30 replies to this topic

[8DobFlorida]

Hello all, bought a lightly used Apertura 8” Dobsonian recently from a coworker that came with the factory 9mm and 30mm plossls.

I invested in the $29 6mm Apertura Plossl, $29 Apertura Barlow 1.25” and the $69 10mm Apertura SWA that I’m really happy with. The Apertura SWA has a crisp view in the middle and is very wide but slightly blurry on the far edges which isn’t a big deal.

I went to an outreach event and looked through a 10” Dobsonian with a 16mm Televue Nagler and Orion Wide field 16mm. My wife brought up first and I agreed that the 10mm Apertura has a more clearer image of Jupiter and the moon in the middle compared to the Orion and the Televue Nagler.

My question is, I want a midrange 16-20mm eyepiece and a 26-30mm eyepiece to round out my eyepieces without breaking the bank (under $200).

So far I’m considering the:
Orion EF Widefield 19mm/65 degrees/1.25” for $49.95
Orion Q70 26mm/70 degrees/2” for $54.95
Apertura Super wide angle 15mm/70 degrees/1.25” for $69.95
Apertura Super wide angle 26mm/70 degrees/2” for $109.95
Explore Scientific 20mm/62 degrees/1.25” for $149.99
Explore Scientific 26mm/62 degrees/1.25” for $179.99

Has anyone actually used any of these pieces? Are the Explore Scientific worth the extra money even with the smaller field of view? Are they clear to the edge? How do those Orion’s compare? High point is having a great sale on Orion obviously.

Thank you!

[havasman]

I recommend none of the above.

 

Instead consider

Astro-Tech UWA 28mm                    $239.95

Astro-Tech UWA 13mm                    $119.95

Astro-Tech UWA  7mm                     $119.95

 

*************  OR  ************

 

Astro-Tech UWA 28mm                    $239.95

Astro-Tech Paradigm Dual ED 15mm   $69.95

Astro-Tech Paradigm Dual ED  8mm    $69.95

 

The UWA 28mm is a lifetime eyepiece in the critical low power widefield spot in an eyepiece kit. It is used and highly recommended by some of the forums' most experienced and well equipped observers. I have several of the A-T eyepieces in my kit, mixed in with Televue Naglers and Ethos and they play together very well. All these I have recommended are more modern and capable designs than those you list. The 28mm is the only one I have not used. The other UWA's and the Paradigm Dual ED's are high performance eyepieces from the currently best value supplier of eyepieces. The second set I recommended will work VERY well in your fine telescope.

 

Also, strongly consider using what you have now. Those ep's that came with your scope do work and right now they're more capable than you. Take your time and increase your chances of making better choices. If When yo do buy, remember you do not have to buy everything all at once.

[8DobFlorida]

I’ve been using the telescope for 8-10 hours a week for the past 2 months since I’ve owned it. After watching a couple of 2 minute YouTube videos and lining everything up, I was able to see Jupiter with multiple color lines and its 4 moons within the first hour. Also, Mars and the Orion Nebula.

I appreciate the recommendations! Definitely going to look into your recommendations. I’d consider $220 for an eyepiece if it’s that much better.

Did some other small upgrades like built a pull cart, upgraded collimation springs, Bob’s Knobs collimation screws and anti-vibration pads that help make taking the telescope out and setting up really easy.

What’s the difference between the stock plossls and the paradigms?

[havasman]

The Paradigms will have better eye relief, much better eye cups, likely a larger eye lens, a wider designed field of view, better construction, more consistent polish and overall better clarity in the view. They will be more comfortable to use and have adjustability Plossls will not.

 

Our club got a small Dob donated and it fell to me to make sure it was up to speed before adding it to the dark site scope closet for any member to use. I matched it to a 25/12/8mm Paradigm Dual ED set and was favorably impressed with their performance when I tested the set out. The 25mm was the weakest of the lot but the medium focal lengths were very good. Again, I was running them alongside Televue T6 Naglers from my lightweight kit, very strong ep's, and they did not embarrass themselves.

 

Sounds like you have a good start. Since you are a maker, consider building a variable height observing chair from plans you can easily find online by googling DENVER CHAIR. A variable height chair is very often recommended as THE best Dob accessory. It saves your back and makes observing more comfortable, allowing you to more easily stay on a target longer for better and more relaxed observing.

