27 replies to this topic

[Amarok]

Hi everyone,
 

I'm looking to start deep-sky astrophotography and I've narrowed it down to two possible setups - one more budget-friendly, the other more advanced and future-proof. I plan to shoot from a suburban area (Bortle 5–6) and eventually travel to darker sites. My main interests are nebulae and galaxies, and I'd like a setup that I can grow with.
 

I'd love your thoughts on which of these two options would be better for a beginner who's serious about progressing in the hobby.
 

Setup 1 – Budget (~$3,000 USD):

• Telescope: William Optics Z61 or RedCat 51 (~$900)
• Mount: Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer GTi + tripod (~$750)
• Camera: ZWO ASI533MC Pro (~$1,000)
• Guiding: ZWO 30mm Mini Guide Scope + ASI120MM Mini (~$300)
• Controller: ASIAIR Mini (~$270)
• Filter: Optolong L-eXtreme 2" or similar (~$200)

 

Setup 2 – Mid-tier (~$5,000 USD):

• Telescope: William Optics Z61 II + Flat61A (~$1,000)
• Mount: iOptron GEM28 with LiteRoc tripod (~$1,400)
• Camera: ZWO ASI294MC Pro (~$1,350)
• Guiding: ZWO 30mm Mini Guide Scope + ASI120MM Mini (~$300)
• Controller: ASIAIR Mini (~$270)
• Filters: SVBONY SV220 Dual-Band + ZWO UV/IR Cut (~$275)

 

 

Would the jump to the more expensive setup be noticeably beneficial in terms of learning curve, image quality, or long-term satisfaction? Or would I be better off starting with the lighter rig and upgrading later as I gain experience?

Any insight, feedback, or suggestions would be really appreciated!
 

Clear skies 🙌

[Monel76]

Setup 2 but with ASI533MC Pro instead od ASI294

[Tapio]

I would take the #2 setup but change camera for ASI533MC (smaller sensor but easier for beginner).

 

Always worth to look for second hand market options too.

[joshman]

Actually, i would say, option #1, but swap the mount, and get the Redcat over the ZS61.

 

Given all the tarriff shenanigans, keep an eye on the secondhand markets and you might snag some bargains. Keep an eye out for an AM3 or AM5 secondhand as well

[matt_astro_tx]

Don't spend your money on the ZWO guidescope.  Get a Svbony SV165.  Same optical system in terms of specs for half the price.  It will guide just as well.  And it's still red/black so the same color scheme even.

 

Otherwise system #1 is essentially what I use but I have a regular Star Adventurer though, not the GTI.  It works admirably for me, albeit with some limitations being just a star tracker.  That being said I do agree with Josh that the iOptron mount would be a superior option, and the $50 you save getting the SV165 guidescope will help (a little) with the extra cost!  +1 for the RedCat too.

[afd33]

Neither. If I had $5000 (and I'm ignoring taxes) and was starting out here's what my set up would be.

 

Sky-Watcher Wave 150i + Steel Tripod ($2400)

 

W/O Redcat 51 f/4.9 ($800) or ZWO FF65 ($900)

 

Guiding scope + ASI120mm Mini ($300)

 

ASIAIR Plus ($349)

 

ASI533MC Pro ($720)

 

ZWO EAF ($200)

 

Pixinsight ($300) + RC Astro's Xterminator addons (~$200)

 

Total: $5369 ($100 less with the Redcat)

 

And if I was that worried about the overage, I'd hold off on buying the EAF or RC Astro tools. Then I'd add filters later. Personally I would look in to a mini PC and being able to go with more than just ZWO stuff, but since you went with an ASIAIR I figured I'd leave it in there.

 

To me the mount I picked gives you much more room to grow. I would stick with the 533, it's a great little camera. Your guiding choice is fine for widefield refractors. Then your for your telescope choice, I would skip the Z61. After you buy the flattener it's just about as expensive (or more) than other much better telescopes.

Edited by afd33, 29 April 2025 - 04:25 AM.

[Spaceman 56]

Mount: Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer GTi + tripod

 

Mount: iOptron GEM28 with LiteRoc tripod 

the iOptron has a larger weight limit, but both these mounts are pretty small. 

 

if I had $5000 to spend on a s Astro set up I would buy the following.

 

1. a second hand EQ6R Pro. rated for 20KG it future proofs you for a couple of years or so.

 

2. a second hand 90mm Triplet refractor. Stellarvue or similar.

 

3. a second hand ZWO-533, or a 2600MC if budget permits.

 

4. a Skywatcher Evoguide 50ED guide-scope and a ZWO-120mm guide camera.

 

Then Download Nina or Ekos, and run the equipment from any computer thats available.  

 

Most of us end up buying much bigger mounts than we started with, so I suggest the EQ6 for that reason.  

[Tapio]

eventually travel to darker sites

This favors lighter mount (than EQ6).

[norvegicus]

Get the better mount and 533 and the cheapest guide scope, probably ZWO, and Optolong filter

[soojooko]

I agree with most of the above: go for the better mount. If low weight is important, a mount like my HEM15 is as light as it gets. Although you will have a lower max payload, so if you can see yourself wanting a bigger telescope in the future, the GEM28 is a good choice. 

