26 replies to this topic

[Tubuskahusk]

If you had to choose,which one and why? I ask because I have an opportunity to get either one and I like them both. I am looking for other points of view. Cost is not a factor other than I can only buy one of them.
I have the following types of scopes all reflectors.
I do use a Paracorr 2 from time to time.
10 inch f/5
12 inch f/5
16 inch f/4.5

[PKDfan]

If you had to choose,which one and why? I ask because I have an opportunity to get either one and I like them both. I am looking for other points of view. Cost is not a factor other than I can only buy one of them.
I have the following types of scopes all reflectors.
I do use a Paracorr 2 from time to time.
10 inch f/5
12 inch f/5
16 inch f/4.5

Hi there Tubuskahusk !

There are two 20mm Naglers, the heavy type2 and the smaller type 5 with newer coatings and much lighter.

I understand that the original T2 isn't compatible with the paracorr.

Both have about 12mm eyerelief so not compatible for eyeglasses that the T7's easily accommodate.


Good Luck with your choice !


CSS
Lance

[lwbehney]

I would get the new T7 19 mm, because IMHO the first runs of a new optical product have the most attention to meticulous execution of the design. If the quality of a new expensive line is not top notch then the initial reviews will substantially harm the sales. Once a favorable reputation has been established, an occasional dud is much less of a problem for future sales. 

[NiteGuy]

I would get the new T7 19 mm, because IMHO the first runs of a new optical product have the most attention to meticulous execution of the design. If the quality of a new expensive line is not top notch then the initial reviews will substantially harm the sales. Once a favorable reputation has been established, an occasional dud is much less of a problem for future sales. 

So how long will I have to wait if I want a dud?

[Jethro7]

If you had to choose,which one and why? I ask because I have an opportunity to get either one and I like them both. I am looking for other points of view. Cost is not a factor other than I can only buy one of them.
I have the following types of scopes all reflectors.
I do use a Paracorr 2 from time to time.
10 inch f/5
12 inch f/5
16 inch f/4.5

Hello Tubuskausk,

I'm wading into this conversation without any experience with the 19 Nagler Type 7 so I am offering my opinion from what I do know. With that being said, if the 20 Nagler you are referring to, is the type 5, not the type 2. I would choose the Former over the 19 Type7. The 20 Nagler Type 5 is smaller, lighter and legendary, a little short on eye relief but that's never been a problem for me. The 20 Nagler Type 5 is one of my personal favorite eyepieces. However IMHO, the choice would only apply if you have a source to aquire the 20 Nagler Type 5. These eyepieces are coveted by their owners and don't come up for sale very often and when they do, they are usually pricey. So with that in mind, the 19 Nagler Type 7 might make more sense. Personally I have never met a Nagler that I did not like.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

Edited by Jethro7, 29 April 2025 - 10:37 PM.

[havasman]

They're not much alike aside from their focal lengths. The 20T5 is a great eyepiece that's smaller and lighter than the T7's. I use mine a lot in the NP101is and AT150EDL. But in Dobs I'm more likely to use a 21E and Ethos generally. I do not care for long eye relief at all. The T7's are probably excellent but I am not their target market. You should consider which eyepiece meets YOUR criteria. If you like LER then the T7 is your good choice if you can deal with the weight and don't mind the cost. If you don't observe wearing glasses and don't need the LER you may be as happy with a 20T5 as I (and a lot of other forum members) am. I'd recommend you try it out. They are very easily sold in the Classifieds if you don't care for it and you can effectively give it a shot for free.

 

I have ES68 20, Vixen SLV 20mm binoviewer pair for Ha solar, 21E and 20T5 in my logjam of 20mm ep's and I use them all for different purposes. The 20T5 gets A LOT of focuser time.

 

If you're talking about the old 20T2, get the T7.

Edited by havasman, 29 April 2025 - 10:33 PM.

[Jon Isaacs]

 

I understand that the original T2 isn't compatible with the paracorr.

 

I had a 20 mm Type 2 Nagler and used it with a Paracorr for a number of years, I never saw a problem... 

 

Jon 

[jrmacl]

So how long will I have to wait if I want a dud?

I don't know why you want a dud so bad but if you are willing to pay 3x the asking price I will sell you one with scratches on the lens

[davidgmd]

If you need glasses to correct astigmatism while observing, the T7.

If not, the T5.

[scotsman328i]

If you had to choose,which one and why? I ask because I have an opportunity to get either one and I like them both. I am looking for other points of view. Cost is not a factor other than I can only buy one of them.
I have the following types of scopes all reflectors.
I do use a Paracorr 2 from time to time.
10 inch f/5
12 inch f/5
16 inch f/4.5

I have the 20NagT5 and it is legendary. I will be getting the 19NagT7 because the reviews so far say it is legendary. That saves me with petty arguments as to which is best and which one to get. I’ll own them both, and enjoy each one’s pros and cons collectively. lol.