[SeattleScott]

Just some points regarding comparing eyepieces.

First, I would only consider a comparison valid if the eyepieces were swapped back and forth in the same scope at the same time, looking at the same target. And they would have to have very close to the same magnification (very similar focal length eyepieces). A 1200mm focal length scope, looking at Jupiter, of course the 10mm provides a better view than the 16mm. The 10mm would have to be a real dog to lose that battle. If you really want to take it up a notch, point at Jupiter and drop a 6mm in. Jupiter is bright. It can take magnification. A 16mm is kind of woefully low magnification for Jupiter. I suspect he had a line of people and was using low power to keep Jupiter in the view longer. So your 10mm cheap eyepiece beating a 16mm Nagler on Jupiter doesn’t mean your cheap eyepiece is better. It is just a better magnification for that target.

Even comparing same focal length, it really needs to be done through the same scope at the same time to make meaningful comparisons. One scope might not be cooled, or might not be collimated, etc. And with good eyepieces, the difference will subtle. It can be like splitting hairs. So you really have to look at them right after each other in order to see a meaningful difference most of the time. At least with quality eyepieces.

Anyway, what you are typically buying with premium brands is more eye relief (bigger eye lens to view through), or wider AFOV, or better edge correction, or some combination of those three. The view in the center will generally look pretty similar, especially on deep space stuff. Planets and the Moon are brighter, so the excellent baffling and blackening of premium brands helps more on planets. And at high power, everything is magnified, including the abberations! So premium brands tend to be a little sharper at high power. But for medium or low power deep space viewing, the main difference is edge correction, and possibly eye relief or AFOV (depending on the model). It sounds like you are fine with the soft edges in your 10mm so no need to pay a premium for excellent edge correction. If you want a wider view, you could get an ultrawide or even hyperwide. Now the view is 80 or 100 degrees instead of 70. Or maybe you like looking through those big eye lenses? That’s mostly what you are getting with premium brands that you aren’t getting now. You might get one high quality eyepiece for high power. I think you will start to understand the appeal of big eye lens when your 6mm Plossl arrives. By comparison, a 6mm Delos has something like a 35mm wide eye lens, and 72 degrees AFOV instead of 50. Of course it is massively more expensive. A Paradigm or Celestron Xcel LX would still have a nice size eye lens with a wider view than a Plossl, for far less money. But if you wanted to try something premium, something 5-6mm could be the one to get.

Edited by SeattleScott, 08 April 2025 - 08:17 PM.

[Mike W]

Hello all, bought a lightly used Apertura 8” Dobsonian recently from a coworker that came with the factory 9mm and 30mm plossls.

I invested in the $29 6mm Apertura Plossl, $29 Apertura Barlow 1.25” and the $69 10mm Apertura SWA that I’m really happy with. The Apertura SWA has a crisp view in the middle and is very wide but slightly blurry on the far edges which isn’t a big deal.

I went to an outreach event and looked through a 10” Dobsonian with a 16mm Televue Nagler and Orion Wide field 16mm. My wife brought up first and I agreed that the 10mm Apertura has a more clearer image of Jupiter and the moon in the middle compared to the Orion and the Televue Nagler.

My question is, I want a midrange 16-20mm eyepiece and a 26-30mm eyepiece to round out my eyepieces without breaking the bank (under $200).

So far I’m considering the:
Orion EF Widefield 19mm/65 degrees/1.25” for $49.95
Orion Q70 26mm/70 degrees/2” for $54.95
Apertura Super wide angle 15mm/70 degrees/1.25” for $69.95
Apertura Super wide angle 26mm/70 degrees/2” for $109.95
Explore Scientific 20mm/62 degrees/1.25” for $149.99
Explore Scientific 26mm/62 degrees/1.25” for $179.99

Has anyone actually used any of these pieces? Are the Explore Scientific worth the extra money even with the smaller field of view? Are they clear to the edge? How do those Orion’s compare? High point is having a great sale on Orion obviously.

Thank you!

The best 30mm in my Apertura 10"dob is the 30mm UFF, Apm or Celestron Edge

Edited by Mike W, 08 April 2025 - 08:22 PM.