 

The 533 is a lovely camera so thats a decent choice.

 

As for the telescope, the ZS61 + flattener costs as much as some small petzval style scopes. I had a ZS61, and while it was pretty good, my current SQA55 blows it away by every metric. The RedCat will also be a decent improvement.

[Andros246]

GEM28 is a decent mount I have one


However I wouldn’t buy it for various reasons, spend a little more money for an AM3 or similar harmonic mount. It’s just a better mount..

If you want I can go into why but to spare you the technical details the largest reason why is the hand controller is known to go bad. Me and 2 other gem28/cem26 owners I know after about 2+ years all have had something go wrong with the hand controller.


Mine is a very strange intermittent issue where the hand controller just tells the mount to stop tracking

Doesn’t matter what software (or none) is connected either, the tracking just turns itself off randomly cannot recreate the issue if I try it’s random.

Since the brains of the mount are in the hand controller it is a necessary thing to have even if you plan to use it with a PC/asi air

Edited by Andros246, 29 April 2025 - 09:21 AM.

[Darksky4all]

Skip the zs 61, it's outdated and over priced. I had one, it was great to learn on but the newer offerings are better and it would be tough to recoup much money if you decide to sell it later down the road.

The Askar/Sharpstar/ Zwo triplets are better in everyway, especially with the "petzval" types. No backfocus fiddling is really nice.

If you are willing to buy used, you can do way better for less then 5k for the whole system.

Edited by Darksky4all, 29 April 2025 - 09:10 AM.

[sturgis_star_guy]

No need to worry about a hand controller if using the ASI Air system.  I had a CEM26 and found it to be a very capable mount until wanting to get into a heavier payload.  CEM26/GEM28 are great to learn with.  Don't skimp on the tripod. If I were starting over, I'd put more money into the mount (original thought, eh?).  Then, the Askar SQA55 would be ever so tempting because of the  Petzval design, sharpness and all the good reviews.  Round it out with the 533MC Pro, a cheap guide scope, asi 120 or 220 camera, and Air or mini computer and you're done.  Anything left in the budget would go to a good dual-band filter.  Get a focuser later; a Bahtinov mask for now.  

[JF1960]

First, if you can afford it, spend the $5K now.  Budget for a little less because you will almost immediately want things like an EAF + PixInsight and tools.  Here is what I would get:

Setup 2 – Mid-tier (~$5,000 USD):

Telescope: RedCat 51 (~$900) Petzal is a no brainer to setup and go.
Mount: AM3 and tripod ($1850) if you are traveling this mount is amazing.  Lightweight, No counterweight to pack, super-fast setup, and good tracking with no fuss.  
Camera: ZWO ASI533MC Pro (~$1,000) - also super easy to use for beginners and great quality
Guiding: 30mm Mini Guide Scope + ASI120MM Mini (~$300) can save a bit with cheaper guide scope
Controller: ASIAIR Plus (~350) for an extra $100 you get a lot of features- extra power connectors, USB3, 256GB internal storage, wireless connect to AM3.
Filters: SVBONY SV220 Dual-Band + ZWO UV/IR Cut (~$275)

 

TOTAL:  $4675 plus tax 

 

The reason I suggest the $5K now is compromising will introduce complications into your setup.  You don't want to spend most of your time with a new rig tweaking and tuning.  You want to just plug it in, calibrate and go.  All my suggestions are as plug and play as possible.

 

NOTE:  I don't recommend the AM5 over the AM3 now because even though it is more future proof.  I am not sure the use cases that really need it.   if you want a better refractor, the AM3 can easily handle a refractor up to about 500mm focal length.   In the future, if you want a much bigger galaxy specific scope, I think there are better options than the AM5.  Plus, that sort of upgrade is going to be a big dollar purchase anyway and will never be a good traveling setup.  If you do want to spend extra bucks now, I would consider the 2600 Air myself.  It's $2K but eliminates the need for ASI Air and guide scope and camera (a $600 savings).  The extra FOV from the 2600 will be useful if you upgrade your refractor to a longer focal length in the future.  Although, I would be concerned about the RedCat51 image circle illuminating the guide sensor.  I'd research that more.

Edited by JF1960, 29 April 2025 - 09:55 AM.

[Andros246]

No need to worry about a hand controller if using the ASI Air system. I had a CEM26 and found it to be a very capable mount until wanting to get into a heavier payload. CEM26/GEM28 are great to learn with. Don't skimp on the tripod. If I were starting over, I'd put more money into the mount (original thought, eh?). Then, the Askar SQA55 would be ever so tempting because of the Petzval design, sharpness and all the good reviews. Round it out with the 533MC Pro, a cheap guide scope, asi 120 or 220 camera, and Air or mini computer and you're done. Anything left in the budget would go to a good dual-band filter. Get a focuser later; a Bahtinov mask for now.

There’s no way to connect a cem26/gem28 to the asi air without using the hand controller, there is no”control board” in the mount the hand controller is the control board for most of ioptrons mounts besides a couple.

Edited by Andros246, 29 April 2025 - 10:04 AM.

