107 replies to this topic

[bobhen]

Let me guess, you didn't see this coming??????

Of course I did. But that doesn't mean I like it or can do much about it or think it's a wise policy.  The poster posted: I think the Tarriff crap will be settled soon. No worries

 

My reply contained 2 worries already. The multi thousand dollar increase in car prices that is happening now. And for us here on CN, the increase in astronomy equipment.

 

Bob

[Dave Novoselsky]

I think the Tarriff crap will be settled soon. No worries.

Want to offer odds?

[Dave Novoselsky]

I have zero wish to set up a user fee.  If you want to donate that is awesome and appreciated.  

You are a standup guy.  My sincere respect and gratitude.

[bobhen]

I don't foresee Astrophysics making an $1,100 4" ED refractor.

I admit I'm one of those folks that never even PONDER buying an AP scope because it's FAR beyond my budget (and I've got an NP101).  But it's also true Astrophysics prices are perfectly justifiable.

Get a scope from Astro-Tech?  It has to meet a decently-high quality spec.  Takahashi?  Higher quality spec and likely much higher scrap rate.

Astrophysics?  It's not just a high QC spec; it's *one guy* named Roland Christen's QC spec.  And his QC spec is simple -- if he can improve upon it, he will.  When he can't, then and only then will it go out the door.  The embodiment of Vince Lombardi's musing that perfection is unobtainable but excellence can be attained in its pursuit.

When Stellarvue released its now discontinued SVX102D doublets, those ran ~$2,000.  They're very well regarded and they meet a high QC spec.  But knowing Astrophysics' reputation on what they put their stamp on I simply cannot imagine them releasing a 4" f/7 ED doublet into the wild for anything less than $4,000.

Clear Skies,

Phil

I don't see AP releasing a $1,100 4" refractor either. I was being sarcastic.

 

I was pointing out that no US refractor maker will now start making $1,100 apo refractors. And if they did, the cost would be hugely more expensive than what is being imported now. And even if Synta built a factory over here (which would take years) and used American workers, the cost would be much more than what is being imported now. 

 

That's why this new tariff policy is (and I'll be respective to the TOS and say) flawed.

 

And FYI, the US is second in the world (to China) in industrial output. There is no depression in US manufacturing. So the rational for these tariffs is also flawed, if that was really the rational to begin with. If we have income disparity here in the US, it's because of our flawed homegrown policies. 

 

Bob

[Cryhavoc38]

Of course I did. But that doesn't mean I like it or can do much about it or think it's a wise policy.  The poster posted: I think the Tarriff crap will be settled soon. No worries

 

My reply contained 2 worries already. The multi thousand dollar increase in car prices that is happening now. And for us here on CN, the increase in astronomy equipment.

 

Bob

while its not a good plan for retailers, as a consumer, we just have to sit it out and take a wait and see approach.

regarding car price increases..do you need a brand new one now or will a CPO suit the need?

 

For that matter, do you need to replace what you currently have or can you hang tight and let the dust settle?

 

i understand the need to get something asap that I want...but for now, I'm waiting on the sidelines for something that I had planned to purchase in April.

[gwlee]

I made donations to CN during the pandemic, will consider doing so again in response to the current tariff fiasco, and encourage others to consider doing so. 

[aiken999]

I also make a donation from time to time and appreciate what Mike has done for all of us! Hope more of us donate so we can help keep the lights on. If this continues it could spell the end for some of the dealers...

[CHASLX200]

Really. I was thinking of buying a BMW M240 this year. I have one now and love the car. A day or two ago the base price just jumped around $2,200. There are no changes to the car. This is not a new year or new model price hike. Last year the price increased by only $500. So this $2,200 out of the blue price increase is only due to the tariffs. And, who knows, that might not be the last increase. I guess I could wait for BMW to build a plant that produces the 2 series here in the US. What a joke.

 

Maybe we could all wait for Synta or the other Chinese optical companies to build planets here in the US. What do you think the cost of a 4" F7 ED doublet like the $1,100 Astro-Tech 102 EDL  F7 would be if it was produced here in the US? Or maybe Astro-Physics will start producing $1,100 4" ED doublet refractors.

 

Bob

Never gonna build planets here. No room.

[CHASLX200]

I have zero wish to set up a user fee.  If you want to donate that is awesome and appreciated.  

Thanks. But if it ever came to the crunch i think many would pay each year to use the site. 

[Phillip Creed]

That was prior to having to cover 145% tariff plus duty.  Plans change and money has to be made to cover the new expenses.  The next step will be $1999 if the tariffs can't be brought down as our cost would be just below current retail.  These prices also include us eating some of the margin to help keep costs in check.

Bummer, but I get it, Mike.

And I agree with kmparsons -- $1600 for the AT115EDT is still a great deal for what you get.  I'd honestly say $2,000 still is.