[CrazyPanda]

The AD8 doesn't come with a 30mm Plossl, it comes with a 2" 30mm wide angle. You bought it used. Is that the eyepiece you got, or did the seller swap it out for a generic 32mm Plossl?

 

If the eyepiece is indeed the 2" 30mm superview, then all of the eyepieces you listed are basically not upgrades. Any typical 5 element eyepiece is going to perform about the same in the telescope as the 30mm Superview does.

 

I have the Svbony brand of the 26mm Apertura/Orion 70 degree eyepiece. At F/6 it's quite astigmatic in the scope. There would be no sense changing from a 30mm SuperView to a 26mm eyepiece of the same basic design.

 

If what you got is indeed a 32mm Plossl, then a 26mm 70 degree eyepiece would be an upgrade in true field of view, but the edge quality won't be much better.

 

And FYI, that 26mm Apertura SWA and 26mm Orion Q70 are the same eyepiece. They're also the same as the 26mm Svbony SV154. High Point's price for the Apertura brand is way too high.

[8DobFlorida]

The Paradigms will have better eye relief, much better eye cups, likely a larger eye lens, a wider designed field of view, better construction, more consistent polish and overall better clarity in the view. They will be more comfortable to use and have adjustability Plossls will not.

Our club got a small Dob donated and it fell to me to make sure it was up to speed before adding it to the dark site scope closet for any member to use. I matched it to a 25/12/8mm Paradigm Dual ED set and was favorably impressed with their performance when I tested the set out. The 25mm was the weakest of the lot but the medium focal lengths were very good. Again, I was running them alongside Televue T6 Naglers from my lightweight kit, very strong ep's, and they did not embarrass themselves.

Sounds like you have a good start. Since you are a maker, consider building a variable height observing chair from plans you can easily find online by googling DENVER CHAIR. A variable height chair is very often recommended as THE best Dob accessory. It saves your back and makes observing more comfortable, allowing you to more easily stay on a target longer for better and more relaxed observing.

I’ve been using an adjustable stool but I might try to make one of those Denver chairs! Thank you for the recommendation!

When you say you paired those 3 sizes with the telescope, you’re saying you tried a bunch of sizes and those had the best quality image?

[8DobFlorida]

The AD8 doesn't come with a 30mm Plossl, it comes with a 2" 30mm wide angle. You bought it used. Is that the eyepiece you got, or did the seller swap it out for a generic 32mm Plossl?

If the eyepiece is indeed the 2" 30mm superview, then all of the eyepieces you listed are basically not upgrades. Any typical 5 element eyepiece is going to perform about the same in the telescope as the 30mm Superview does.

I have the Svbony brand of the 26mm Apertura/Orion 70 degree eyepiece. At F/6 it's quite astigmatic in the scope. There would be no sense changing from a 30mm SuperView to a 26mm eyepiece of the same basic design.

If what you got is indeed a 32mm Plossl, then a 26mm 70 degree eyepiece would be an upgrade in true field of view, but the edge quality won't be much better.

And FYI, that 26mm Apertura SWA and 26mm Orion Q70 are the same eyepiece. They're also the same as the 26mm Svbony SV154. High Point's price for the Apertura brand is way too high.

Thank you for the info! I read that they could be the same that’s why I asked.

And you’re right, it is the original 30mm 2” eyepiece.

So the 25mm Paradigm wouldn’t be a good upgrade from the original 30mm eyepiece?

I have been enjoying searching the sky with the 30mm along with chasing satellites and the SpaceX rocket launches.

[A Star Geezer]

I'm fairly new and have an AD10 so I can't comment too much on eyepieces for now. The 30mm that came with the AD10 is pretty good for what I know best quality(?) I'm too new to give a comment. I have nice views with it and can't complain. The 9mm has next to nothing eye relief my eyelashes brush it when I look through it. My first eyepiece  addition  was a Celestron 8_24mm zoom ( a gift from Mrs Santa) which I am very happy with. It's giving me a chance to learn the scope and what different powers look like and can do. It may not be the best optics but for my newbie eyes It'll do till I  get the expensive eye disease. One thing about any hobby it will suck all your money out of your wallet if  you let it.  My last hobby was giant scale rc airplanes so I'm some what of an expert on hobby costs. We each have a cost value for our "fun" what ever it is let us enjoy it. A very  very wise man once said " He who dies with the most toys wins."

