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12 Billion Light Years....

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#1 Alex Swartzinski

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Posted 28 April 2025 - 09:33 PM

Saturday was a long day. After a morning work event an hour south of home, I picked up the truck and hit the road, in pursuit of clear and dark skies in Northern Michigan.

 

The weather looked great all week. Clear skies were predicted with good transparency and decent seeing. You can't really ask for more in a wet climate. Speaking of precipitation, the previous weeks had not been kind to the forested land I frequent. A massive ice storm damaged or destroyed countless trees across the area. Road were blocked and power was down for days. Thankfully my family members had a generator.

 

Some relatives had already gotten to work clearing the field, but my grandfather and I spend some time clearing the back trails to get my truck back into the woods. Those weak yet fast growing populus trees are going to be a clean up pain for years to come. Thankfully, the evergreens held up much better. 

 

 

Some popule leaning over near my observing pad. They will need to come down soon. 

 

IMG_3067 5555.jpg

 

Anyways, it was finally time to get observing. I didn't have a massive list of objects prepared, but this was a strategic decision. It's been a while since I really dedicated much of a night to an observing project, and tonight I wanted to go far. 

 

APM 08279+5255 is a lensed quasar in Lynx. It was discovered during spectroscopic observations with the 2.5 m Isaac Newton Telescope in La Palma. A whopping 12 billion light years away, this insanely distant object has high speed winds that are blowing gas away from the super massive black hole at 40% the speed of light! 

 

To get started, I used a chart from the great website Deep Sky Corner. It did a fantastic job of guiding me to the target. Getting there was only half the battle. As Lynx descended from the Zenith, I was in a race against time. The lower it got, the poorer my seeing conditions would become. Thankfully, I found the field fairly quickly. You can see my route using the map (once again, sourced from Deep Sky Corner) below.

 

 

QZR.jpg

 

 

I narrowed in on the four stars that are circled. The bottom two were particularly challenging. I could only see them around 40% of the time with averted vision. This made the whole process significantly more difficult because I needed 100% confidence that I was looking in exactly the correct location.  Essentially, I was looking for a needle inside of a hay stack that I could only see with averted vision. Persistence paid off though. After deep concentration, 330x and several moments of steady air, I was able to confirm a tiny stellar point in exactly the correct spot. It brought a chill up my spine. Here was a faint redshifted glow 2.5 times older than our solar system. I was glimpsing a snapshot from the early days of our universe, an impossible distance to comprehend. Beautiful. I gave my telescope a little pat. This (relatively) small instrument was glimpsing targets meant for the Chandra X-ray Observatory. 

 

This whole process took around 2 hours. I started this hunt at 12:00 and I was finally done around 2:00. I had some Hickson groups prepared, but my mental tank was out of gas around 2:30. I stayed out until 3:00 looking up at the beautiful risking Milky Way.

 

While my observing list ended up being quite short, I did look at some other cool stuff. While I was still trying to 100% confirm the quasar, I peeled off to look at nearby Markarian 90, a little 13th magnitude galaxy.  It was a circular glow with a brighter core region. It looked like a Messier showpiece in comparison to the tiny stellar points I was concentrating so hard to glimpse. 

 

Speaking of Messier showpieces, I warmed up for the night by spending a good 30 minutes on M51. I could look at it all night. Those beautiful arms full of mottling and H-II regions never get old. The arm which links to the companion NGC galaxy was noticeably brighter than I remembered. The bridge had an almost 3D look. Like someone outlined the edges with a white highlighter. It looked bold and concentrated compared to the other arms. 

 

Another good galaxy was NGC 2357. It's been on my list for a long time but I finally got it as true darkness set in. Appearing as a faint edge on, direct vision reveled a thin smudge of light slightly bringer in the middle. Averted vision and 250-330x was best to reveal the outer regions. 

 

Saturday night was the type of session that keep me obsessed with this past time. Great observing conditions combined with that late night thrill of identifying something that human eyes were never meant to see. My 15" might not be one of those massive 7 feet tall dobs, but it's now glimpsed three lensed quasars and two protoplanetary disks, feats I never imagined when I purchased it. 

