169 replies to this topic

[bradhaak]

Take my money! I will preorder on the first day it's available, but I'm slightly concerned.

 

One of the main reasons I sold my Dwarf 3 was how long it took to do a decent capture. But let's face it, a lot of it had to do with the cumbersome, buggy, badly designed DwarfLab app. Still, if the S30 Pro takes all night to get a single image, I may not own one very long.

[StargazerLuigi]

I'm going to guess closer to $1000. New quadruplet optics, larger sensor, new -res sensor for the second camera, 4X the memory, NFC. All of that is gonna cost at least twice the base S30.

But I could be wrong...

[StargazerLuigi]

After further reflection, I think your estimate is probably more realistic.

[JonNPR]

Tariffs

[dtripz]

Tariffs

Astro community will be hit hard unfortunately.

[WillR]

I'm going to guess closer to $1000. New quadruplet optics, larger sensor, new -res sensor for the second camera, 4X the memory, NFC. All of that is gonna cost at least twice the base S30.

 

But I could be wrong...

I think you are closer to it.

[LDW47]

I won't go any higher than half the price of the Origin !  I think I am safe, I'll have me one, eh.  PS:  There is an old saying ' ya gotta have faith ' I do with ZWO, every time !

Edited by LDW47, 05 April 2025 - 10:34 PM.

[WillR]

Here is Simon's presentation for ZWO today at NEAF, highlighting the S30 Pro.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=TfefO0GsiFI

 

They are going to put an IMX586 in the wide field with upgraded optics to make a true Milky Way mode.

 

Preorders in June. Delivery end of year? Price TBD. Markets too voluble now for them to get pinned down.

Edited by WillR, 05 April 2025 - 10:43 PM.

[BrentKnight]

For $1000, it would be a tough call for me.

 

I'm happy to see the movement of this ST toward better quality components, and I'm certainly aware of the additional costs for better components.  I'm just perfectly happy with the 40mm OTA that I currently use for wide-field.  Understand that all the components together to make my OTA work cost well over $1000, but I already have these components.  I would be mostly interested in one of these for the ultra-wide field views (the Milky Way option) and also as a very portable travel scope.  I think $1000 would be reasonable though - especially if this were someone's first scope.  I wonder if there will be any improvements to the drive mechanism along with the optics.

 

I'm not counting this scope out though - I'll be looking forward to more info...  ZWO certainly do know how to surprise folks.

[bradhaak]

I figure that it has to be less than the Vespera II from Vaonis, which is 50mm quadruplet with an 8 MP sensor, but no wide angle. The Vespera II was $1500 but just raised to $1690 (USD). Filters are extra.

Edited by bradhaak, 05 April 2025 - 10:57 PM.

[Digital Don]

As to price, I think Simon may have given us a hint.  Start listening to what is said around 25:50 in this video. 

 

An S30 Pro definitely sounds intriguing, but I'd really prefer an S50 (or larger) Pro with comparable features.

 

Don

[Magnum45hp]

 

(By the way, the brochure I am attaching shows the sensor on the S30 as a IMX662. Is this a misprint? I thought it had the same sensor as the S50?)

Hi Will,  The S30 User Manual  states it is a 662.  One of the reasons I chose the 30 as it had a newer sensor.

Have had my 30 about two weeks now and excited about it.  Finding more about it as time goes on.  But now have clouds, tornadoes, floods. May clear next week sometime...

I am glad I have it, can't wait for something forever, always better coming along.........

This might slow their S30 sales.....

[WillR]

As to price, I think Simon may have given us a hint.  Start listening to what is said around 25:50 in this video. 

 

An S30 Pro definitely sounds intriguing, but I'd really prefer an S50 (or larger) Pro with comparable features.

 

Don

Watched that. He did seem to agree with Hunter's guess of $500, but I doubt they can bring it in for that.

[WillR]

Hi Will,  The S30 User Manual  states it is a 662.  One of the reasons I chose the 30 as it had a newer sensor.

Have had my 30 about two weeks now and excited about it.  Finding more about it as time goes on.  But now have clouds, tornadoes, floods. May clear next week sometime...

I am glad I have it, can't wait for something forever, always better coming along.........

This might slow their S30 sales.....

Ok, my bad memory maybe. I agree the timing of the release of the S30 and S30 Pro is strange. People who didn't preorder are now just being able to get the S30. I thought of one, but am now glad I held off.