[CrazyPanda]

So the 25mm Paradigm wouldn’t be a good upgrade from the original 30mm eyepiece?

 

Correct, it wouldn't be. Narrower true field of view and the same level of edge correction.

The only upgrade to that 30mm SuperView would be what others have suggested - 28mm Astro-Tech UWA or 30mm Sky Rover UFF / Celestron Ultima Edge.

 

The 9mm plossl can be easily upgraded on a budget with a 9mm Svbony "Red Line" or "Gold Line" (search for 9mm 68 degree or 9mm 66 degree eyepiece).

 

For an 8" F/6 dob my ideal spread of focal lengths would be this:

 

• ~30mm wide angle. Finder eyepiece. Nebula filter eyepiece. Big target eyepiece.
• ~18mm. Filler eyepiece. Useful on a select few moderate sized and/or low surface brightness targets. Not a priority focal length.
• 11-13mm. General purpose DSO eyepiece. Balances view brightness with magnification well for most targets. Priority focal length
• 8mm. Conservative lunar/planetary focal length. Good for when the atmosphere is not very steady. Good for smaller brighter DSO (certain galaxies, globular clusters etc)
• 6mm. Moderate magnification lunar/planetary focal length. Would be about optimal for planetary viewing when the atmosphere supports 200x. Also good for globulars and a select few very bright galaxies. M82 comes to mind)
• 5mm. Moderate-high magnification lunar/planetary focal length. The next jump after 200x for those rare steady nights.
• 4mm. High magnification lunar/planetary focal length. Also good for starting to split double stars. Use only on exceptionally steady nights.
• 3mm. Very high magnification. Useful for splitting very close double stars. Also good against small bright planetary nebulae.

The progression from 8mm to 3mm seems like the focal length gaps are too small, but the magnification jumps are 40-50x, and 100x in the case of 4mm to 3mm.

 

In your case, the 30mm you have is good enough. Prioritize getting a good quality 11-13mm eyepiece.

 

Don't let anyone tell you that you only need 3 eyepieces

Edited by CrazyPanda, 08 April 2025 - 09:24 PM.

[SeattleScott]

If you are happy with your 30mm, then you are looking at a 16-20mm. I would look for a 14-18mm midrange instead. 

 

Affordable options that have a good reputation that come to mind:

15mm Paradigm

18mm UFF (SVBONY, SkyRover, Celestron Edge, and about 42 other brand labels)

 

When you get tired of the 6mm Plossl, you might look for a 7 and 5 to replace it. But it hasn't arrived yet so give it a go.

[8DobFlorida]

Correct, it wouldn't be. Narrower true field of view and the same level of edge correction.
The only upgrade to that 30mm SuperView would be what others have suggested - 28mm Astro-Tech UWA or 30mm Sky Rover UFF / Celestron Ultima Edge.

The 9mm plossl can be easily upgraded on a budget with a 9mm Svbony "Red Line" or "Gold Line" (search for 9mm 68 degree or 9mm 66 degree eyepiece).

For an 8" F/6 dob my ideal spread of focal lengths would be this:

• ~30mm wide angle. Finder eyepiece. Nebula filter eyepiece. Big target eyepiece.
• ~18mm. Filler eyepiece. Useful on a select few moderate sized and/or low surface brightness targets. Not a priority focal length.
• 11-13mm. General purpose DSO eyepiece. Balances view brightness with magnification well for most targets. Priority focal length
• 8mm. Conservative lunar/planetary focal length. Good for when the atmosphere is not very steady. Good for smaller brighter DSO (certain galaxies, globular clusters etc)
• 6mm. Moderate magnification lunar/planetary focal length. Would be about optimal for planetary viewing when the atmosphere supports 200x. Also good for globulars and a select few very bright galaxies. M82 comes to mind)
• 5mm. Moderate-high magnification lunar/planetary focal length. The next jump after 200x for those rare steady nights.
• 4mm. High magnification lunar/planetary focal length. Also good for starting to split double stars. Use only on exceptionally steady nights.
• 3mm. Very high magnification. Useful for splitting very close double stars. Also good against small bright planetary nebulae.

