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19mm Nagler Type 7 - First Light Under Dark Skies

Eyepieces
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#1 Durkinphd

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 12:00 PM

On Monday night, my new Tele Vue 19mm Nagler Type 7 eyepiece received its first light under the dark skies of Lake Sonoma, California.

 

IMG_9334.jpeg

 

I purchased the eyepiece at NEAF. There was no secrecy involved in the purchase. At NEAF, I enjoyed my chats with the Tele Vue crew and will forever cherish the time Al Nagler spent sharing his delights with me.

 

These days, the two telescopes I use most often are the TV85 and TEC140. I use both my refractors on manual alt-az mounts. My TEC140 is on a Discmount 6 and I love it. I want as little tech between me and the cosmos as possible.

 

Until Monday night, I had only used the 19 Nagler T7 in the TV85 to look at trees and birds. Though my impressions were favorable, I did not think this experience was post-worthy.

 

For perspective, my main eyepiece lineup is 31 Nagler, 24 Panoptic, 14 Delos, 8 Delos, and 4.5 Delos.

 

When selecting these eyepieces to purchase, I had the advantage of trying my friend’s Ethos lineup. For me - perhaps because of my facial structure - I did not enjoy the extra FOV considering the added cost. Also, I had once owned the 13mm Nagler Type 6. It is a powerful little eyepiece, but its eye relief and eye placement was not as comfortable for me (I also apparently have long eyelashes).

 

I find the Delos eyepieces to be a joy to use, and other amateur astronomers have commented the same when viewing through my setup. I do NOT use eyeglasses at the scope, yet I like the adjustable eyeguard. For the Delos eyepieces, my eyeguard with eyecup deployed is placed just above the first marking. The adjustment is solid, and I set it and forget it. I find eye placement to be easy and I can quickly acquire the beam even at small exit pupils (I acknowledge this can be due to familiarity). I had honestly been content with the 72° AFOV, though do enjoy the extra majesty of the 31 Nagler’s 82°, especially when exploring at low power (for me, the 13 Nagler’s larger AFOV compared to the 14 Delos’ was not worth the exchange in comfort).

 

When introduced, Tele Vue’s new Type 7s literally caught my eye. In particular, the 19mm fulfilled a nice opportunity with my TEC140 between the 31 Nagler and the 14 Delos. I had been testing a friend’s 22 Nagler in the TEC and honestly came close to purchasing it several times (I was not completely satisfied with the 22’s adjustable eyeguard).

 

My TEC140 is f/7 (980mm focal length). When paired with the 19 Nagler, it yields 52x magnification, 1.6° TFOV, and 2.7mm exit pupil.

Last Monday night at Lake Sonoma was forecasted to deliver that rare combination of both above average transparency AND seeing - a nice combination when you have a new eyepiece and most of the targets will be galaxies. The reality was that the seeing was indeed the steadiest, but the sky appeared brighter than advertised. This was also noted by my observing companion, Jim. The Planetary K index was flirting with the 5s, so perhaps that was brightening up the sky more than the usual. So even with an exit pupil of 2.7mm, the sky was not as black as I expected.

 

While early, I caught the showpiece star clusters. M36, M37, and M38 delighted. M35 and NGC2158 were nicely framed. I encompassed the Beehive swarm - one note here: the faintest member of the quadruple ADS6921 was crisp and clear no matter where in the FOV. I made brief comparisons with views from my 24 Panoptic (~ same TFOV) and 18.2 DeLite, and those quickly proved to be tighter feeling experiences.

 

As the clusters fell, the galaxies reigned. I could nicely grasp the entire Leo Triplet. With Sue French leading the way, I explored the Virgo Cluster and followed Markarian’s Chain. M81 and M82 together with NGC3077, and NGC2976 nearby. I snaked along Hydra, where the Ghost of Jupiter was too obvious to scare me and the M83 actually looked nice for being so low.

 

The 19 Nagler delivered a great experience!

 

I summarize the Type 7s as the comfort of a Delos with an added 10° AFOV. I think you can fairly use this to set your expectations.

 

Several notes: 1) for me, my best eyeguard position is nearly all the way down, unlike the Delos, which is higher to the first marking; 2) Jim also enjoyed the 19 Nagler; 3) the barrel is indeed smooth and slips into my Astro-Physics diagonal oh so satisfyingly.

 

I hope you find this instructive. Eyepieces are your personal window to the universe and opinions vary. I always advise that when possible, you try before you buy. I am in the San Francisco Bay Area. If you are local and would like to give it a try, please feel welcome to contact me. Enjoy the views!


Edited by Durkinphd, 23 April 2025 - 12:05 PM.

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#2 RAKing

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 12:07 PM

Thanks for the update!  I already decided to buy the T7 Naglers based on my many years with the Ethos, Delos, and the Apollo 11.  It sounds like they will work fine for me and my scopes, too.