[CraigR]

If I understand what I heard at the NEAF presentation the S30 Pro will have 4x the pixels, but only a slightly larger FOV, not 4x the current FOV. The wide field camera will be getting a major upgrade giving it better performance as a wide field camera.

 

It has 4x the pixels and roughly 4x the FOV (2x in each dimension) no change in the pixel resolution. You just get more of the same mushy lack of detail (3.99 arcseconds per pixel) as in the current S30. :-)

 

The telescope is now an Apochromatic quadruplet with 4 lenses. They also quadrupled the storage to 256 GB! How they fit all this in is beyond me.

 

(By the way, the brochure I am attaching shows the sensor on the S30 as a IMX662. Is this a misprint? I thought it had the same sensor as the S50?)

 

I suspect the 4th lens flattens the image circle out to the edges and fixes up any chromatic aberrations so that they can use the larger sensor. Focal length remains the same, so same pixel resolution, just more pixels.

The S30 has an IMX662. It's not the same as the S50, which has the older IMX462.

 

This is just me, but ZWO took everything I didn't like about the S30 and gave me more of it. I'm 4x less interested than I was before. Now, if you want to put an IMX678 in the S50 and increase the FOV proportional to the sensor size, but now with 2 micron pixels, I'm interested. I've already got a 70mm scope so I'll let you guys fight over a potential S70. :-)

[LDW47]

They have started their engines, ready for blast off, whose wallets are ready, the S30 as we know it is being left behind along with all competitors. The drive train hasn't failed yet, its better than most think, it cuts the mustard. The intelligent astronomers can hardly wait and out of all this comes the new dawning. And we are left staring at the full MILLKY WAY.

[WillR]

It has 4x the pixels and roughly 4x the FOV (2x in each dimension) no change in the pixel resolution. You just get more of the same mushy lack of detail (3.99 arcseconds per pixel) as in the current S30. :-)

 

 

I suspect the 4th lens flattens the image circle out to the edges and fixes up any chromatic aberrations so that they can use the larger sensor. Focal length remains the same, so same pixel resolution, just more pixels.

The S30 has an IMX662. It's not the same as the S50, which has the older IMX462.

 

This is just me, but ZWO took everything I didn't like about the S30 and gave me more of it. I'm 4x less interested than I was before. Now, if you want to put an IMX678 in the S50 and increase the FOV proportional to the sensor size, but now with 2 micron pixels, I'm interested. I've already got a 70mm scope so I'll let you guys fight over a potential S70. :-)

Ok, but what about the wide field camera. That seems like a significant upgrade. I also see this scope, like the S30, to have great potential for terrestrial imaging.

[BrentKnight]

Ok, but what about the wide field camera. That seems like a significant upgrade. I also see this scope, like the S30, to have great potential for terrestrial imaging.

As far as I can tell it's very much like a smartphone camera.  A small lens with a better sensor.  The benefit is the mount its attached to.  All the ease of setup and tracking and plate solving to allow longer sessions than most smartphones.  It seems to me EQ mode would be a requirement - so as not to lose any of the FoV to field rotation...

 

I'm interested, but not sure how interested...

[vichman]

I just got home from NEAF. They had a prototype of the new S30 Pro in the booth. It has the exact same shell as the regular S30. I had a nice chat with Simon, who said expect it out mid-summer. Since they have a limited amount of retooling to do with the same outer shell, this seems entirely possible. They had it on a tripod with a compact head that doubled as a wedge. I wish I had taken a photo of that. The head/wedge had ZWO on it so their product. No word on when that will be available.

 

Simon also said here was a new lens and sensor for the wide angle lens as well, if I understood him correctly. This really seems like the cat's pajamas with its 4.5° FOV and new sensor. They are advertising it as "Milky Way" scope, which makes me think the small wide field lens and camera are pretty good and designed for very wide field imaging (an 84° FOV!). The chip is a Sony IMX585- 8 mega pixels and a 12.8mm diagonal dimension as compared to the IMX462 in the Seestar S50 with a 6.5mm diagonal and 2.1 megapixels. The IMX585 has a square footprint.

 

The telescope is now an Apochromatic quadruplet with 4 lenses. They also quadrupled the storage to 256 GB! How they fit all this in is beyond me.

