19 replies to this topic

[bobo99]

Hi there,

 

After doing visual astronomy for many years I'd like to enter the world of EAA, at a remote observatory that is yet to be built. (separate thread on that)

 

The primary goal of the setup is EAA, but I'd like to try some imaging as well.

 

Remote Site *unattended site*.

Bortle 2/3

high speed internet

The site is frequently visited in the summer by my family, but only once or twice in the winter. I am treating it as a remote unattended site.

 

I wanted to open this thread for recommendations on cameras, filters, and gear.

 

Mount

Will be an EQ8, but have a CGEM that could be used ( in addition )

 

Telescope*s* available to be used for the remote EAA

12" f/4 Newtonian

A 9.25 or C11

130mm apo refractor

10" Mewlon

80 mm doublet refractor

102 ES Triplet

8" f4.5 newtonian

 

Maybe a wide field and narrow field piggy backed?

 

Filters

2" dual band filter 5nm (don't remember brand).

No filter wheels yet

 

Camera

a ZWO 426 planetary camera 

2 Celestron neximage cameras (maybe good for guide scope)

 

Auto focusers

None yet

 

Remember the observatory is remote so switching out filters manually is not practical.

 

Based on the gear I have:

What are your recommendations for scopes, cameras, and filters and other guidelines?

 

Based on the telescopes I don't have:

What are your recommendations for camera, filters, and scopes that would lend themselves best for this goal?

Edited by bobo99, 30 April 2025 - 07:52 AM.

[ex-Bubblehead]

Interesting problem. My first approach would be to generalize first and see if you have any edge cases you want that are missed.

For example: hyperstar your C11 with an ASI2600 you good wide field, the ability to zoom in to see smaller targets while maintaining good detail, but you lose the filter wheel ability and planetary won't be so good.

So this brings up another important piece of information: what are you trying to target?

[bobo99]

Interesting problem. My first approach would be to generalize first and see if you have any edge cases you want that are missed.

For example: hyperstar your C11 with an ASI2600 you good wide field, the ability to zoom in to see smaller targets while maintaining good detail, but you lose the filter wheel ability and planetary won't be so good.

So this brings up another important piece of information: what are you trying to target?

Good question.

 

Id want to leverage the site's Bortle 2/3 skies to catch detail on nebulae and galaxies, globular clusters. Realize that would require at least 2 scopes very different scopes, between globs and nebulae.

 

The planetary stuff can be left for the city where light pollution isn't as much of a factor.

 

Hyperstar isn't great I think because it would require changing filters, which for a remote observatory is not practical

Edited by bobo99, 29 April 2025 - 02:28 PM.

[GaryShaw]

You absolutely cannot go wrong with a 12” F4 Newtonian. I don’t know the quality of the one you list but assuming it’s at least a bit above average, it’s the obvious choice in my view.  

 

I’m working with a 12.5” F5.3 CDK in a remote OBSY and there’s nothing I cannot do with that scope … except solar system planets and for that I’d need to have the OBSY staff remove the .66 reducer to get more focal length. Luckily I have no interest in planets - too many incredible DSO targets out there to bother with planets. 
 

I love my ASI294’s MC and MM but life is short so I’ve moved to the ASI2600 MM and an MC will be along pretty soon. Although I do a lot of EAA observing from the remote site, my main projects center around exoplanet and variable star imaging and analysis. Of course I need the MM for that and so far it’s been a bit of a bother to ask the OBSY staff to swap out the MM for an MC with all the filters I might want for EAA. So, for now, I’m content to observe with the clear filter for Galaxies and use an Hα for nebulae. Later this summer I may drop off an ASI2600 MC with the Filterwheel and spacers all set up so the staff can simply swap out the whole optics train from the Reducer back - pretty simple. Filters would be Clear, Optolong L-enhance (or similar),Hα, and an opaque filter for making darks. If I ever decide to drop into the AP rabbit hole a bit, these and maybe Si and/or O would allow for some initial experimentation. 

Don’t forget to have a realistic plan for making flats, keeping dust out of the OTA and preventing or removing dew…..

enjoy,

Gary

[bobo99]

You absolutely cannot go wrong with a 12” F4 Newtonian. I don’t know the quality of the one you list but assuming it’s at least a bit above average, it’s the obvious choice in my view.  