 

Mine are on pre-order.  I wish I could have made it to NEAF this year, but I couldn't make the drive. tongue2.gif

 

Ron


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#3 TayM57

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 12:38 PM

Thank you for the review. I found it informative, particularly your comments comparing the NT7 to a Delos. Do you wear glasses when observing? I wish I lived close to you, so I could try out your N7s before I buy!


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#4 NOLAMusEd

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 12:42 PM

This is essentially what I expected to be the experience of the T7, similar to Delos but with the added field of view. I also find that like you, I prefer a much closer setting on my 22T4 (one click up) compared to the Delos (past first marking), my guess is it's needed to easily see the full field. The main question for me and most others: is the added expense worth it to gain an additional 10 degrees? With the current pricing, it's an expensive 10 degrees. For now, I'll hold off. More power to those who go for it. Great review btw.


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#5 Durkinphd

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 12:43 PM

Thank you for the review. I found it informative, particularly your comments comparing the NT7 to a Delos. Do you wear glasses when observing? I wish I lived close to you, so I could try out your N7s before I buy!

From my post: "I do NOT use eyeglasses at the scope, yet I like the adjustable eyeguard."

 

(I aimed to cover the bases. smile.gif )


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#6 TayM57

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 12:48 PM

From my post: "I do NOT use eyeglasses at the scope, yet I like the adjustable eyeguard."

 

(I aimed to cover the bases. smile.gif )

Yeah I was up until 1AM last night observing, and woke up 4 hours later at 530AM. So, oversights aplenty for me today. :-) 


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#7 Jethro7

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 01:01 PM

Hello Durkinphd,

Nice review of the Nagler 19 Type 7. Personally, I have never met a Nagler that I did not like. My 20 Nagler Type 5 and my TEC 140 (Also on a DM6 mount) is a awesome combination, so I do understand your experience. Thank you for letting us know the Nagler Type 7's are all that we would expect from Tele Vue.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


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#8 121601

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 02:01 PM

On Monday night, my new Tele Vue 19mm Nagler Type 7 eyepiece received its first light under the dark skies of Lake Sonoma, California.

 

attachicon.gif IMG_9334.jpeg


Last Monday night at Lake Sonoma was forecasted to deliver that rare combination of both above average transparency AND seeing - a nice combination when you have a new eyepiece and most of the targets will be galaxies. The reality was that the seeing was indeed the steadiest, but the sky appeared brighter than advertised. This was also noted by my observing companion, Jim. The Planetary K index was flirting with the 5s, so perhaps that was brightening up the sky more than the usual. So even with an exit pupil of 2.7mm, the sky was not as black as I expected.

 

This is my principal observing site since 2003,  My last impressions from 2024 was also that the skies seem brighter now(?).  Darkest near the zenith.  Not sure if  brightening is occasional due to local weather conditions.  I hope to meet you sometime.   CS


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#9 scout

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 02:16 PM

My last impressions from 2024 was also that the skies seem brighter now(?).  Darkest near the zenith.  Not sure if  brightening is occasional due to local weather conditions.

The night sky is always slightly brighter every 11 years on average during solar maximum, which is this year.


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#10 scotsman328i

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 02:17 PM

Thanks for an informative review on the 19T7. Definitely look forward to hearing more about it.


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#11 Durkinphd

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 02:23 PM

This is my principal observing site since 2003,  My last impressions from 2024 was also that the skies seem brighter now(?).  Darkest near the zenith.  Not sure if  brightening is occasional due to local weather conditions.  I hope to meet you sometime.   CS

I agree that over the years, the sky has been brightening at Lake Sonoma, but on Monday it was brighter than usual. There was a weak geomagnetic storm in progress.



#12 cbowlsby

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 03:28 PM

Thanks much Dan for the review!!

 

Given that you have some experience with the 22mm Nagler, what is your initial impression of the 19T7 in comparison?


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#13 Durkinphd

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 06:24 PM

Thanks much Dan for the review!!

 

Given that you have some experience with the 22mm Nagler, what is your initial impression of the 19T7 in comparison?

That's a good question that I hope to explore when my friend with a 21 Ethos and my friend with a 22 Nagler join me under the stars. My initial reaction is that the 19T7 is more refined, largely because of the adjustable eyeguard. If I had the 22 Nagler, I'd stay content with it.


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#14 turtle86

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 06:33 PM

That's a good question that I hope to explore when my friend with a 21 Ethos and my friend with a 22 Nagler join me under the stars. My initial reaction is that the 19T7 is more refined, largely because of the adjustable eyeguard. If I had the 22 Nagler, I'd stay content with it.

That should be quite the shootout!


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#15 lwbehney

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Posted 23 April 2025 - 11:49 PM

I would recommend one more eyepiece to be entered into the shoot out and this would be the ES 17 mm 92º, because of having virtually the same true field of view. For design aesthetics, the T7 Nagler is already the winner. 