 

Hopefully this post serves as motivation to go out there and redline your instrument and skills. It's exhausting, but well worth it...


Edited by Alex Swartzinski, 29 April 2025 - 05:46 PM.

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#2 Keith Rivich

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Posted 28 April 2025 - 10:35 PM

Nice observation of the quasar, Alex! 

 

This was on Larry Mitchell's Advanced Observing List for TSP. We had confirmed it was possible a month before TSP in Larry's 20" scope and my 25". We suspected it could be seen in much smaller instruments. I'll let Larry know you bagged it in a 15"! 

 

There are also quite a few challenging galaxies near to the quasar:

NGC's 2600, 2602 and 2603. All around 15th magnitude.

 

Interestingly there are a few UGC galaxies in the same area that are brighter then the NGC's. Around 14th magnitude.

UGC's 4514, 4515, 4438 and 4461. These galaxies, while brighter, are smaller in size. I guess this is why they escaped early detection! 


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#3 12BH7

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Posted 29 April 2025 - 04:01 PM

I think this was the first time I was actually smiling and reading an observation repost like it was a mystery story. Will he see the quasar? Will the skies change? Was it all a dream?

 

I often think of what the ground I'm standing on was like, or where it was, when those ancient photons left that object. In your case it would have been somewhere in a gas cloud in space.

 

Amazing!!!!!!!!


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#4 Alex Swartzinski

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Posted 29 April 2025 - 05:44 PM

I think this was the first time I was actually smiling and reading an observation repost like it was a mystery story. Will he see the quasar? Will the skies change? Was it all a dream?

 

I often think of what the ground I'm standing on was like, or where it was, when those ancient photons left that object. In your case it would have been somewhere in a gas cloud in space.

 

Amazing!!!!!!!!

I'm glad you enjoyed it! 

 

To be honest, it did feel like a dream lol.gif It didn't feel real that I was glimpsing such a remote object. 

 

You share a great perspective. To think that the ground under my feet wouldn't exist for another 7.5 billion years when that light started it journey. Mind blowing...


Edited by Alex Swartzinski, 29 April 2025 - 05:45 PM.

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#5 bphaneuf

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Posted 29 April 2025 - 05:51 PM

Congrats! Very similar feelings when observing Andromeda’s Parachute at 10.9 GY. The photons were “only” halfway here when the solar system formed. The mind frays…

Edited by bphaneuf, 29 April 2025 - 05:51 PM.

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#6 Epick Crom

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Posted 29 April 2025 - 06:00 PM

Fantastic observations report Alex! Pushing observer and scope to the limit is what it's all about waytogo.gif


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#7 Redbetter

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Posted 29 April 2025 - 06:36 PM

That's a keen observation with a 15".  For reference, the magnitude of the quasar is g 17.310, r 15.387.  This works out to ~16.2 V mag.  However, that is photopic V mag, and under scotopic conditions, V scotopic is shifted more to the green, making this some tenths dimmer to the eye due the large g - r value.  

 

It was a tough object for the 20" back in 2019 in poor/mediocre conditions.  It was the first object of the night, and transparency was off by several tenths, with seeing ~2/10 Pickering for the aperture.  Conditions were costing me a full magnitude compared to a good night at the same site.


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#8 Alex Swartzinski

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Posted 29 April 2025 - 07:27 PM

That's a keen observation with a 15".  For reference, the magnitude of the quasar is g 17.310, r 15.387.  This works out to ~16.2 V mag.  However, that is photopic V mag, and under scotopic conditions, V scotopic is shifted more to the green, making this some tenths dimmer to the eye due the large g - r value.  

 

Wow! I thought it was around 15.2 V mag and I was slightly confused why this observation was so difficult.  I had to concentrate very hard to glimpse it with averted vision. 

 

Any idea how faint those pointer stars in the circle are? To my eye, they were similar brightness to the quasar. I had to really work for the whole field.