 

I do feel bad for people who just purchased the regular S30, although I imagine this will be a good bit more expensive. With their ASIAIR technology there's no limit to what ZWO may come out with. Their booth was doing a brisk business while I saw very few people visiting the competitors.

 

(By the way, the brochure I am attaching shows the sensor on the S30 as a IMX662. Is this a misprint? I thought it had the same sensor as the S50?)

I do not really get that "IMX585 (4k)" statement for the S30 Pro in the image.
As far as I know the IMX585 has something like 3840x2160 pixel, i.e. 8k...

CS

Stefan

[vichman]

It has 4x the pixels and roughly 4x the FOV (2x in each dimension) no change in the pixel resolution. You just get more of the same mushy lack of detail (3.99 arcseconds per pixel) as in the current S30. :-)

 

 

I suspect the 4th lens flattens the image circle out to the edges and fixes up any chromatic aberrations so that they can use the larger sensor. Focal length remains the same, so same pixel resolution, just more pixels.

The S30 has an IMX662. It's not the same as the S50, which has the older IMX462.

 

This is just me, but ZWO took everything I didn't like about the S30 and gave me more of it. I'm 4x less interested than I was before. Now, if you want to put an IMX678 in the S50 and increase the FOV proportional to the sensor size, but now with 2 micron pixels, I'm interested. I've already got a 70mm scope so I'll let you guys fight over a potential S70. :-)

I fully agree, they should have taken the IMX 715 instead with its 1.45u pixels. This would have been a meaningful upgrade.
But not a camera chip with the same resolution but 4x the size. This makes no sense...

CS

Stefan

[LDW47]

I fully agree, they should have taken the IMX 715 instead with its 1.45u pixels. This would have been a meaningful upgrade.
But not a camera chip with the same resolution but 4x the size. This makes no sense...

CS

Stefan

Maybe leave it up to the experts at ZWO to figure out, maybe. They have done that already, right.

[CraigR]

I do not really get that "IMX585 (4k)" statement for the S30 Pro in the image.
As far as I know the IMX585 has something like 3840x2160 pixel, i.e. 8k...

CS

Stefan

"4K" is marketing-speak for the horizontal resolution, which is closer to 4096 than to any other multiple of 2.

The camera has 8 MEGApixels, so MP.

Yeah, it's confusing and unrelated. But that's what you get when you let the MBAs into the room.

[LDW47]

It has 4x the pixels and roughly 4x the FOV (2x in each dimension) no change in the pixel resolution. You just get more of the same mushy lack of detail (3.99 arcseconds per pixel) as in the current S30. :-)

 

 

I suspect the 4th lens flattens the image circle out to the edges and fixes up any chromatic aberrations so that they can use the larger sensor. Focal length remains the same, so same pixel resolution, just more pixels.

The S30 has an IMX662. It's not the same as the S50, which has the older IMX462.

 

This is just me, but ZWO took everything I didn't like about the S30 and gave me more of it. I'm 4x less interested than I was before. Now, if you want to put an IMX678 in the S50 and increase the FOV proportional to the sensor size, but now with 2 micron pixels, I'm interested. I've already got a 70mm scope so I'll let you guys fight over a potential S70. :-)

Anyone thats not interested just push over as there are many that are and they have just begun, eh.

[CraigR]

Ok, but what about the wide field camera. That seems like a significant upgrade. I also see this scope, like the S30, to have great potential for terrestrial imaging.

So instead of 2 megapixels of 4 arcseconds/pixel mush there's 8 megapixels of 4 arcseconds/pixel mush. Yay. :-)

And while I don't mind if you point astrographic equipment at a bird or your neighbor's bedroom window, I don't see any of that as being a feature that sells the device to its target audience, which such a feature only muddles. I don't know who their target is. It's like if I make a nice DSLR that also plays MP3s and gives driving directions.

I choose to approach the device as being marketed to neophyte astro photographers, since ZWO is all about astro. Birds not so much.

And as far as Milky Way photos, (a) most of us can't see it, and (b) that's one target — one I can capture with my iPhone and the AstroShader app if I want.

[CraigR]

Anyone thats not interested just push over as there are many that are and they have just begun, eh.

So you get to choose who gets to post here based on whether they agree with you or not? Make a cogent, detailed, technical argument for the greatness of the S30 Pro if you want, but don't just tell everyone but you to shut up.