169 replies to this topic

[hughesthompson]

I just can't get past the 30mm of aperture.  There is a limit on what you can do with that in terms of resolution.  I think all of these upgrades would have made more sense on the S50.

[LDW47]

So you get to choose who gets to post here based on whether they agree with you or not? Make a cogent, detailed, technical argument for the greatness of the S30 Pro if you want, but don't just tell everyone but you to shut up.

I say what I think, every time, whether you like it or not. I stand by my intent. Unless you know more than ZWO, lol.

Edited by LDW47, 06 April 2025 - 08:57 AM.

[kgb]

I just can't get past the 30mm of aperture. There is a limit on what you can do with that in terms of resolution. I think all of these upgrades would have made more sense on the S50.

Agreed, the 30mm objective would be limited by physics almost as much as it would by pixel resolution.

[LDW47]

I just can't get past the 30mm of aperture.  There is a limit on what you can do with that in terms of resolution.  I think all of these upgrades would have made more sense on the S50.

Have you used the S30 with its capabilities, really.

Edited by LDW47, 06 April 2025 - 09:00 AM.

[kgb]

Have used the S30 with its capabilities, really.

You don’t need to have used it to understand its physical limitations.

[hughesthompson]

You don’t need to have used it to understand its physical limitations.

I've been looking at both the S30 and S50 for a while but I already have a small portable scope (Askar FMA180, 40mm) and a 585MC uncooled camera.  It's a great combination on a small tracker.  I've been waiting for ZWO to upgrade the Seestar to that sensor.

 

I checked AstroBin for images with Askar's even smaller scope, the FMA135, 30mm.  There are a couple of images using the ASI585 which would make it comparable to the S30 Pro.  Pretty impressive resolution and nice field of view.

Edited by hughesthompson, 06 April 2025 - 09:13 AM.

[LDW47]

You don’t need to have used it to understand its physical limitations.

Ya sure, eh. Sez you, lol. Nothing beats hands on, ever. Maybe you will learn that someday, eh.

Edited by LDW47, 06 April 2025 - 09:27 AM.

[WillR]

I fully agree, they should have taken the IMX 715 instead with its 1.45u pixels. This would have been a meaningful upgrade.
But not a camera chip with the same resolution but 4x the size. This makes no sense...

CS

Stefan

I think they are aiming for a certain market and price point, and it is not the experienced astrophotographer who can afford a large DIY rig. This scope will be used for EAA and casual grabs of widefield views. Plus they are limited by this particular aperture. The IMX585 seems to be a good fit for this.

 

Key Features and Specifications:

Technology: STARVIS 2, a back-illuminated pixel technology for CMOS image sensors.
Resolution: 8.3MP (3856 x 2180 pixels).
Pixel Size: 2.9 x 2.9 µm.
Format: 1/1.2-type.
Dynamic Range: High dynamic range (HDR) achieved through Sony's STARVIS 2 technology, with an HDR of 88 dB in a single exposure.
Low-Light Performance: Excellent low-light performance due to the STARVIS 2 technology.
Sensitivity: High sensitivity, especially in the near-infrared range.
Applications: Security cameras, astronomy, and other applications requiring high sensitivity and low-light performance.
Interface: MIPI CSI-2 (2/4 lane).
Readout rate: Maximum frame rate in All-pixel scan mode: 12 bit: 60 frame/s, 10 bit: 90 frame/s.
Quantum Efficiency: High quantum efficiency, especially in the visible wavelength band.
Full Well Capacity: Large full well capacity, improving the camera's ability to collect light and reduce noise.
No Amp Glow: The sensor is designed to minimize amp glow, a common issue in some image sensors.
HDR Function: Features Digital Overlap HDR and Clear HDR.

 

I highlighted the specs that would make it suitable for a smart scope and gathering a lot of data in a short time. Like for EAA.

 

I am no expert by any measure, just a neophyte. (And this is a list generated by ai so take it for what you will) But it does reflect what Simon said in his presentation about why they chose this chip.

[DevilJack]

I’ll be pre-ordering the S30 Pro the first chance I get. Maybe even two….

 

For my interest in wide field AP and night sky Milky Way, the S30 Pro looks perfect for my needs. It couples solid optics and sensors with all the tech of the Asiair and Seestar. It couldn’t be easier to use. Alt-Az or EQ mode. And why the pair you ask? I’m already thinking about S30 Pros for meteor showers! I’ll be replacing both my 180mm FMA180 Pro and Samyang 135mm rigs with Seestar S30 Pros. 

 

And I like ZWOs marketing plan. Keep the S30 for the entry level non-Astro crowd and introduce the Pro line (S30 Pro) for the EAA/AP audience like us. Makes sense.

 

Finally, a S50 Pro with the “Pro Kit”, being the quadruplet, Asi585mc, and 256gb, would be a very solid offering for AP. I need to upgrade my S50 too!

