78 replies to this topic

[itsjack]

I'm quite new to astronomy, and I've recently enjoyed observing some galaxies with my 6" reflector. The faintest galaxies I have been able to see so far are M81 and M82, and I have additionally seen the andromeda galaxy. As I know galaxy magnitude can be misleading, what galaxies will I be able to see that are similar in difficulty to M81 and M82 with my telescope?

[snakehelah]

Same, quite new - I have an 8" dob and I have only really been able to see m81 and m82 during this new galaxy season. m81 was a faint core + a lil bit of very faint halo and m82 could make out its overall fuzzy "stick" or "cigar" like shape.

I tried some others but couldn't really see anything. M31 isn't high enough yet for me to observe. I will say I'm around bortle 5-6 so I don't think galaxies would be very visible in my location anyway.

Have not had a chance to go to a dark zone to compare, but I also wonder which others would be possible to observe from my backyard. M81/M82 are quite visible for galaxies tbh considering my location. Maybe they set an overly optimistic precedent for how other galaxies should look like, or so I heard. Others aren't nearly as visible?

Edited by snakehelah, 20 April 2025 - 10:58 AM.

[bokemon]

I am not an experienced galaxy viewer by far, but my advice would be: Get a camera and do EAA.

Galaxies are diffuse objects, so your ability to see them ONLY depends on the amount of light pollution there is.  (Plus your experience, of course)  Larger aperture doesn't help because that does not boost contrast.  But with a camera, you can do long exposures plus contrast boost and background subtraction.

[itsjack]

I've managed to see similar detail in both M81 and M82. I could see a bright core with wisps of a halo around M81, and a clearly elongated shape of M82. 

 

When I looked at Andromeda late in last year, it just appeared like a larger M81. I think I managed to see a dwarf galaxy of Andromeda but I was never sure. 

 

What other galaxies did you try to see?

[itsjack]

I'd be a complete beginner to any kind of astrophotography, but it's definitely something I'd consider. 

[Alex65]

I also use a 6" Dob and some of my favorite galaxies to view through it are in Leo.

 

Firstly is the Leo Triplet (M65, M66 & NGC3628). I also love hunting down NGC2903 near Lambda Leonis. 

 

They are all around mag 9 or so and I can see them from my backyard in the suburbs (Bortle 5 / 6). 

Edited by Alex65, 20 April 2025 - 11:15 AM.

[itsjack]

I have heard of the leo triplet, I did try to see the galaxies once but leo was quite low in the sky. Now that it's higher in the sky I might try again. Do you know how much detail I might be able to see of the galaxies?

[Alex65]

I have heard of the leo triplet, I did try to see the galaxies once but leo was quite low in the sky. Now that it's higher in the sky I might try again. Do you know how much detail I might be able to see of the galaxies?

Well, you're not going to see too much detail through a 6" 'scope. You'll see the core and that their shapes are different to each other. You can observe several other galaxies but most will be nothing more than 'faint fuzzies' just a tad brighter than the background sky! 

 

Here is a drawing that I did showing M81 and M82. 

 

[itsjack]

I would be doubtful that I would get any significant detail. 

 

I've seen a very similar thing to what your sketch of M81 and M82 appears like. M82 seemed alot thinner but that could be me just missing some fainter details. 

 

M81 and M82 are probably my favourite things to see in the night sky at the moment. They're easy to find, interesting to look at, and really cool to see in the same field of view.

[vtornado]

Galaxies are very much about sky quality.  How dark is your sky?  How transparent is your sky?  How high is the galaxy over the horizon?   Like you I am confined to M81, M82, M31 and this is in an 8 inch scope.   I could "detect" one of the leo triplet members.   My backyard is Bortle 8,  My club's public site is roughly bortle 7

 

Use EAA or go to a dark site.

 

The easiest galaxies are those that are high above the horizion and have a high surface brightness.    Surface brightness is stated magnitude / square arc seconds.  Confounding the issue is that bright galactic cores are brighter than the arms, so surface brightness is not uniform over the entire area.

 

This is a good treatise on urban observing and surface brightness, written by Tony Flanders an active member here.

 

https://tony-flander...ing-techniques/

Edited by vtornado, 20 April 2025 - 01:09 PM.

[itsjack]

I never knew the Sombrero Galaxy was so accessible! 

 

I definitely think I'll try and see that when Virgo has risen some more and is closer to my zenith. I'll probably try M94 as well.

 

I think I might steer clear of M33 and M101 because the low surface brightness will likely get in my way, but your post was so useful!