The progression from 8mm to 3mm seems like the focal length gaps are too small, but the magnification jumps are 40-50x, and 100x in the case of 4mm to 3mm.

In your case, the 30mm you have is good enough. Prioritize getting a good quality 11-13mm eyepiece.

Don't let anyone tell you that you only need 3 eyepieces

Thank you! I’ll probably order the 28mm Astro-tech UWA like you suggested and go from there.

-The 2x Barlow I don’t use.
-The 6MM I use for Mars and sometimes Jupiter but it’s so small and no eye relief.
-The original 9mm doesn’t get used since the 10mm is just as clear with more glass, eye relief and a wider FOV.
-The 10mm SWA I use for Jupiter, Orion, Pleiades, moon.
-The original 30mm is used for sky surfing, finding nebula, SpaceX rockets, chasing satellites.

What nebula filter do you recommend? I have a moon and a yellow filter already.

My first order shortly after buying the telescope was the $29 6mm Plossl, $29 2x Barlow and yellow filter $5. I realized shortly after that spending more on quality is probably worth it so spent $69 on the 10mm SWA and am very happy with the jump in eye relief and field of view.

So before I keep slowly upgrading, I figured it would be smarter to just ask you guys who are way more knowledgeable and have tried many eyepieces to hear your opinions to save me a lot of time and money. I used the 10mm and 30mm 98% of the time.

[SeattleScott]

A UHC is the typical recommendation for a first, general purpose nebula filter.

The problem is there is no longer any real definition of what UHC means. It seems it has become marketing jargon. So you have to pay attention to specific brands/models. DGM NPB is probably the best economy one. Especially with Orion gone.

[CrazyPanda]

What nebula filter do you recommend?

 

I guess that depends on what your light pollution levels are. I recommend a good quality O-III filter if you live in roughly bortle class 4 skies or brighter. While technically UHC/narrowband works on more nebulae, I've found the vast majority of nebulae strongly respond to O-III while far fewer benefit from the inclusion of H-Beta.

 

Thus the contrast gains of O-III in moderate light pollution out-weigh the loss of the H-Beta line.

 

If you live in already fairly dark skies, then a UHC/narrowband makes more sense.

 

 

I recommend premium filters. They are absolutely worth it. An Astronomik or Tele Vue O-III or UHC filter would be my recommendation (not the UHC-E filter though - that's their "economy" filter and is more of a medium band rather than a narrow band filter)

[havasman]

When you say you paired those 3 sizes with the telescope, you’re saying you tried a bunch of sizes and those had the best quality image?

No, I just wanted the scope to have a set of eyepieces that a member could have confidence in and get decent coverage when they used the scope. The scopes available are mostly used by new members or those looking to try something different from what they have. That split of focal lengths seemed like it would fit the bill so I ordered them and then tried the group out. They were successful and the midrange focal lengths were very good. I have recommended them often on that basis as very good high value options.

[8DobFlorida]

No, I just wanted the scope to have a set of eyepieces that a member could have confidence in and get decent coverage when they used the scope. The scopes available are mostly used by new members or those looking to try something different from what they have. That split of focal lengths seemed like it would fit the bill so I ordered them and then tried the group out. They were successful and the midrange focal lengths were very good. I have recommended them often on that basis as very good high value options.

Are the Astro-Tech Paradigms and the Astro-Tech UWA just as good? Just a wider field of view? Or are the paradigms the way to go?

[havasman]

Are the Astro-Tech Paradigms and the Astro-Tech UWA just as good? Just a wider field of view? Or are the paradigms the way to go?

My experience with the Paradigms was 6 or 7 years before the AT UWA's were a thing. I now have a 7mm UWA in my lightweight travel kit between 13, 5 & 3.5T6 Naglers and it plays well there. The Paradigms are unlikely to do that. My experience with the AT eyepiece lines is that they generally outperform their price point and as you move up Paradigms to UWA's to XWA's you get more. When I bought the UWA I was not tempted to get a Paradigm Dual ED instead. I wanted higher performance but didn't really want to spend T6 money for an eyepiece that'll get used a few times a year. If you could get Ethos performance for < $75 a pop, everybody would use whatever did that. But you can't. You can, however, get good value for your $ at different price points.