 

[LDW47]

When the S30 appeared, into our hands, a few months ago , the doomsayers, the soothsayers, the epocoliptics, the so called experts condemned it for its size, its none capabilities. Well as most of us great, average users have noted it proved those, maybe elitists if you will, wrong in every way. No reason to believe the SeeStar 30 Pro won't again and it really burns their ......., maybe, again. My sincere apologies !  PS:  One should never put the wagon before the horse in case it comes back to haunt or something like that, eh.

[LDW47]

I’ll be pre-ordering the S30 Pro the first chance I get. Maybe even two….

 

For my interest in wide field AP and night sky Milky Way, the S30 Pro looks perfect for my needs. It couples solid optics and sensors with all the tech of the Asiair and Seestar. It couldn’t be easier to use. Alt-Az or EQ mode. And why the pair you ask? I’m already thinking about S30 Pros for meteor showers! I’ll be replacing both my 180mm FMA180 Pro and Samyang 135mm rigs with Seestar S30 Pros. 

 

And I like ZWOs marketing plan. Keep the S30 for the entry level non-Astro crowd and introduce the Pro line (S30 Pro) for the EAA/AP audience like us. Makes sense.

 

Finally, a S50 Pro with the “Pro Kit”, being the quadruplet, Asi585mc, and 256gb, would be a very solid offering for AP. I need to upgrade my S50 too!

Well said, every word !

[LDW47]

So you get to choose who gets to post here based on whether they agree with you or not? Make a cogent, detailed, technical argument for the greatness of the S30 Pro if you want, but don't just tell everyone but you to shut up.

If I would have wanted or intended to tell you to shut up I would have said it, very plain.  So don't put words in my mouth, just to raise ....... .  PS:  I make it a point to never explain myself but I will make an exception, this time, after reading your intentional insult. My meaning was that if you didn't want to get in line to get one of these new Pro models, for whatever your reason, then just push over and make room for ones that want to get in line. Very simple and no sign of any derogatory words, as with yours.

Edited by LDW47, 06 April 2025 - 09:44 AM.

[kgb]

When the S30 appeared, into our hands, a few months ago , the doomsayers, the soothsayers, the epocoliptics, the so called experts condemned it for its size, its none capabilities. Well as most of us great, average users have noted it proved those, maybe elitists if you will, wrong in every way. No reason to believe the SeeStar 30 Pro won't again and it really burns their ......., maybe, again. My sincere apologies ! PS: One should never put the wagon before the horse in case it comes back to haunt or something like that, eh.

What are you talking about? We are discussing the physical limitations of this device and highlighting that it isn’t designed tor high resolution astrophotography. We discuss these things so people can understand what this is ideal for and what it is not. People will come to this thread so they can make an informed decision.

Edit: By resolution, I am referring to angular

Edited by kgb, 06 April 2025 - 09:59 AM.

[LDW47]

What are you talking about? We are discussing the physical limitations of this device and highlighting that it isn’t designed tor high resolution astrophotography. We discuss these things so people can understand what this is ideal for and what it is not. People will come to this thread so they can make an informed decision.

Edit: By resolution, I am referring to angular

Give me a break, eh. Informed decision, really. Why not let us all wait til it gets here, til we see the final product. How does anyone make any type of decision til then, based on your words of expertise, ya think. At this point its all just ......., lol.  You don't even know what its going to look like save for a first step presentation / brochure, eh. And why would you bring in astrophotography, isn't that a different animal than what these are, I think most  already know that, right.

Edited by LDW47, 06 April 2025 - 10:08 AM.

[BrentKnight]

I say... let everyone have there own opinions and let them express them here in this forum (a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged).

[wizzlebippi]

The problem for resolving fine detail is the 30mm objective.  It doesn't matter how good the optics are, it still can't resolve anything much below 4" because physics says so.  Being a color sensor, there's likely some benefit to a smaller pixel scale to regain some of the spatial resolution lost to the Bayer Filter, but I don't expect it to get below 3"/px without being a muddy mess.  

Edited by wizzlebippi, 06 April 2025 - 10:43 AM.

[LDW47]

I say... let everyone have there own opinions and let them express them here in this forum (a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged).

And I expressed my lets wait and see opinion, very clearly. That falls into place okay, I hope.

[BrentKnight]

I’ll be pre-ordering the S30 Pro the first chance I get. Maybe even two….

 

For my interest in wide field AP and night sky Milky Way, the S30 Pro looks perfect for my needs. It couples solid optics and sensors with all the tech of the Asiair and Seestar. It couldn’t be easier to use. Alt-Az or EQ mode. And why the pair you ask? I’m already thinking about S30 Pros for meteor showers! I’ll be replacing both my 180mm FMA180 Pro and Samyang 135mm rigs with Seestar S30 Pros. 

