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Smartscope Astrophotography

Astrophotography Beginner
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#1 Stevan Klaas

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Posted 05 May 2025 - 12:41 PM

Starting this topic as a place to explore further the amazing astrophotography capabilities of Smartscopes of any kind from light polluted skies or dark sites.

 

This is for Astronomical images lovers that want to step into more custom imaging processing, including but not necessarily re-stacking of subframes or processing with specialized softwares of all sorts, paying and non paying !

 

It is about sharing processed images, tips and asking technical questions to get the most out of those amazing devices.

 

Why not just going to Astrophotography CN threads ?

 

Smartscopes astrophotography is not the typical astrophotography for following reasons:

 

- Huge amount of subframes because of short exposures 10-30 secs, but not lucky imaging, and not standard >180sec. Therefore cannot be stacked easily in slow softwares (ex. Pixinsight)

- Live stack cannot go on multiple nights

- Very high background noise due to non cooled sensor, resulting in grainy and blotchy color noise, that even AI struggles to remove

- Exclusively color camera shots, even in narrowband

- Not always good sampling rates (especially the Seestar30 and S30Pro)

- Star elongations, sometimes severe (S30)

- Essentially Deep Sky, plus a bit of Solar and Moon

- It’s a standardized device, with less multiplicity and depth of topics

- On device processing is a black box, that does many things with no control on it (Gradient removal, Color Calibration, Background Neutralization, Stretching), or limited control (Sharpening, Denoising, Color, Contrast)

 

As a topic starter a couple Seestar out of the box images vs processed images:

 

Bortle 8-9 Leo’s Triplet with S30:

 

Seestar Stack

Stacked_883_NGC 3628_20.0s_IRCUT_20250502-061431.jpeg

 

Reprocessed with drizzle x2 in Siril + PI

NGC_3628_2778x20sec_T25C_2025-04-25_55560s_5stars_drizzle_2x_square GC SPCC SNCR BX starless NX HDR CT LHEQ.jpeg

 

Bortle 8-9 M104 Sombrero Galaxy with S50with Drizzle x2 + PI:

 

Seestar Stack

Stacked_1176_M 104_10.0s_IRCUT_20250501-050225.jpeg

 

Reprocessed with drizzle x2 in Siril + PI

M_104_3871x10sec_T29C_2025-04-30_38710s_5stars_drizzle_2x_square Final CROP.png

 

I personally use Pixinsight only, started back in 2014, and do as a standard Seestar procedure (about 15-20 min total time including calculations, processes and standard parameters are all saved and re-used):

 

1- Gradient correction
2- Spectrometric Color Calibration with background neutralization
3- SCNR to remove greenish cast
4- Blur Xterminator (sharpen stars 60%, enhance halos 15%, sharpen non stellar 90%)
5- StarX to remove stars for later reintegration
6- Noise Xterminator on Starless (with big scale to remove color blotches) 

7- Stretch Starless
8- Mask of Starless structures with Multiscale Median Transformation turning off scale 1, 2 and 1024 and R to remove completely the background
9- Apply mask to protect the galaxies, and curves transformation to saturation to decolorize the background to eliminate the color blotches, and also a bit to the luminance to darken it and hide the now colorless blotches
10- invert the mask to protect the background this time
11- With curves transformation Boost the general color saturation of the galaxies
12- Increase the contrast of the luminance with curves
13- Apply HDR Transform to compress dynamic range of galaxy bulges or high intensity areas, (level 4, with hue preservation and lightness mask)
14- Stretch stars first with Arcsinh Stretch and then normal histogram to get non bloated soft profile stars with more colors
15- Boost star colors with curves transformation
16- Reintegrate the stars

 

What is your processing routine and software ?


Edited by Stevan Klaas, 05 May 2025 - 03:20 PM.

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#2 lsjones

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Posted 05 May 2025 - 12:51 PM

This is helpful information regarding work flow, but I can't justify processing software that costs 3/4 the cost of the s50. I was just starting to get the hang of Seril processing and then those rascals' updated it and I'm lost again. <sigh> In any case I'll be watching this thread to see what I can learn because I really want to learn how to make the most of the data I'm collecting.