 

I’m working with a 12.5” F5.3 CDK in a remote OBSY and there’s nothing I cannot do with that scope … except solar system planets and for that I’d need to have the OBSY staff remove the .66 reducer to get more focal length. Luckily I have no interest in planets - too many incredible DSO targets out there to bother with planets. 
 

I love my ASI294’s MC and MM but life is short so I’ve moved to the ASI2600 MM and an MC will be along pretty soon. Although I do a lot of EAA observing from the remote site, my main projects center around exoplanet and variable star imaging and analysis. Of course I need the MM for that and so far it’s been a bit of a bother to ask the OBSY staff to swap out the MM for an MC with all the filters I might want for EAA. So, for now, I’m content to observe with the clear filter for Galaxies and use an Hα for nebulae. Later this summer I may drop off an ASI2600 MC with the Filterwheel and spacers all set up so the staff can simply swap out the whole optics train from the Reducer back - pretty simple. Filters would be Clear, Optolong L-enhance (or similar),Hα, and an opaque filter for making darks. If I ever decide to drop into the AP rabbit hole a bit, these and maybe Si and/or O would allow for some initial experimentation. 

Don’t forget to have a realistic plan for making flats, keeping dust out of the OTA and preventing or removing dew…..

enjoy,

Gary

The 12" f4 is the skywatcher Quattro imaging Newtonian.

 

Are the flats necessary even just for EAA? How do you manage remote taking flats ?

 

thanks for the feedback, lots to consider !
 

[BrentKnight]

Just wondering if you have ever tried EAA from your home location?  Many of us switched from visual to EAA so that we could see DSO's well - even from relatively bright locations.

[bobo99]

Just wondering if you have ever tried EAA from your home location?  Many of us switched from visual to EAA so that we could see DSO's well - even from relatively bright locations.

I do night vision astronomy. However my living situation does not allow a permanent setup at my house.

 

This would allow for a permanent setup and access to darker skies to take advantage of. Also what im keen on, if bad weather in my location hopefully not bad at remote site, and vice verse.

[mgCatskills]

Hi there,

 

After doing visual astronomy for many years I'd like to enter the world of EAA, at a remote observatory that is yet to be built. (separate thread on that)

 

The primary goal of the setup is EAA, but I'd like to try some imaging as well.

 

Remote Site

Bortle 2/3

high speed internet

 

I wanted to open this thread for recommendations on cameras, filters, and gear.

 

Mount

Will be an EQ8, but have a CGEM that could be used ( in addition )

 

Telescope*s* available to be used for the remote EAA

12" f/4 Newtonian

A 9.25 or C11

130mm apo refractor

10" Mewlon

80 mm doublet refractor

102 ES Triplet

8" f4.5 newtonian

 

Maybe a wide field and narrow field piggy backed?

 

Filters

2" dual band filter 5nm (don't remember brand).

No filter wheels yet

 

Camera

a ZWO 426 planetary camera 

2 Celestron neximage cameras (maybe good for guide scope)

 

Auto focusers

None yet

 

Remember the observatory is remote so switching out filters manually is not practical.

 

Based on the gear I have:

What are your recommendations for scopes, cameras, and filters and other guidelines?

 

Based on the telescopes I don't have:

What are your recommendations for camera, filters, and scopes that would lend themselves best for this goal?

[Edit} Just read your filter comment... are you building this observatory at a site someone else will run?  If not, who's "minding the store"?

Edited by mgCatskills, 30 April 2025 - 07:13 AM.

[GaryShaw]

The 12" f4 is the skywatcher Quattro imaging Newtonian.

 

Are the flats necessary even just for EAA? How do you manage remote taking flats ?

 

thanks for the feedback, lots to consider !
 

So, in my opinion, you’ll want flats for EAA. Darks may be optional depending on your camera but Flats cure so many issues, are pretty easy to make and are well worth it for live stacking and view for EAA applications. Sharpcap’s Flats wizard process will not work for a remote observatory however. You’ll need to make 16 bit flats another way and use the master flat with Sharpcap for your live viewing. At a remote site, I know of three ways to make flats:

 

1. Sky flats made just before sunset or sunrise. Remote observatories will usually open their roofs a bit early if someone has asked to make sky flats. 
2. The observatory staff may likely have a flat panel on a wheeled frame that they can place in front of your OTA. There’s likely a change for this but you don’t need to do this more than 1-2x a year and it’s well worth it.