[Dave Mitsky]

Here's a list of the 40 Messier galaxies, their visual magnitudes, and their surface brightness figures in magnitudes per square arc minute:

 

M31 3.4 13.6
M32 8.1 12.7
M33 5.7 14.2
M49 8.4 13.2*
M51 8.4 12.6
M58 9.7 13.0
M59 9.6 12.5
M60 8.8 12.8
M61 9.7 13.4
M63 8.6 13.6
M64 8.5 12.4
M65 9.3 12.4
M66 8.9 12.5
M74 9.4 14.4
M77 8.9 13.2
M81 6.9 13.0
M82 8.4 12.8
M83 7.6 13.2
M84 9.1 12.3
M85 9.1 13.0
M86 8.9 13.9
M87 8.6 12.7
M88 9.6 12.6
M89 9.8 12.3
M90 9.5 13.6
M91 10.2 13.3
M94 8.2 13.5
M95 9.7 13.5
M96 9.2 12.9
M98 10.1 13.2
M99 9.9 13.0
M100 9.3 13.0
M101 7.9 14.8
M102 9.9 12.2* (NGC 5866)
M104 8.0 11.6
M105 9.3 12.1
M106 8.4 13.8
M108 10.0 13.0
M109 9.8 13.5
M110 8.1 13.9

 

To convert to magnitudes per square arc second, add 8.9.
 

(These figures will vary somewhat depending upon the source.)
 

The face-on spiral galaxies M33, M74, and M101 have the poorest (i.e., the highest) surface brightness figures of all the Messier galaxies, which makes them difficult targets under light-polluted skies.  Many observers consider M74 (the Phantom Galaxy) to be the toughest of the Messier objects to detect in a less-than-pristine sky.
 

* data from another source - https://deepskycorne...ts.en.php/cat_m

[Dave Mitsky]

I never knew the Sombrero Galaxy was so accessible! 

 

I definitely think I'll try and see that when Virgo has risen some more and is closer to my zenith. I'll probably try M94 as well.

 

I think I might steer clear of M33 and M101 because the low surface brightness will likely get in my way, but your post was so useful!

Sorry, I inadvertently deleted the wrong post.  I'll try to reconstruct it.

 

[sevenofnine]

Each type of telescope and it's size will reveal objects according to your sky conditions. For an overall idea of what to look for and how to find them, it's hard to beat the classic "Turn Left At Orion" by Guy Consolmagno and Dan Davis. It will show you what, when and where to look for each one with realistic sketches rather than unrealistic photographs. If you want to consider a modern way of viewing the "dim stuff" then look into a smart telescope. The Seestar S50 has been lots of fun for me.

Good luck! 

 

.

Edited by sevenofnine, 20 April 2025 - 03:36 PM.

[GolgafrinchanB]

If you use sky safari, I'd recommend Observe > Observing Lists > + Create List > Import List > 111 Objects For Light Polluted Skies

It's based on a Sky & Telescope article by James Mullaney and contains a bunch of great objects that are easy to hit from moderately light polluted skies. I started with this list instead of the messiers and regret nothing (now I'm working through both).

 

From personal experience these are the easiest northern hemisphere galaxies in increasing order of difficulty from Bortle 7ish skies:

Andromeda (M31) - already seen

Bode's and Cigar (M81/82) - already seen

Sombrero Galaxy (M104)

Virgo A (M87)

Black Eye Galaxy (M64)

Leo Triplet (M65/66 and NGC3628) - but only expect to find a "doublet" of 65 and 66. I only include 3628 to explain why it's called the triplet

 

I probably missed one or 2, but it's a decent list of "must see" ones.

[Dave Mitsky]

There's an article on 111 stellar and deep sky objects that can be seen from light-polluted skies at https://skyandtelesc...yDeepSky111.pdf

[Tony Flanders]

I'm quite new to astronomy, and I've recently enjoyed observing some galaxies with my 6" reflector. The faintest galaxies I have been able to see so far are M81 and M82, and I have additionally seen the andromeda galaxy. As I know galaxy magnitude can be misleading, what galaxies will I be able to see that are similar in difficulty to M81 and M82 with my telescope?

I'd say the M81/M82 pair is in a class of its own. Those galaxies are much less prominent than M31, but also much more prominent than any other galaxies visible from mid-northern latitudes -- at least under typical bright urban and suburban skies. Under dark skies, M33 is arguably more prominent than either M81 or M82, but it's very hard to see under bright skies.

 

The most obvious galaxies to try next at this time of year would be the M65/M66 pair. If you're lucky enough to have dark skies, you may also see their companion NGC 3628.

 

Other galaxies that are resistant to light pollution include M104, M94, and M32.

[Jay_Reynolds_Freeman]

Dark sky is indeed the key to seeing faint fuzzies: From a Bortle-4 site, all of the galaxies in the Messier catalog should be easy in as little as 60 mm aperture, and many will show detail in a six-inch reflector. The toughest is likely M74, which is fairly faint for a Messier object and is seen face-on, so that its light is widely distributed and its surface brightness is therefor low. If you live in an area where access to the southerly Messier objects is difficult, either because you are at a northerly latitude or because there are light domes to the south, M83 may also be difficult.

 

The choice of magnification is also important: I find myself using an exit pupil of about 1.5 mm for most deep-sky work, which would mean a magnification of about 100 in a six-inch. What seems to be going on, at least for me, is that faint diffuse objects are best seen when the background sky "looks dark", so I use the lowest magnification for which that is true. Your mileage and best magnification may vary depending on your sky and your eyes.