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#3 Stevan Klaas

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Posted 05 May 2025 - 01:00 PM

Sure, this was just an example with pixinsight, but it can be done with many other softwares, paying and non paying:

 

- Siril

- Gimp

- Photoshop

- ASI Studio

- Lightroom

- Affinity

- Iris

- Graxpert

- Astro Pixel Processor

- Deep Sky Stacker

- Autostakkert

- Seti Astro Suite

 

Siril is really gaining momentum with Smartscopes, for the zero cost and the handy and fast stacking !

 

However, the traditional cost of software vs hardware ratio is being disrupted with Seestar smartscopes…maybe software is the last disruption to do…Nobody was expecting a little 300-600 usd box to replace an astro rig of more than 6000USD…So adding 400 USD to process is not that horrible, it is still 5000 USD less.

 

The nice thing is that there is a community of passionate amateur astronomers that happen to be also talented software developers, and do stuff for free, bless them !

 

The point is indeed to explore Smartscopes as substitutes for super expensive astrophoto gears, software plays an important role here…interesting evolutions to come.

 

Here a nice video:

https://youtu.be/L_-...EncdonWtGjveKOS

 

And of course the link to the bortle 3-4 Smartscope astrophotographer mentioned in the video:

https://app.astrobin...etos444#gallery


Edited by Stevan Klaas, 05 May 2025 - 03:43 PM.

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#4 scanner97

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Posted 05 May 2025 - 01:45 PM

Good to have a thread like this.

 

It used to be that the only inexpensive way to try imaging was with a DSLR and tripod you already owned.  Smartscopes have really changed that.

 

On s/w, the freeware is very competitive for functionality.  You could add Seti Astro Suite to your list.  

 

On noise, IMO, the problem is more about the sensors they are using rather than whether they are cooled or not.  The older and planetary sensors they started with are quite high dark current.  With the latest DSO cameras, cooling can be much less important - depending on your typical ambient.  I expect the S30 pro will be better due to the 585.  And it's possible to go a lot lower than that with current tech.  Just not for a $500 price tag on the whole device.  I'm sure someone will eventually offer a cooled scope, and that also will probably not be < $500.


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#5 scanner97

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Posted 05 May 2025 - 01:48 PM

This is helpful information regarding work flow, but I can't justify processing software that costs 3/4 the cost of the s50. I was just starting to get the hang of Seril processing and then those rascals' updated it and I'm lost again. <sigh> In any case I'll be watching this thread to see what I can learn because I really want to learn how to make the most of the data I'm collecting.

If you haven't found him yet, try Rich's Deep Space Astro channel.  He's a Siril fan and has been cranking out 1.4 tutorials on all the cool new stuff.   They went from 1.2.5 to 1.4 but could have called it 2.0 with so many new features.


Edited by scanner97, 05 May 2025 - 01:49 PM.

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#6 Stevan Klaas

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Posted 05 May 2025 - 02:31 PM

Looks like the noise is indeed also some sort of uneven response at high gain of the sensor that ZWO claims to be resolved next month by a flat feature release:

 

https://bbs.zwoastro...-on-my-image/23

 

 

Other noise conversation (jon is myself):

https://bbs.zwoastro...r-aberration/10

 

 

Good to have a thread like this.

 

It used to be that the only inexpensive way to try imaging was with a DSLR and tripod you already owned.  Smartscopes have really changed that.

 

On s/w, the freeware is very competitive for functionality.  You could add Seti Astro Suite to your list.  

 

On noise, IMO, the problem is more about the sensors they are using rather than whether they are cooled or not.  The older and planetary sensors they started with are quite high dark current.  With the latest DSO cameras, cooling can be much less important - depending on your typical ambient.  I expect the S30 pro will be better due to the 585.  And it's possible to go a lot lower than that with current tech.  Just not for a $500 price tag on the whole device.  I'm sure someone will eventually offer a cooled scope, and that also will probably not be < $500.

 


Edited by Stevan Klaas, 05 May 2025 - 03:03 PM.