3. There are devices like ‘flip-flap-flat-makers’ ( don’t remember the actual name) that serve a dual purpose of providing a cover for the end of you OTA as well has being outfitted with a luminescent screen for making flats. These are a bit pricy and can have problems with moisture management. Be sure to get one that folds back on the OTA or it will act like a sail and create tracking problems on breezy nights.

 

I’ve elected to go with option 2 above since it produces higher quality flats, and works with automation like Nina’s Flat Wizard. Acceptable quality Sky flats are difficult to make without a lot of experimentation-not worth the time in my view.

Hope Some of this helps,

Gary 

[bobo99]

[Edit} Just read your filter comment... are you building this observatory at a site someone else will run?  If not, who's "minding the store"?

The property is a family cottage.

 

I am there frequently during summer. Maybe once or twice in winter. I think the observatory needs to be engineered/designed to work unattended and be hands off. So I"m thinking filter wheels, motors, dew heaters, etc all automated.

 

I can go there in case of an emergency to close a roof or similar.

[bobo99]

So, in my opinion, you’ll want flats for EAA. Darks may be optional depending on your camera but Flats cure so many issues, are pretty easy to make and are well worth it for live stacking and view for EAA applications. Sharpcap’s Flats wizard process will not work for a remote observatory however. You’ll need to make 16 bit flats another way and use the master flat with Sharpcap for your live viewing. At a remote site, I know of three ways to make flats:

 

1. Sky flats made just before sunset or sunrise. Remote observatories will usually open their roofs a bit early if someone has asked to make sky flats. 
2. The observatory staff may likely have a flat panel on a wheeled frame that they can place in front of your OTA. There’s likely a change for this but you don’t need to do this more than 1-2x a year and it’s well worth it.

3. There are devices like ‘flip-flap-flat-makers’ ( don’t remember the actual name) that serve a dual purpose of providing a cover for the end of you OTA as well has being outfitted with a luminescent screen for making flats. These are a bit pricy and can have problems with moisture management. Be sure to get one that folds back on the OTA or it will act like a sail and create tracking problems on breezy nights.

 

I’ve elected to go with option 2 above since it produces higher quality flats, and works with automation like Nina’s Flat Wizard. Acceptable quality Sky flats are difficult to make without a lot of experimentation-not worth the time in my view.

Hope Some of this helps,

Gary 

Thanks for the input. Since this will be an unattended site, I think option 3 may be the only candidate for me, I'll look into it.

[GaryShaw]

The property is a family cottage.

 

I am there frequently during summer. Maybe once or twice in winter. I think the observatory needs to be engineered/designed to work unattended and be hands off. So I"m thinking filter wheels, motors, dew heaters, etc all automated.

 

I can go there in case of an emergency to close a roof or similar.

This will require an extraordinary amount of planning and technical infrastructure. Do not underestimate this.

 

There are lots of threads around CN that deal with the issues. They are spread around a bit but start with the observatories sub forum and get a good grasp of the issues. Solid power (and backup power) and internet connectivity is an absolute necessity if you plan to observe remotely.

Have fun and good luck!

Gary

 

ps: Read my first sentence above again…and again….

[bobo99]

This will require an extraordinary amount of planning and technical infrastructure. Do not underestimate this.

 

There are lots of threads around CN that deal with the issues. They are spread around a bit but start with the observatories sub forum and get a good grasp of the issues. Solid power (and backup power) and internet connectivity is an absolute necessity if you plan to observe remotely.

Have fun and good luck!

Gary

 

ps: Read my first sentence above again…and again….

The more I think about it, yes it's looking like an immense amount of planning and thought. Lots of edge cases that need to be accounted for, such as imaging and then a power loss, requiring emergency closure of the observatory, heating, cooling, etc.

 

Going to keep researching ! 

[GaryShaw]

You might want to consider a Hosted Observatory such as the one my primary gear is in. Clear, Dark Skies 250 nights per year, no set up, excellent onsite support and responsiveness and observing from the comfort of home. No power failures, no roof roller freeze-ups, no backup power failures to puzzle over, no software incompatibilities to sort out, no mice eating control cabling or building nests in the mount....just freedom to play in and love the night sky.