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#16 121601

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Posted 24 April 2025 - 12:21 AM

Is the design concept for this new series derived ("improved version?") from the legendary Nagler 20 mm T2 line which were reported to have the "best optics" ?  CS


Edited by 121601, 24 April 2025 - 12:38 AM.

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#17 PKDfan

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Posted 24 April 2025 - 12:41 AM

Is the design concept for this new series derived from the legendary Nagler 20 mm T2 line which were reported to have the "best optics" ? CS


I've no idea about your question 121601 but i can affirm that the old mediocre transmission two Type2's i have, 20mm & 12mm, are indeed the finest glass i have bar none. 17.3Delos & 16.5XW come close though.

I believe its the polish standard they own as to why their contrast sharpness is extraordinairy.

And the TV alltime heavyweight 20T2 defines the spacewalk experience.


If T7's beat Delos polish standard then TV might equal the legendary T2's.

I still think the T3's were a much better coated T2 option but when TV saw the cost for it they balked.

Out of focus star shows no digs or sleeks anywhere and the glass looks liquid the sign of a clear polish which Costs Plenty to get.


CSS
Lance

#18 Highburymark

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Posted 24 April 2025 - 09:02 AM

TeleVue claim they don’t release a new product until it improves on the model it replaces. So I’m sure the T7s will be at least the equal of a wider Delos. Whether it’s possible to noticeably improve on that standard is debatable. We are talking fine margins

#19 jrmacl

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Posted 24 April 2025 - 10:17 AM

I've no idea about your question 121601 but i can affirm that the old mediocre transmission two Type2's i have, 20mm & 12mm, are indeed the finest glass i have bar none. 17.3Delos & 16.5XW come close though.

I believe its the polish standard they own as to why their contrast sharpness is extraordinairy.

And the TV alltime heavyweight 20T2 defines the spacewalk experience.


If T7's beat Delos polish standard then TV might equal the legendary T2's.

I still think the T3's were a much better coated T2 option but when TV saw the cost for it they balked.

Out of focus star shows no digs or sleeks anywhere and the glass looks liquid the sign of a clear polish which Costs Plenty to get.


CSS
Lance

You think that the T3's are a design that was designed but never made because of cost? That's what I've always guessed. I wonder if they made any prototypes.


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#20 jrmacl

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Posted 24 April 2025 - 10:23 AM

TeleVue claim they don’t release a new product until it improves on the model it replaces. So I’m sure the T7s will be at least the equal of a wider Delos. Whether it’s possible to noticeably improve on that standard is debatable. We are talking fine margins

But I think maybe sometimes the "improvement goal" might cause other sacrifices to be made as a trade-off. As PKDfan points out above, the 20mm T2 vs 22mm T4 vs 20mm T5 have different pluses and minuses.


Edited by jrmacl, 24 April 2025 - 10:24 AM.

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#21 Highburymark

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Posted 24 April 2025 - 12:01 PM

But I think maybe sometimes the "improvement goal" might cause other sacrifices to be made as a trade-off. As PKDfan points out above, the 20mm T2 vs 22mm T4 vs 20mm T5 have different pluses and minuses.



Yes, but increasingly they are ergonomic. We can debate the nuances of new EPs, but frankly complex eyepieces reached an optical plateau some time ago in my view. I’ve only briefly looked through an Apollo 11mm, so no experience with that, but I’ll be very surprised, and delighted, if the Type 7s noticeably beat the equivalent Delos.
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#22 Highburymark

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Posted 24 April 2025 - 12:09 PM

You think that the T3's are a design that was designed but never made because of cost? That's what I've always guessed. I wonder if they made any prototypes.



I remember an article in Astronomy magazine from many years ago which suggested the T3 prototype just wasn’t up to scratch, so the line was abandoned. The prototype was shown in the article - I seem to remember it looked a bit like the T2.

#23 PKDfan

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Posted 24 April 2025 - 12:26 PM

You think that the T3's are a design that was designed but never made because of cost? That's what I've always guessed. I wonder if they made any prototypes.


Hi jrmacl !

Somehow i doubt it.

I wish Al would spill the beans one day about the mythical T3's.

I've been meaning to phone them up at TV and enquire about units sold of the T2's and pick Al's brain about the design and basically just gush about them.

I doubt i'd get much confidential info though.

If they made a prototype then thats got to be the rarest bird on earth & worth a small Fortune.


CSS
Lance
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#24 Highburymark

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Posted 24 April 2025 - 12:44 PM


I remember an article in Astronomy magazine from many years ago which suggested the T3 prototype just wasn’t up to scratch, so the line was abandoned. The prototype was shown in the article - I seem to remember it looked a bit like the T2.



Oops. Just found the article - I was wrong. It wasn’t the T3 prototype, it was a T2. Article is still available on Televue’s website.

#25 helpwanted

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Posted 24 April 2025 - 02:03 PM

I thought the T3 design became the Panoptics instead




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