[afd33]

 

Would the jump to the more expensive setup be noticeably beneficial in terms of learning curve, image quality, or long-term satisfaction? Or would I be better off starting with the lighter rig and upgrading later as I gain experience?

Any insight, feedback, or suggestions would be really appreciated!
 

Clear skies

I gave my opinions on a completely separate setup above, but I just reread your post and noticed this bit that I quoted. I don't think you'll notice much improvement at all between your setup 1 and setup 2. Aside from the mount, I would consider setup 2 to be a downgrade. The redcat is better than the Z61, and in my opinion at least, the 533 is better than the 294 camera. The Star Adventurer GTI can certainly handle what you have listed.

 

You're definitely on the right track looking at widefield refractors for learning on. It sucks during galaxy season (so right now) because many are so small, but in a couple months there will be more than enough large targets to image.

[AstroFromHome]

I would definately switch out the WO scopes for other brands that are cheaper and have a similar optical quality.

If I would go with a Petzval design? Not sure as it is a pricy option for a beginner and does not offer any advantages if you anyway choose a camera that has all extension rings included to reach the common 55mm of backfocus.

 

You can get good Triplet Apos or even flat field Apos for less money than the Red Cat. You need to be aware that you pay extra for the brand.

 

Maybe the test from NebulaPhotons can help to make a decision on a wide field refractor that can be handled by a GTi.

[dcbrown73]

For a mount, I would go EQ6 or a Strainwave mount. (I own both)  They will help future proof your mount (the most important part)

 

Also, I would personally start with a little bit longer focal length refractor.  Widefield and fast is definitely nice to have, but smaller targets will be miniscule.

 

As an example, here is a field of view with the RedCat 51 (51mm / 250mm = f/4.9) vs the ZWO FF65 (65mm / 416mm = f/6.4) on M1 (The Crab Nebula)

 

More aperture and you will see the small objects a bit larger giving you a wider range of targets that you won't have to squint at to see.  You can always jump into mosaics for much larger targets or purchase another scope later to scratch that itch.

 

Edited by dcbrown73, 29 April 2025 - 02:56 PM.

[Notdarkenough]

I agree with soojooko; the Askar SQA55 is awesome. Better than a RedCat51, every single time.

 

Regarding the mount, for AP, the mount is more important than the camera or scope. If you are serious about traveling, Ok. If traveling is a nice thing to think about, then don't plan for it. Buy based on how you will use it most. For me, that is a bigger mount (CEM70, also good for my 8"EdgeHD) that I can leave setup in my yard, under a Telegizmos 365 cover, all year long. Having my rig always ready to go has significantly increased my session frequency, longevity, and quality. I, too, use an AA. I tell it what to do and then go to bed. The rig runs all night and then parks itself when done. In the morning I put on the dust cap and cover and I am ready for whatever is next.

[Spaceman 56]

This favors lighter mount (than EQ6).

Good Point. yes if traveling the EQ6 is not great. too heavy.

 

my smaller AZ/EQ5 Pro is an option, and I have had no issues carrying it in and out each night. add a pier extension and its even better.

 

it has been good with a couple of 100mm refractors attached. 

[Sacred Heart]

If it were me,

 

Set up number two with these exceptions.  A 533 camera, an OAG and if you are patent and look in the classifieds a used AM5 or similar. However the  GEM 28 over the Star Adventurer.  Also, a 220 mini over the 120 mini if you can.  Scopes, AT 72, no flattener or reducer to start with.  A 533 is a small sensor and may not need a flattener.  Filters can wait also.  ASIair is fine or a mini PC.

 

If you get a strianwave mount, weigh the tripod down.  No tip overs / spills.

 

If you are future proofing, go for the mount, get a robust mount / tripod, everything else will follow. 

 

 220 over the 120, newer / more sensitive.  AT72, more aperture, longer focal length.  OAG over guide scope,  with a 220 you will have guide stars to choose from, assuming an AT72 is your scope, same focal length as main camera, image scale is roughly the same between the two cameras. When doing auto focus, both cameras get refocused.  OAG is lightweight, and is mounted solid, pointed in same direction.

 

Just me.  Joe

[rj144]

My setup is about $2k with a MiniPC and a battery to run it.  I'm also in Bortle 8/9.  Here are some of my lastest pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also use Siril, GraXpert, Seti Astro, DarkTable (all free), and Affinity for processing.  So, not much money on programs too.  You don't need to spend a ton.

[matt_astro_tx]

My setup is about $2k with a MiniPC and a battery to run it. I'm also in Bortle 8/9. Here are some of my lastest pics:

I also use Siril, GraXpert, Seti Astro, DarkTable (all free), and Affinity for processing. So, not much money on programs too. You don't need to spend a ton.

I also spent about $2k to get started. All in I’m closer to $3k now.

[Sacred Heart]

I also spent about $2k to get started. All in I’m closer to $3k now.

I was way over that 26 years ago, and I did not have a camera.

 

Joe

[rj144]

I also spent about $2k to get started. All in I’m closer to $3k now.

I haven't changed anything in 2 years.  Although I'm about to upgrade a bit finally.