 

When I considered building a ROR Obsy at my daughters land in the Hudson Valley, I came up with a cash investment of 30-50k usd (depending on how much construction I did myself) and the likelihood that I'd need to make frequent 2.5 hour trips during the 'break-in' period and probably long after as repairs and upgrades were needed - a time and money pit. After I analyzed it, the idea of that cash outlay and on-going demand on my time for maintenance, just made no sense compared to the monthly cost of a pier in a professional observatory. No planning, no gear breakdowns, no surprises - just 250 nights/year observing and imaging as I please - supported by a competent and responsive onsite team. Sounds like an Ad doesn't it. I'm definitely pleased with the decision I made.

Cheers

Gary

Edited by GaryShaw, 30 April 2025 - 09:25 AM.

[mgCatskills]

You might want to consider a Hosted Observatory such as the one my primary gear is in. Clear, Dark Skies 250 nights per year, no set up, excellent onsite support and responsiveness and observing from the comfort of home. No power failures, no roof roller freeze-ups, no backup power failures to puzzle over, no software incompatibilities to sort out, no mice eating control cabling or building nests in the mount....just freedom to play in and love the night sky.

 

When I considered building a ROR Obsy at my daughters land in the Hudson Valley, I came up with a cash investment of 30-50k usd (depending on how much construction I did myself) and the likelihood that I'd need to make frequent 2.5 hour trips during the 'break-in' period and probably long after as repairs and upgrades were needed - a time and money pit. After I analyzed it, the idea of that cash outlay and on-going demand on my time for maintenance, just made no sense compared to the monthly cost of a pier in a professional observatory. No planning, no gear breakdowns, no surprises - just 250 nights/year observing and imaging as I please - supported by a competent and responsive onsite team. Sounds like an Ad doesn't it. I'm definitely pleased with the decision I made.

Cheers

Gary

+1 on Gary's advice.  I run a pier in my back yard.  I'll leave the telescope on it, under a cover, in fair weather: the longest I've kept a telescope outside continually is a week.  Usually it's much less, because I want to change telescopes more frequently than that....

 

Just for starters, I'm aware of NO mount that supports automated polar alignment.   I find that when I leave the telescope outside, I still need to tweak polar alignment on my AM5 mount.  My goal is <2' total error...  even if I get an error of <1', there's a better than 50:50 chance it will be worse than 2' the next night.  This is a really solid 12" reinforced concrete pier, so it's the mount, not the pier that's getting out of alignment. 

 

The other issue, as Gary mentioned, is critters.  You're in the country.  Any building that sits without frequent human interaction will attract them.  For some reason mice LOVE my pier's rat cage which I keep under the cover even if the telescope isn't mounted.  I'm continually pulling out mouse nests.  I've never had them do any damage, but....

 

In the 90s I owned a summer cottage in the Catskills, and had a clunker, a little Datsun, that was for my wife's car to use when we came up for the weekend.  I lived in NYC, and kept it up there in an unheated shed over the winter.  We did go up year round, but over one winter, with a lot of snow, we never wanted to deal with digging out the car and starting it.  So it sat there for 4 months or so.  When we finally did have a go at it, we discovered a porcupine had made the shed his home and had eaten a fair amount of the plastic insulation off of the wiring harness.  A very expensive repair.

 

If you had a neighbor or child living up there year-round whom you could train to address basic issues, or help you troubleshoot when something goes wrong, it might change my opinion, but this is a very tough thing to pull off.  

[Mark Lovik]

Skip the Mewlon - it's for planetary and does not have a good wide field view.  A friend had one for a time ... and dropped it for a 260mm Vixen.

[astrohamp]

First off go to the Mel Bartels' site to use his 'Newtonian Telescope Designer' "Diagonal" calculator to get an idea on your OTA(s) potential image circles.  You may find that one of your two Newts is a stand out and deserves some dollars spent on camera tech.  Neither are long distance champs given the 12" f/4 is only operating at about 1220mm focal length.

