemisphere.

 

NGC 253 in Sculptor

NGC 55 in Sculptor

NGC 1365 in Fornax

NGC 4945 in Centaurus

NGC 5128 in Centaurus (Centaurus A)

NGC 2997 in Antlia

NGC 1566 in Dorado

Grus Quartet

 

There are also quite a few other nice ones.

 

Centaurus and Fornax Galaxy Clusters are also nice

 

Cheers

Thank you for telling! Are these comparable with for example Whirlpool, M81/M82, Andromeda or are they even better?

Edited by Whiteduckwagglinginspace, 03 April 2025 - 08:47 AM.

[BQ Octantis]

Wondering if there are also amazing galaxies (seen from the southern hemisphere) we are missing?

 

These are all naked eye visible:

 

1. The Milky Way in its full splendor.

 

Outback Sky Mosaic (click for full size)

 

2. The LMC.

 

Large Magellanic Cloud Mosaic in Plankian Color (click for full size)

 

3. The SMC.

 

SMC & 47 Tuc (click for full size)

 

There are no galaxies like this in the northern hemisphere.

 

 

BQ

Edited by BQ Octantis, 03 April 2025 - 09:01 AM.

[Whiteduckwagglinginspace]

These are all naked eye visible:

 

1. The Milky Way in its full splendor.

 

Outback Sky Mosaic (click for full size)

 

2. The LMC.

 

Large Magellanic Cloud Mosaic in Plankian Color (click for full size)

 

3. The SMC.

 

SMC & 47 Tuc (click for full size)

 

There are no galaxies like this in the northern hemisphere.

 

 

BQ

So most people, including myself are living on the wrong side of the world...

This is jealous making.  And please stop beating your horse!

[BQ Octantis]

So most people, including myself are living on the wrong side of the world...

This is jealous making.  And please stop beating your horse!

Sorry…I just had to drive home the point that the southern hemisphere isn't lacking in galaxies, as most northerners claim (presumably to make themselves feel better about their being landlocked). Sure, Andromeda, Triangulum and the northern Pinwheel are ok…but so are Centaurus A and Sculptor!

 

Centaurus A @ 750mm (click for full size)

 

Sculptor Galaxy (click for full size)

 

And from the Tropic of Capricorn, the Southern Pinwheel (M83) and Sombrero galaxies are literally zenith grazers!

 

M83: The Thousand Ruby Galaxy (click for full size)

 

M104 / Sombrero Galaxy (click for full size)

 

BQ

 

[Tony Flanders]

Wondering if there are also amazing galaxies (seen from the southern hemisphere) we are missing?

There are many fine galaxies in the far-southern sky. I would say that of the lot, Centaurus A (NGC 5128) is the most remarkable. It's even farther from the norm than M82, which is saying a lot. M82's main dust lane is mighty bold, but Centaurus A's main dust lane is in-your-face obvious even through an 80-mm refractor.

 

Actually, the Large Magellanic Cloud would be a world-class galaxy even if it were ten times farther away than it actually is. It's another extreme outlier from the norm.

[skysurfer]

And this... shot these two past week.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave Mitsky]

I spent hours observing the LMC and the SMC during my trips to Bolivia.

 

In addition to NGC 5139 (Omega Centauri) and NGC 104 (47 Tucanae), NGC 6397 and NGC 6752 are very impressive globular clusters and M22 is fantastic (and the many other DSOs in Sagittarius for that matter), when it is positioned high in the sky.

https://www.irida-ob...397/NGC6397.htm

https://apod.nasa.go...d/ap241025.html

NGC 3532 (the Wishing Well Cluster) is one of the finest open clusters in the heavens.

 

NGC 3372 (the Eta Carinae Nebula) is larger and brighter than M42 and the Homunculus Nebula surrounding Eta Carina is unlike any other DSO that I've ever observed. 

The Coal Sack is a great dark nebula.
 

[ausastronomer]

Thank you for telling! Are these comparable with for example Whirlpool, M81/M82, Andromeda or are they even better?

 

There are many fine galaxies in the far-southern sky. I would say that of the lot, Centaurus A (NGC 5128) is the most remarkable. It's even farther from the norm than M82, which is saying a lot. M82's main dust lane is mighty bold, but Centaurus A's main dust lane is in-your-face obvious even through an 80-mm refractor.

 

Actually, the Large Magellanic Cloud would be a world-class galaxy even if it were ten times farther away than it actually is. It's another extreme outlier from the norm.

They are different, but exceptional targets in their own right.

 

As Tony mentioned, NGC 5128 (Centaurus  A) is a unique and remarkable target. It is the result of a galaxy shredding event ~ 500 million years ago. It is only 1 target of 3 involved. The event was a violent merger between a large elliptical galaxy and a smaller spiral galaxy.  What we ended up with as a result of that collision was NGC 5128 (Centaurus A), which is a large bright lenticular galaxy (Mag 6.8), NGC 5237 which is a dwarf elliptical galaxy (mag 10.2) and the Fourcade-Figueroa Object (ESO 270-17) which is Galaxy Shred or an edge on irregular galaxy (mag 11.8)  The Fourcade-Figueroa Object is a low surface brightness target and is a test for telescopes under 14" aperture.  All 3 resulting components are now about 2 degrees away from each other. A 4 inch telescope clearly shows where the centre was torn out of Centaurus A and the remnants that remain in the centre section.  Centaurus A is known as "The Hamburger Galaxy" and us Southerners call the remnants, the lettuce, tomato and meat patty.