[jrmacl]

If you had to choose,which one and why? I ask because I have an opportunity to get either one and I like them both. I am looking for other points of view. Cost is not a factor other than I can only buy one of them.
I have the following types of scopes all reflectors.
I do use a Paracorr 2 from time to time.
10 inch f/5
12 inch f/5
16 inch f/4.5

If I was going to choose one it would be the T7. Why? Because it is the newest model, that's why. I would assume it had the newest and better coating and maybe even a better polish. If you go with the T5 you will always be wondering if the newer model is better. Or you can just wait for scotsman328i and others get theirs and post their reviews.

[scotsman328i]

If I was going to choose one it would be the T7. Why? Because it is the newest model, that's why. I would assume it had the newest and better coating and maybe even a better polish. If you go with the T5 you will always be wondering if the newer model is better. Or you can just wait for scotsman328i and others get theirs and post their reviews.

Haha jrmaci, the only reason I’m doing it is because I already own the 20T5. If I honestly had to choose between the both right now, I honestly don’t know. However, from what I’ve read and heard in reviews, I’d probably push more to the 19T7 TBH.

[jrmacl]

Haha jrmaci, the only reason I’m doing it is because I already own the 20T5. If I honestly had to choose between the both right now, I honestly don’t know. However, from what I’ve read and heard in reviews, I’d probably push more to the 19T7 TBH.

Yes, I know you have the 20mm T5 (and 26mm - dang) so can't wait until we start getting more reviews and comparisons

[scotsman328i]

Yes, I know you have the 20mm T5 (and 26mm - dang) so can't wait until we start getting more reviews and comparisons

I bought my 20T5 back around 2009 and the 26T5 around 2011 or so. They’ve both been workhorses through all my scopes. I’m really interested to get my hands on a 19T7 for sure and spend some time with it on a myriad of objects to see how it performs for sure. Having a 13 Ethos, I may be just too accustomed to that 100 degree FOV at mid power to trim the view to 82 degrees with the 14T7. I’ll have to wait and see when the jury is out on it IF I would add it to my collection. I know I won’t part with my 13 Ethos though. 

[davidgmd]

If you need glasses to correct astigmatism while observing, the T7.

If not, the T5.

  
Sorry to quote myself, but I forgot the “why.”

  
My preference for the T5, if you can use it (no glasses):

• Lighter
• Less expensive

As to the quality of the view and the ease of acquiring and holding the exit pupil, that will have to wait for more user reports. Which will of course be subjective and not necessarily applicable from one user to the next.

[scotsman328i]

  
Sorry to quote myself, but I forgot the “why.”

  
My preference for the T5, if you can use it (no glasses):

• Lighter
• Less expensive

As to the quality of the view and the ease of acquiring and holding the exit pupil, that will have to wait for more user reports. Which will of course be subjective and not necessarily applicable from one user to the next.

Yeah David. In a Televue 76, the 20T5 is hard to beat I’ve found. 

[PKDfan]

For me its the absolutely Instant pupil that totally encloses the eye in visual PERFECTION and in both my scopes the 20mm Nagler at 20X & 45X the views simply set my imagination on fire; for example, sweeping up the Dumbell while roaming the milkyway in my LP plagued space suddenly witnessing it as a Brilliant smoke ring that it shocked and visibly startled me at just 20X bright background pupil (3.1mm).

Perhaps in some way its polishing is so extreme -so despite lacklustre transmission throughput its overall impression is of CLARITY of sharpness that poor contrast objects, next to incredibly tight stars, somehow lifts them into prominence ?

The lack of difficulty in locating and keeping the perfect distance within the pupil is effortless.
And to find an error in eithers presentation is a neverending battle i'm forever destined to loose.

Thats why its bag is within easy reach with its EQUAL brother tiny 12mm if doom was to fall upon my homestead and i had a moment to grab somethings AKA my 2 scopes & Mamiya TLR camera plus the old Naglers.


Ricohs 16.5XW is ALMOST its long lost sibling in those categories but more a sense of glass in the view -i don't know how differently to describe the difference, which is small for sure ! Good Job with perfect field illumination and very tight stars Ricoh design team !


And to caress the big Naglers 2" SMOOTH barrel is a special Feeling !! Lol i'm in love with the darn things !!