 

Finding galaxies can be difficult: Most of the Messier galaxies are located in northern Virgo, where there aren't many stars for star-hopping. A gadget like a PiFinder can help a lot with finding things in such situations. In bright sky -- or if your eyes are not well-corrected for distant vision (or you are tired of taking your glasses off and putting them back on all the time when you observe) -- this area may not have enough stars for a "red dot" finder to be useful. I myself prefer a straight-through magnifying finder with at least 40 mm aperture, together with either a good set of charts or good software so that you can easily keep track of what you are seeing. Star-hopping to find things is an acquired skill, but one that is very useful. In Bortle-4 sky, many of the brighter Messier galaxies will be visible in a 40 mm finder.

 

 

Clear sky ...

[WillR]

I'd say the M81/M82 pair is in a class of its own. Those galaxies are much less prominent than M31, but also much more prominent than any other galaxies visible from mid-northern latitudes -- at least under typical bright urban and suburban skies. Under dark skies, M33 is arguably more prominent than either M81 or M82, but it's very hard to see under bright skies.

 

The most obvious galaxies to try next at this time of year would be the M65/M66 pair. If you're lucky enough to have dark skies, you may also see their companion NGC 3628.

 

Other galaxies that are resistant to light pollution include M104, M94, and M32.

This is exactly my experience. There is M31 in a class of its own. Then we step down to M81 and

M82, and then it is another step down to everything else.

[Dave Mitsky]

This is the gist, with a few additions, of my first post in this thread, which I deleted inadvertently.
 

My post at https://www.cloudyni...mers/?p=4592919 discusses some of the more prominent Messier galaxies.  However, the face-on spiral galaxies M33 and M101 are difficult targets despite their bright visual magnitudes due to their poor surface brightnesses.
 

The following articles describe some of the brightest and easiest Messier and non-Messier galaxies to observe:
 

https://www.go-astro...om/galaxies.php

 

https://www.insiderm...2/?singlepage=1

 

https://lovethenight...alaxies-to-see/
 

https://www.skyatnig...serve-night-sky
 

Some possible targets that haven't been mentioned in this thread or this post so far include the spiral galaxies M63, M64, M77, M94, which is unremarkable visually but stands up very well to light pollution, and M106, and the elliptical galaxies M49, M60, M84, M85, M86, and M87.

[Nankins]

There's actually quite a few galaxies that are similar to M82 and M81.  You can check out M51 near the handle of the Big Dipper, as well as galaxies like M104, M63, and a few of the brighter ones in the Virgo Cluster.  M101, while it may seem easy, is actually a dimmer due to the light being spread out over a huge area, so I wouldn't try it in an area with a lot of light pollution. 

 

Later in the year there's also M33 - very diffuse like M101 but brighter and bigger.  And there are individual nebulae in the galaxy that are big enough and bright enough to be visible in small telescopes - they look like slightly diffuse "stars".  I have always found M33 to be just as easy to find as M82 and M81 - M101 on the other hand requires a couple of tries. 

 

I think a lot of beginners focus on the very bright galaxies such as M31, and don't realize for a good while that there are a lot of other bright galaxies out there that can be found from light polluted sites.  Of course a lot of this depends on your local atmospheric conditions.  There is a place I sometimes go to to observe that is a bit darker than where I live, and one time there was terrible transparency and seeing, yet because it was darker I could see more.  The next time I went there, I went when the atmosphere was a good deal calmer and there were objects that were visible that hadn't been easy to find and see before - and the atmosphere was so good that night I not only checked out all the usual targets, but bagged more than a dozen new galaxies - including some fainter dwarf galaxies. Slightly off topic, but I also bagged Omega Centauri from Indiana that night as well. 

[LordNewton]

Here is a neat resource: https://www.nexstars...ultyRatings.htm

 

using a 6" you should be able to spot almost all of the messier galaxies (minus a few, *cough* M91, M33 you'll be looking at it and wont notice it, and a couple of other culprits) 

 

But the good thing about a 6" is that it is very portable and easy to ove around. A 10-15 min drive south of the city works wonders.

[itsjack]

I've just managed to see the Leo Triplet (doublet in my case) for the first time! 

 

It took me quite some time to be able to see them. I had to use averted vision, and really let my eyes rest and not focus on what I was "trying" to see, which I found hard at first. 

 

I saw M66 first, and then M65. They both looked like elongated fuzzy light patches that kept going in and out of my vision. No sign of NGC 3628 but that's what I expected. 

 

Thanks to everyone that's helped me with this! 

[Spile]

 

 

I saw M66 first, and then M65. They both looked like elongated fuzzy light patches that kept going in and out of my vision. No sign of NGC 3628 but that's what I expected. 

 

 

I keep going back to the Leo Triplet (I was looking at it five minutes ago) and with my not so dark skies and 8” Dob my experience of 2 out 3 is the same as yours. I’m going to keep looking though. Other galaxy suggestions and Turn Left at Orion also recommended by me. I would try and find a few in Markarians Chain too.

[Herodotus]

M104, M84-86, M81-82, easy breezy