 

EDIT:  It's easy to find conflicting V mags, but these stars seem to range from the high 15s to the low 17s according to Stellarium. That's faint! 

 

I don't think my scope could've gone much deeper, but I'm tempted to go after Einstein's Cross now. With two hours and good seeing/transparency, who knows.... 


Edited by Alex Swartzinski, 29 April 2025 - 08:19 PM.

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#9 Redbetter

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Posted 29 April 2025 - 08:46 PM

The circle contains the quasar, and four stars brighter than 18 mag. From left to right, using SDSS DR15 g and r magnitudes, these are:

  • SE of quasar, 17.5 V
  • SSE of quasar, 17.1 V
  • SSW of quasar, 15.7 V
  • farther SW of quasar, 16.7 V there is an exceedingly faint galaxy NW of this one.

Edited by Redbetter, 30 April 2025 - 12:22 AM.


#10 Alex Swartzinski

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Posted 29 April 2025 - 08:54 PM

 

The circle contains the quasar, and four stars brighter than 18 mag. From left to right, using SDSS DR15 g and r magnitudes, these are:

  • SE of quasar, 17.5 V
  • SSE of quasar, 17.1 V
  • SSW of quasar, 15.7 V
  • farther SW of quasar, 16.7 V there is a an exceedingly faint galaxy NW of this one.

 

Yeah those are faint!

 

I used averted vision on the 15.7 star to get the 17.1 star. Amazingly, I also caught the 17.5 star 2-3 times over the course of the two hours of focusing on this field. 

 

I can confidently say that I've never seen a fainter stellar object. I know that 17.5 is near the absolute theoretical limit for a 15" mirror, so it's unlikely that I will ever get fainter with this instrument. What an amazing night! 


Edited by Alex Swartzinski, 29 April 2025 - 08:54 PM.

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#11 RazvanUnderStars

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Posted 29 April 2025 - 10:45 PM

Great report and a wonderful experience!

 

Fun relativistic fact: from the photons' "point of view", no time passes between the moment they were emitted and the one one in which they were absorbed by your retina. 


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#12 Keith Rivich

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Posted 01 May 2025 - 01:26 PM

Wow! I thought it was around 15.2 V mag and I was slightly confused why this observation was so difficult.  I had to concentrate very hard to glimpse it with averted vision. 

 

Any idea how faint those pointer stars in the circle are? To my eye, they were similar brightness to the quasar. I had to really work for the whole field.

 

EDIT:  It's easy to find conflicting V mags, but these stars seem to range from the high 15s to the low 17s according to Stellarium. That's faint! 

 

I don't think my scope could've gone much deeper, but I'm tempted to go after Einstein's Cross now. With two hours and good seeing/transparency, who knows.... 

Also keep in mind quasars are variable. Not to rare to see one change a little in brightness over smallish time scales. Scott and I looked at the "quad quasar (not sure its designation)" in Crater. Scott had a positive observation previously. At TSP with my 25" in good conditions we saw nothing. Black empty space where the quasar was supposed to be! Our guess was Scott caught it at some maximum brightness. I'll keep this one on my observing list to see if it resurfaces. 


Edited by Keith Rivich, 01 May 2025 - 01:58 PM.

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#13 sgottlieb

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Posted 01 May 2025 - 05:09 PM

Congrats on catching a glimpse of those distant photons.  I observed the lensed quasar a couple of times in 2005 and 2006 with my 18" and I also found it challenging -- which made the observation quite exciting.

 

Not only is APM 08279+5255 is a lensed quasar, just a year after discovery it was found to be a triple-lensed quasar in a 1999 study using the HST.  Two equal mag components are separated by just under 0.4" and a third fainter image is between these two -- so we're seeing their combined light.  The authors modeled the total lensing magnification of the primary source at 90x, otherwise we would not be seeing this quasar.

 

For another magnitude source, A 2009 photometric survey of quasars by Ojha et al. reported V = 16.45.


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#14 Herodotus

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Posted 02 May 2025 - 11:48 AM

Great write up and report. Congrats on such an interesting object and challenging pursuit!
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