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#7 scanner97

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Posted 05 May 2025 - 03:54 PM

Looks like the noise is indeed also some sort of uneven response at high gain of the sensor that ZWO claims to be resolved next month by a flat feature release:

https://bbs.zwoastro...-on-my-image/23

 

What their support person is calling "flat field correction" is an interesting mystery.  That's a range of artefacts that look somewhat different.  I'd be surprised if they could all be addressed with one firmware solution. I also don't see this in many of the images that have been posted here, so I wonder if it's a problem for everyone.  Maybe yes and the more experienced imagers have found ways to process them out.

 

Now I need to go read your other conversation!  


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#8 Sun Tzu

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 10:15 AM

Hello all:

 

Below is my basic workflow. 

 

Note 1: I do use slightly different ones for galaxies and star clusters.

Note 2:This is pre Siril 1.4 Beta release workflow and  2) GraXpert is the Beta version). Workflow has been tweaked slightly with these changes.

 

Workflow

 

 

In Siril, run either a regular preprocessing script or the Fit Sequence File Script or WBPP for registering and stacking.

 

Siril

 

1) Open in Linear
2) (AutoStretch)/ Image Plate Solve
3) Spectrophotometric Color Calibration
4) Crop
5) Review the image PSF and FWHM data (I'll use the FWHM later in GraXpert)
6) Back to Linear view and Save

 

GraXpert

 

1) Import saved Fits
2) Crop if I haven't already done it in Siril
3) Background Extraction
4) Object Only Deconvolution
5) Save Object Only Deconvolution and then reopen in GraXpert for Star Only Deconvolution
6) Star Only Deconvolution ( FWHM from earlier is used during deconvolution) save and reopen for denoising.
7) Denoise
8) Save

 

Siril

 

1) Import file saved GraXpert file
2) Star Processing/ Starnet Star Removal
3) Open Starless
4) Generalized Hyperbolic Stretch Transformations
5) Contrast Limited Adaptive Histogram Equalization (sometimes)
6) In the Green Channel I do a manual color calibration to make the color pop when I switch back to RGB
7) Remove Green Noise
8) Curves and/or Color Saturation
9) Save Starless

10) Open Starmask
11) GHS Transformations using Modified Arcsinh Transform
12) Color Saturation (if any)
13) Review stars and Save

14) Recomposition of Starless and Starmask ( I'll also do any final tweaks with GHS and MARCSin)
15) Final Crop of recomposition (if any)
16)  Save as PNG/JPG etc.

 

 


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#9 scanner97

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 10:27 AM

One quick comment on Siril - which I use and like.

 

If you decide you want to just try processing light frames to get started, there's nothing wrong with that, but Siril's default pre-processing script expects you to be using darks, flats and biases.  If it doesn't find them, and in the correct places, it will fail.  There are scripts available for download (try here) that don't make this assumption.  You need the one called OSC_Preprocessing_WithoutDBF.

 

It's very easy to download and use scripts; don't be intimidated.   


Edited by scanner97, 06 May 2025 - 10:28 AM.

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#10 Sun Tzu

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 10:34 AM

M 16

 

Image 1 Seestar Processing

 

Image 2 External Processing (Siril/GraXpert/SAS)

 

Image  3 External Processing (Siril/GraXpert/SAS)

Attached Thumbnails

  • Stacked_287_mosaic_M 16_20.0s_LP_20250429-055002.jpg
  • M 16 RED Base 05052025v2.jpg
  • M 16  05052025RLBv2.jpg

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#11 Sun Tzu

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 10:42 AM

One quick comment on Siril - which I use and like.

 

If you decide you want to just try processing light frames to get started, there's nothing wrong with that, but Siril's default pre-processing script expects you to be using darks, flats and biases.  If it doesn't find them, and in the correct places, it will fail.  There are scripts available for download (try here) that don't make this assumption.  You need the one called OSC_Preprocessing_WithoutDBF.

 

It's very easy to download and use scripts; don't be intimidated.   

Also, for Seestar users, there are two other scripts available : 1)    Seestar_Preprosessing.ssf and 2) Seestar_Preprossesing_GT2408.ssf

 

The second one is for Windows users that have more than 2048 subs.  Windows won't let you open that many files at once so you'll get a error if you run the regular script.  This scripts converts the files to a Fits sequence so you can open more that 2048 files if needed.