 

And I like ZWOs marketing plan. Keep the S30 for the entry level non-Astro crowd and introduce the Pro line (S30 Pro) for the EAA/AP audience like us. Makes sense.

 

Finally, a S50 Pro with the “Pro Kit”, being the quadruplet, Asi585mc, and 256gb, would be a very solid offering for AP. I need to upgrade my S50 too!

I haven't used the Samyang, but I've heard a lot about it.  I doubt I'll ever trade my FMA180 for an ST though (never say never though).  I actually like DiY rigs and I'd need a compelling use case for me to get one of these scopes (otherwise I fear they would just gather dust).  I was about to try using a smartphone for Milky Way captures (dark nebulae are some of my favorite targets) and captures of entire constellations.  If the S30 Pro can do that better and easier than the smartphone, I'd be interested.  I really don't have much interest in the main 30mm optics though - except possibly as something I could travel with.

[PEterW]

Any links to images comparing the pixel scale of the s50 or s30, interested to see what we’re losing.

[BrentKnight]

And I expressed my lets wait and see opinion, very clearly. That falls into place okay, I hope.

Personally - I see you often posting only to criticize others opinions.  We all know how much you like the Seestars - but I think there is plenty of room here to let critical or speculative comments come and go.  Critical comments won't usually cause someone to not be interested in a device - they are a way to improve something in the long run.

[LDW47]

The problem for resolving fine detail is the 30mm objective.  It doesn't matter how good the optics are, it still can't resolve anything much below 4" because physics says so.  Being a color sensor, there's likely some benefit to a smaller pixel scale to regain some of the spatial resolution lost to the Bayer Filter, but I don't expect it to get below 3"/px without being a muddy mess.  

I don't think the S30 / S30 Pro is / was made for real fine detail, fine detail of which hasn't been too well defined in understandable terms for many owners. These scopes fall into the usable category for which they were intended very well incl. the intended owner level, that just want to enjoy whats up there beyond our reach. I don't think any owners expect Hubble, JW, thats another level and to bring the resultant images up some there are all kinds of levels of editing that satisfy those needs. IMHO from such prelim. info, it looks like the 30 Pro is going to be a great addition to the line up and maybe the 50 just down the road. I am sure I know their reasoning, just think about it.

[LDW47]

Personally - I see you often posting only to criticize others opinions.  We all know how much you like the Seestars - but I think there is plenty of room here to let critical or speculative comments come and go.  Critical comments won't usually cause someone to not be interested in a device - they are a way to improve something in the long run.

All I said and its very clear was that maybe we should wait and see the final product before being critical, the design, the components, the features could change substantially before that, most times it does. Thats my opinion from experience and what I am seeing here already and I'm stickin' to it. I never, ever tell anyone not to voice their opinion, their thoughts any different than I do, ever. I'm just a fellow member, like it or not, eh!

[DevilJack]

I dismissed the FMA180 (40mm aperture) until I ordered the FMA180 Pro for a guide scope. Then I was blown away by the crisp clear field-of-view with an Asi178mm. Slightly under sampled but beautiful. The images remained beautiful when even more under-sampled with an Asi533mc and Asi2600mc.

The SY135mm (67mm aperture) with Asi2600mc, once dialed-in, produced beautiful images too. You need to find a good copy and then dialing in back focus takes some patience. I’ve been thinking about trying it with my full frame Canon R8.

 

These are both “fully” automated rigs with current replacement cost over $3,000 (with Asi585mc Pro, btw). Another reason to be interested in Seestars.

 

I’ve enjoyed both my S50 and S30. So, I’m looking forward to using the S30 Pro.

[LDW47]

Any links to images comparing the pixel scale of the s50 or s30, interested to see what we’re losing.

Read, more and more posts, there are a lot recognizing that the 30 is as good or better than the 50 IF you are a widefield astronomer, thats the S30's forte. Many just lump it all to gether out of .......  S30 images being posted verify it IF you enjoy widefield as is the case in telescope astronomy. Thats why ZWO listened and developed the 30.

[LDW47]

I dismissed the FMA180 (40mm aperture) until I ordered the FMA180 Pro for a guide scope. Then I was blown away by the crisp clear field-of-view with an Asi178mm. Slightly under sampled but beautiful. The images remained beautiful when even more under-sampled with an Asi533mc and Asi2600mc.

The SY135mm (67mm aperture) with Asi2600mc, once dialed-in, produced beautiful images too. You need to find a good copy and then dialing in back focus takes some patience. I’ve been thinking about trying it with my full frame Canon R8.

 

These are both “fully” automated rigs with current replacement cost over $3,000 (with Asi585mc Pro, btw). Another reason to be interested in Seestars.

 

I’ve enjoyed both my S50 and S30. So, I’m looking forward to using the S30 Pro.

You sure know how to put it out there !