 

You have to balance your conditions and needs to make your purchase. 

[SeattleScott]

Are the Astro-Tech Paradigms and the Astro-Tech UWA just as good? Just a wider field of view? Or are the paradigms the way to go?

Both are affordable lines that are inconsistent, like most affordable series. Basically some focal lengths are better than others, so it can be hard to say one outperforms the other, especially as the focal lengths don’t often line up. Ultimately you should mainly think of it as 60 AFOV budget alternative to the 80 AFOV UWA series. There is quite a difference between 60 and 80 AFOV. But there is a considerable difference in price too.

[8DobFlorida]

Both are affordable lines that are inconsistent, like most affordable series. Basically some focal lengths are better than others, so it can be hard to say one outperforms the other, especially as the focal lengths don’t often line up. Ultimately you should mainly think of it as 60 AFOV budget alternative to the 80 AFOV UWA series. There is quite a difference between 60 and 80 AFOV. But there is a considerable difference in price too.

Which ones did you find to be the best of the series that you’ve tried? Both the 60 and 80.

[SeattleScott]

Which ones did you find to be the best of the series that you’ve tried? Both the 60 and 80.

I don’t have the eyepieces myself, but word on the street is if you have a fast scope, avoid the 25 and 18 Paradigm, and the 16 UWA.

[Oldfracguy]

Thank you for the info! I read that they could be the same that’s why I asked.

And you’re right, it is the original 30mm 2” eyepiece.

So the 25mm Paradigm wouldn’t be a good upgrade from the original 30mm eyepiece?

I have been enjoying searching the sky with the 30mm along with chasing satellites and the SpaceX rocket launches.

I totally agree--it would not be a good upgrade.  The 25mm Paradigm has quite a lot of astigmatism around the outer portion of the field of view, where stars appear misshapen.  It's not Coma, because I see the same thing with the 25mm Paradigm in an f/11 ED refractor.  I ended up replacing my 25mm Paradigm with this 2" eyepiece, and have been quite pleased with its performance even in my 6" f/6 Newtonian:

 

https://www.cameraco...degree-swa.html

 

That eyepiece performs almost as well as the famous 2" 30mm UFF (which I have), but at a price more like an Agena/Apertura/Orion Q70 SWA (which I also have).  By the way, the 2" 26mm SWA is probably the worst of the 26/32/38mm SWA series.  I've had the Apertura 26mm SWA and the Agena clone. This Arcturus Ebony 22mm is a much better performer than either of those eyepieces.

Edited by Oldfracguy, 12 April 2025 - 07:06 PM.

[8DobFlorida]

I totally agree--it would not be a good upgrade. The 25mm Paradigm has quite a lot of astigmatism around the outer portion of the field of view, where stars appear misshapen. It's not Coma, because I see the same thing with the 25mm Paradigm in an f/11 ED refractor. I ended up replacing my 25mm Paradigm with this 2" eyepiece, and have been quite pleased with its performance even in my 6" f/6 Newtonian:

https://www.cameraco...degree-swa.html

That eyepiece performs almost as well as the famous 2" 30mm UFF (which I have), but at a price more like an Agena/Apertura/Orion Q70 SWA (which I also have). By the way, the 2" 26mm SWA is probably the worst of the 26/32/38mm SWA series. I've had the Apertura 26mm SWA and the Agena clone. This Arcturus Ebony 22mm is a much better performer than either of those eyepieces.

Thank you for the heads up on the Apertura 26mm.


Now I’m stuck between getting both the 8mm and 12mm Paradigm or the just getting one 10mm or 13mm UWA

[scotsman328i]

I just recently purchased the Agena 32mm SWA 70 deg ocular for outreach and public events. It’s a very good eyepiece. It does get a little cloudy on the edges for the last 10-15 deg FOV, but only mild. For $95 I find it a great buy for the price point.

[asterope62]

I own a Agena 26mm SWA, it's a decent eyepiece,  comparable to the TeleVue 27mm Panoptic (although not as sharp along the edges). It is my most used eyepiece at public star parties.