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#12 Stevan Klaas

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 12:25 PM

Great shots, super processing ! It really gained a third dimension both in intensity and color nuances. It also fixed the very deformed stars of the out of the box image.

 

Pillars of creation are clear star creating fumes !

 

M 16

 

Image 1 Seestar Processing

 

Image 2 External Processing (Siril/GraXpert/SAS)

 

Image  3 External Processing (Siril/GraXpert/SAS)

 

 

 

Also, for Seestar users, there are two other scripts available : 1)    Seestar_Preprosessing.ssf and 2) Seestar_Preprossesing_GT2408.ssf

 

The second one is for Windows users that have more than 2048 subs.  Windows won't let you open that many files at once so you'll get a error if you run the regular script.  This scripts converts the files to a Fits sequence so you can open more that 2048 files if needed.


Edited by Stevan Klaas, 06 May 2025 - 12:34 PM.

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#13 Stevan Klaas

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 12:30 PM

I'm using those, super handy.

 

I am using now also the Drizzlex2, it's by default now in version 1.4.0 beta. It really increases detail possibilities, that deconvolution uses very well. Stars get less blocky as well, specially in S30 that is undersampled.

 

I copied the default script and just added a command to be able to process over 2048 subframes.

 

Siril Scripts.PNG

 

Drizzle x2 -fitseq.PNG

 

 

Also, for Seestar users, there are two other scripts available : 1)    Seestar_Preprosessing.ssf and 2) Seestar_Preprossesing_GT2408.ssf

 

The second one is for Windows users that have more than 2048 subs.  Windows won't let you open that many files at once so you'll get a error if you run the regular script.  This scripts converts the files to a Fits sequence so you can open more that 2048 files if needed.


Edited by Stevan Klaas, 06 May 2025 - 12:36 PM.

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#14 Stevan Klaas

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 03:22 PM

I’ll try Siril once. Actually it is exactly the same workflow I do in PI, except for the GHS and HDR Multiscale Transformation, unless “Contrast Limited Adaptive Histogram Equalization” does the same.

 

Thanks for sharing,

Stevan

 

Hello all:

 

Below is my basic workflow. 

 

Note 1: I do use slightly different ones for galaxies and star clusters.

Note 2:This is pre Siril 1.4 Beta release workflow and  2) GraXpert is the Beta version). Workflow has been tweaked slightly with these changes.

 

Workflow

 

 

In Siril, run either a regular preprocessing script or the Fit Sequence File Script or WBPP for registering and stacking.

 

Siril

 

1) Open in Linear
2) (AutoStretch)/ Image Plate Solve
3) Spectrophotometric Color Calibration
4) Crop
5) Review the image PSF and FWHM data (I'll use the FWHM later in GraXpert)
6) Back to Linear view and Save

 

GraXpert

 

1) Import saved Fits
2) Crop if I haven't already done it in Siril
3) Background Extraction
4) Object Only Deconvolution
5) Save Object Only Deconvolution and then reopen in GraXpert for Star Only Deconvolution
6) Star Only Deconvolution ( FWHM from earlier is used during deconvolution) save and reopen for denoising.
7) Denoise
8) Save

 

Siril

 

1) Import file saved GraXpert file
2) Star Processing/ Starnet Star Removal
3) Open Starless
4) Generalized Hyperbolic Stretch Transformations
5) Contrast Limited Adaptive Histogram Equalization (sometimes)
6) In the Green Channel I do a manual color calibration to make the color pop when I switch back to RGB
7) Remove Green Noise
8) Curves and/or Color Saturation
9) Save Starless

10) Open Starmask
11) GHS Transformations using Modified Arcsinh Transform
12) Color Saturation (if any)
13) Review stars and Save

14) Recomposition of Starless and Starmask ( I'll also do any final tweaks with GHS and MARCSin)
15) Final Crop of recomposition (if any)
16)  Save as PNG/JPG etc.

 


Edited by Stevan Klaas, 06 May 2025 - 03:40 PM.

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#15 Sun Tzu

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 04:12 PM

I’ll try Siril once. Actually it is exactly the same workflow I do in PI, except for the GHS and HDR Multiscale Transformation, unless “Contrast Limited Adaptive Histogram Equalization” does the same.