Clear & Steady Skies

Lance

[Jon Isaacs]

Haha jrmaci, the only reason I’m doing it is because I already own the 20T5. If I honestly had to choose between the both right now, I honestly don’t know. However, from what I’ve read and heard in reviews, I’d probably push more to the 19T7 TBH.

I would like to own a 20mm Type 5 Nagler.  Eye Relief is not an issue for me and a lighter weight eyepiece to fit between the 16mm Type 5 and the 31mm Type 5 would be nice.  Currently I have 20mm LHD which is an 80 degree AFoV.  For a larger eyepiece, I am liking the 20mm XWA.  

 

Jon

[scotsman328i]

I would like to own a 20mm Type 5 Nagler.  Eye Relief is not an issue for me and a lighter weight eyepiece to fit between the 16mm Type 5 and the 31mm Type 5 would be nice.  Currently I have 20mm LHD which is an 80 degree AFoV.  For a larger eyepiece, I am liking the 20mm XWA.  

 

Jon

Same here, Jon. I don’t use glasses at the eyepiece. I have a thin rectangular style of glasses I pop up on my forehead for when I’m at the eyepiece, then drop them down to sharpen the sky for my level of vision and view through the finder to acquire objects. 

[Starman1]

Field stop sizes:

20mm T2 = 27.4mm

20mm T5 = 27.4mm

19mm T7 = 27.1mm

 

Since this is a low power eyepiece, a larger field stop would be beneficial.

However:

20mm XWA = 34.7mm

21mm Ethos = 36.2mm

 

If you don't use glasses, the widest field would be best.  I'm just sayin'...

[scotsman328i]

Field stop sizes:

20mm T2 = 27.4mm

20mm T5 = 27.4mm

19mm T7 = 27.1mm

 

Since this is a low power eyepiece, a larger field stop would be beneficial.

However:

20mm XWA = 34.7mm

21mm Ethos = 36.2mm

 

If you don't use glasses, the widest field would be best.  I'm just sayin'...

Wow! 21 Ethos has a monster field stop! That’s huge! Never looked through one, but I bet it’s amazing! 

[Jon Isaacs]

Same here, Jon. I don’t use glasses at the eyepiece. I have a thin rectangular style of glasses I pop up on my forehead for when I’m at the eyepiece, then drop them down to sharpen the sky for my level of vision and view through the finder to acquire objects. 

 

My old eyes are fixed focus.. presbyopia. Fortunately, they are fixed at infinity and free of astigmatism.  As such, I need strong reading glasses to see my charts so, like you, I flip my eyeglasses up over my eyebrows when they're not needed.

 

In an ideal world, one has a ~24 mm SWA like the 24vmm Panoptic that maximized the 1.25 inch TFoV as well as a 2 inch eyepiece that provides a much wider field. That could be a 28 mm UWA, 30 mm UFF, and 31 mm Nagler etc 

 

I use a 22 mm Panoptic with the 2 inch skirt removed. I like the compromise, 9% narrower TFoV and 9% less magnification than a 20 mm Nagler without swapping an adapter.

 

Jon 

[Jon Isaacs]

Wow! 21 Ethos has a monster field stop! That’s huge! Never looked through one, but I bet it’s amazing! 

 

The 20 mm XWA has a slightly smaller field stop, 4%, while offering slightly greater magnification, 5%. It's also 2/3's the weight. I parted ways with my 21 mm Ethos after comparing the two for 4 months.

 

Jon

[scotsman328i]

The 20 mm XWA has a slightly smaller field stop, 4%, while offering slightly greater magnification, 5%. It's also 2/3's the weight. I parted ways with my 21 mm Ethos after comparing the two for 4 months.

 

Jon

I agree, the 20 XWA is huge also! Gotta be incredible views! 

[scotsman328i]

My old eyes are fixed focus.. presbyopia. Fortunately, they are fixed at infinity and free of astigmatism.  As such, I need strong reading glasses to see my charts so, like you, I flip my eyeglasses up over my eyebrows when they're not needed.

 

In an ideal world, one has a ~24 mm SWA like the 24vmm Panoptic that maximized the 1.25 inch TFoV as well as a 2 inch eyepiece that provides a much wider field. That could be a 28 mm UWA, 30 mm UFF, and 31 mm Nagler etc 

 

I use a 22 mm Panoptic with the 2 inch skirt removed. I like the compromise, 9% narrower TFoV and 9% less magnification than a 20 mm Nagler without swapping an adapter.

 

Jon 

Yeah Jon, I keep saying if I see a 22 Pan for sale in classifieds in excellent condition I will snag it up. I’ve looked through the 22 Pans before, fantastic views. Plus, the extra touch of magnification over the 24 Pan will find its place on certain objects for sure.