 

NGC 253 is probably the finest edge on spiral galaxy in the night sky!

 

The LMC and the SMC are in a class all by themselves!

 

Cheers

Edited by ausastronomer, 04 April 2025 - 01:19 AM.

[BQ Octantis]

I spent hours observing the LMC and the SMC during my trips to Bolivia.

 

In addition to NGC 5139 (Omega Centauri) and NGC 104 (47 Tucanae), NGC 6397 and NGC 6752 are very impressive globular clusters and M22 is fantastic (and the many other DSOs in Sagittarius for that matter), when it is positioned high in the sky.

https://www.irida-ob...397/NGC6397.htm

https://apod.nasa.go...d/ap241025.html

NGC 3532 (the Wishing Well Cluster) is one of the finest open clusters in the heavens.

 

NGC 3372 (the Eta Carinae Nebula) is larger and brighter than M42 and the Homunculus Nebula surrounding Eta Carina is unlike any other DSO that I've ever observed. 

The Coal Sack is a great dark nebula.
 

I can proudly say I've imaged and posted about the Wishing Well Cluster!

 

https://www.cloudyni...in-in-the-well/

 

And yes, the Homunculus Nebula is unique in all the observable Universe…I just redid a capture of that, too…

 

https://www.cloudyni...nd-the-keyhole/

 

I didn't capture C86 (I shot C87 for its blood red stars instead), but who could miss the globular in Pavo?…not to be confused with the Pavo galaxy cluster!

 

BQ

Edited by BQ Octantis, 04 April 2025 - 08:31 AM.

[BQ Octantis]

As Tony mentioned, NGC 5128 (Centaurus  A) is a unique and remarkable target. It is the result of a galaxy shredding event ~ 500 million years ago. It is only 1 target of 3 involved. The event was a violent merger between a large elliptical galaxy and a smaller spiral galaxy.  What we ended up with as a result of that collision was NGC 5128 (Centaurus A), which is a large bright lenticular galaxy (Mag 6.8), NGC 5237 which is a dwarf elliptical galaxy (mag 10.2) and the Fourcade-Figueroa Object (ESO 270-17) which is Galaxy Shred or an edge on irregular galaxy (mag 11.8)

Oooohhh…so that's why Centaurus A looks like an elliptical with a dust lane!

 

BQ

[Whiteduckwagglinginspace]

So much great information and so many pretty objects and some very nice pictures - thank you (all) very much! Really wonderfull and interesting stuff on this thread.

[CollinofAlabama]

Dutchman-in-Norway, I have lived all my life in the USA, and moving somewhere else isn't very practical, although there are plenty of reasons to do so, especially today.  But, regarding astronomy, Europe is poorly placed, and northern Europe, more poorly still.  It is, however, a great irony that Charles Messier, Pierre Méchain, Johann Gottfried Galle and William Hershel, perhaps the greatest names in astronomy of late 18th and early to mid-19th centuries, were all northern europeans and made their fantastic discoveries from there.  Messengers concerning the greatness of the southern skies, like Edmond Halley in the 1670's, and John Hershel in the 1830's, William's son were giving us the hint.

 

I am very lucky to live and have spent most of my life at 33-½º north latitude, which is far enough north to get spectacular views of the northern gems, the Double Cluster, M81/82, M101, M13, M32/33/110, etc, but just far enough south to get teaser views of a few of the southern hallmarks.  Canopus is easily visible low near the southern horizon every winter here, in a great, upside-down, lop-sided triangle just before Sirius is at culmination and just after Betelgeuse.  As the second brightest star in the sky, it is conspicuous, and being that I live on one of the highest, largest, flattest plains on earth, the Llano Estacado, easily visible in my neighborhood down any of the avenues which run north-to-south on walks with my wife in the evening.  But for us astronomers, the view of Omega Centauri through a 12" scope, or even a 4" scope, around this time of year, April to May, well, you know you're looking at the best globular cluster in the sky.  Okay, the best one you'll see at 33-½º north, since Tony Flanders' personal favorite, 47 Tucanae (NGC 104) can only be seen south of 18º north.  And of course, there's the rub.  Where could one see everything well?  Hawaii is clearly not south enough, but when will you start to miss out on northern hemisphere stuff if one goes south of 18º north?  Tourism can resolve the problem on a temporary basis, but to actually live someplace, there will always be compromises.  C'est la vie.

Edited by CollinofAlabama, 04 April 2025 - 01:01 PM.

[Javier1978]

 

Centaurus and Fornax Galaxy Clusters are also nice

 

Cheers

 

Fornax galaxy cluster is very impressive, even with a humble 8" scope.