 

You may find that your Newt OTA's (and secondary size) may not be worthy of an APS-C sensor like an ASI2600 where the smaller and square ASI533 does more then just get the job done.  On the other hand said ASI2600 (or the like) behind a focal reduced and flattened APO would marvel at it's given wider FOV as a second separately mounted instrument or in tandem/piggy back arrangement. 

 

Telescopius FOV calculator can provide virtual images of objects you may want to observe within a selected OTA FOV. 

 

Platform limitations i.e., mounts (capacity) may be a limiting factor as would any clear sky view available over the walls of a ROR you build.

 

Absolutely you will need auto focusers for each OTA.

 

Dust, bug, critter problems would dictate Flip-Flap use while calibration flats could be integrated or wall mounted at say the OTA park position.

 

Battery power with AC mains backup would allow safe shut down given an event.  May also provide days of power for longer blackouts.  If the homestead is not 4 season and shut down for the long nap, then independent battery/solar would be a good thing.  This would include your internet connection/tech operating 24/7/365, full installation control and environmental monitoring, as well as heating for your battery and possibly the tech/instruments for dew control.

 

Metal skin the ROR and wire cage the under carriage for big critter control.

 

The list goes on but I have to go cook shrimp for the family.

Good luck and enjoy the dark skies.

[RodgerDodger008]

Hi there,

After doing visual astronomy for many years I'd like to enter the world of EAA, at a remote observatory that is yet to be built. (separate thread on that)

The primary goal of the setup is EAA, but I'd like to try some imaging as well.

Remote Site *unattended site*.
Bortle 2/3
high speed internet
The site is frequently visited in the summer by my family, but only once or twice in the winter. I am treating it as a remote unattended site.

I wanted to open this thread for recommendations on cameras, filters, and gear.

Mount
Will be an EQ8, but have a CGEM that could be used ( in addition )

Telescope*s* available to be used for the remote EAA
12" f/4 Newtonian
A 9.25 or C11
130mm apo refractor
10" Mewlon
80 mm doublet refractor
102 ES Triplet
8" f4.5 newtonian

Maybe a wide field and narrow field piggy backed?

Filters
2" dual band filter 5nm (don't remember brand).
No filter wheels yet

Camera
a ZWO 426 planetary camera
2 Celestron neximage cameras (maybe good for guide scope)

Auto focusers
None yet

Remember the observatory is remote so switching out filters manually is not practical.

Based on the gear I have:
What are your recommendations for scopes, cameras, and filters and other guidelines?

Based on the telescopes I don't have:
What are your recommendations for camera, filters, and scopes that would lend themselves best for this goal?

Dream scenario, good luck !

If it was me I would go the biggest possible 12 inch f4 plus the widest possible maybe the 80mm doublet or the triplet reduced piggy backed onto that.

Looking forward to seeing some eaa shots when you get it up and running.

[Oyaji]

Skip the Mewlon - it's for planetary and does not have a good wide field view.  A friend had one for a time ... and dropped it for a 260mm Vixen.

I'm that friend.  But I didn't drop the Mewlon for the Vixen.  Rather, while removing a Moonlite focuser from the Mewlon (a 180c), I did manage to drop the primary mirror--it fell about 7 or 8 inches, smashing into the secondary!  I was so distraught and angry with myself for my ineptitude that I put the Mewlon away for almost 2 years.  When I took it out at long last, and after I had bought the Vixen, I was able to put it back together and collimate it. The only damage to the primary was a scratch.  And there was damage to my ego, of course. 

 

I now use the Mewlon only for visual because it is so light and rides well on my Ioptron Alt-Az mount.  Mark is correct about the suitability of the scope for DSO work--it works, but not well. 

 

On the other hand the very best planetary pic I ever took was with the Mewlon, of the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter in 2020.  Here 'tis. 

 

https://flickr.com/p...157708237944024

Edited by Oyaji, 02 May 2025 - 10:22 PM.

[Oyaji]

Just for starters, I'm aware of NO mount that supports automated polar alignment.   

Avalon has an automated polar alignment device and claims it works with any kind of mount up to 40/50 kg payload capacity.  I'm not sure how good it is, but if it's as good as my Avalon Linear mount, it is very good, indeed!

 

https://www.avalon-i...t-system-detail

Edited by Oyaji, 02 May 2025 - 10:13 PM.