The problem facing anyone relying on imports that don't have an alternative American supplier is the capricious, "tariff by tweet", environment that makes it impossible to budget for.  I can't speak for Mike, but I'd rather have the certainty of a 50% import tariff vs. 145% this instant but possibly 20% tomorrow.

As someone who lives in astronomy Hades NE Ohio, an apt analogy is the difference between guessing the driving time if going through a synoptic, statewide snowstorm vs. a lake-effect event.  One can adjust and find a safe, efficient speed for the former but the latter can involve an erratic maelstrom of flurries and blinding whiteouts that renders planning impossible and limits you strictly to reactionary measures.


Clear Skies,

Phil

[RichA]

In an email I received on 3/26/25 from you states:

 

"What do the tariffs mean to you and me?

Currently it means a ton actually.  We are not raising prices on Astro-Tech inventory that is already on hand, even though I will have to pay an extra 20% up front to cover costs on the next shipment of Astro-Tech that is due to ship at the end of this month.  That cost could be an extra $200K I have to come up with and that I was not expecting.  I have raised some prices on items that have sold out however.  Our manufacturing partners are working with us to try and mitigate the extra cost as best as possible."

 

As someone who has a 115EDT in my wishlist, I was surprised to see it’s cost go up, since this item has been showing, “Availibility: in stock".  

I once said that about gasoline price fluctuations.  The gas exec laughed at me.

[gwlee]

“$1600 for the AT115EDT is still a great deal for what you get.  I'd honestly say $2,000 still is.”

 

The problem facing us isn’t so much that the price of telescopes is dramatically rising. Much worse, the prices for most of the essential goods that we all must routinely buy are continuing to rise while the incomes from and the value of the assets many us own are declining at the same time.

 

The net effect of all these  factors will probably be a sharp reduction in nonessential spending when the full effects of these tariffs begin to be more widely felt. Astronomics and Oberwerk are the canaries in the coal mine. 

Edited by gwlee, 15 April 2025 - 10:22 PM.

[Inkie]

Listed prices are $1599 & $2199, respectively.

 

What were the old prices?

 

 I had this thought earlier today as well. Very unsettling.

I don't recall the latter's price, but as of about four days ago or so, the 115 was $1399.

[RichA]

I don't recall the latter's price, but as of about four days ago or so, the 115 was $1399.

Used prices should rise as well.  Just like with cars.

[betacygni]

Used prices should rise as well. Just like with cars.

I’ve often found that not to be the case in the telescope world. People seem to base price off past sales via search, not new prices. Though if it goes on long enough I could see prices creeping up, doubt it will happen fast though.

Edited by betacygni, 15 April 2025 - 05:30 PM.

[Captain Quark]

…If something changes on the tariff front…

Ha ha I bet it’s changed since you posted that.

[Joe G]

Well hopefully the tariff stuff will settle soon.  I can say one thing is that it sure tells US and other companies that they better diversify their supply chains. 

 

If you think this tariff stuff is bad, imagine China invading Taiwan.

[Terra Nova]

I think the Tarriff crap will be settled soon. No worries.

Good luck with that!

[Terra Nova]

Well hopefully the tariff stuff will settle soon. 

Hope springs eternal!

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[davidmalanick]

Just remember, it's a two-way street. I've seen lots of posts where people in Europe and other places complaining about the cost to import a Losmandy or Astro-Physics mount. It would be nice to have no tariffs worldwide, but that will never happen.  

[Astronomics]

We we prepared to eat the 20% tariffs, once they hit 54% the price had to go up, now with 145% tariffs they are impossible to bring in.  

[Heywood]

We we prepared to eat the 20% tariffs, once they hit 54% the price had to go up, now with 145% tariffs they are impossible to bring in.  

 

Does that mean you may have to discontinue all Chinese products?

[Astronomics]

What if means is at 145% tariff the AT102ED would go to almost $1100 retail with me taking a haircut on the margin. It also means that we have to raise 130% more money to pay a tariff.  It is unsustainable in this particular business to have tariffs that high for every single company. To not bring in a Chinese product means that basically every telescope and astronomy camera would cease to exist here under current pricing.   Banks will not want to loan, I would be unwilling to take out a loan to pay a tax like that.  It is a bad situation for this entire industry currently.  The consumer might pay a higher price, but will companies be willing to pay 145% more for a product?  I have my doubts that people would pay $150 for a paradigm eyepiece instead of $70.  Or $275 for the Voyager 3 head.  

[starman876]

let's not forget how we got here.  The citizens of the US buy mostly on price. We are capitalists, after all. 

 

Retailers and Suppliers must buy the lowest cost products available, simply to stay competitive and in business.

 

The end result is that many products are being shipped into the U.S. at prices that are impossible for a U.S. manufacturer to match because labor costs are so cheap overseas.

Edited by starman876, 16 April 2025 - 09:13 PM.

[CHASLX200]

Way too much to read. All i see is the economy is gonna be wrecked.