 

Thanks for sharing,

Stevan

 I'm the opposite.  I am in the trial period for PI right now. No harm in learning both other than cost.

 

I agree, the workflows are really similar.  In fact, I downloaded Pixinsight Workflows by Max Dobres and his other book Astrophotography Image Processing with GraXpert, Siril and Gimp and I was surprised at how similar the workflows were to each other and to what I was already doing. It's mainly just getting familiar with the layouts.  The PI user interface is a little weird at first and some of the nomenclature is a little different but over all I get it so far.

 

I've been doing HDR MTF in SAS and experimenting with some frequency separation.  Neither was included in the my workflow  listed above though. 

 

I did tweak the 2x drizzle script for 2048. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion.


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#16 Stevan Klaas

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 04:45 PM

I still haven’t adopted the GHS…seen many tutorials and tried a few times, possibilities are so many, I got lost many times.

 

For stars though I like a first half with Arcsinh to keep halos, and then normal stretch to bring to final brightness. Allows for nice softer stars of many colors.


Edited by Stevan Klaas, 06 May 2025 - 04:49 PM.

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#17 Stevan Klaas

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 04:56 PM

True. After some time you notice how practical, flexible and coherent it is, certainly a bit “monastic”.

 

Also it’s great to manipulate multiple images, masks, clones etc…

 

The new image synchronization is super cool (geometric and astrometric).

 

 The PI user interface is a little weird at first and some of the nomenclature is a little different but over all I get it so far.

 


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#18 Sun Tzu

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 05:47 PM

I still haven’t adopted the GHS…seen many tutorials and tried a few times, possibilities are so many, I got lost many times.

 

For stars though I like a first half with Arcsinh to keep halos, and then normal stretch to bring to final brightness. Allows for nice softer stars of many colors.

What I like most about GHS is how you can combine it with a specific color stretch model to set up the characteristics of your image in the initial stretch.  For Galaxies I use the human weighted model for the initial stretch and that instantly pulls out the blue and/or red galaxy colors.

 

For Star Clusters my go to is Modified Arcsinh Transform to help bring out the colors.

 

I think the statistical stretch is SAS works well. Hard to get that initial color boost with galaxies sometimes though.  More curves dependent.

 

I really enjoy experimenting.  I keep a log on my tablet as to what's working and what isn't.

 

BTW, have you ever asked one of the AI models to write a script for you in PI for anything?  I asked Gemini to write one for Siril and I was surprised at the results.  I had to tweak a few things but I was amazed at how quickly something came back.


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#19 Stevan Klaas

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Posted 06 May 2025 - 11:46 PM

Sounds good. Do you have a good tutorial for GHS for Siril ?

 

Not sure color models exist in Pixinsight version of GHS.

 

I use AI at work, but never thought about scripts in PI.

 

What I like most about GHS is how you can combine it with a specific color stretch model to set up the characteristics of your image in the initial stretch.  For Galaxies I use the human weighted model for the initial stretch and that instantly pulls out the blue and/or red galaxy colors.

 

For Star Clusters my go to is Modified Arcsinh Transform to help bring out the colors.

 

I think the statistical stretch is SAS works well. Hard to get that initial color boost with galaxies sometimes though.  More curves dependent.

 

I really enjoy experimenting.  I keep a log on my tablet as to what's working and what isn't.

 

BTW, have you ever asked one of the AI models to write a script for you in PI for anything?  I asked Gemini to write one for Siril and I was surprised at the results.  I had to tweak a few things but I was amazed at how quickly something came back.

 


Edited by Stevan Klaas, 06 May 2025 - 11:51 PM.

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#20 buramu

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Posted 07 May 2025 - 01:37 AM

Has anyone compared the new GraXpert Star deconvolution to the Siril built-in deconvolution?

 

The GraXpert one is generally pretty good, but it doesn't handle bright red stars too well - especially when you intend to use Starnet later in the process. 

 

I'd love to use BlurXterminator, but I'm not ready to invest in PI at this point.


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#21 tarbat

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Posted 07 May 2025 - 04:26 AM

Has anyone compared the new GraXpert Star deconvolution to the Siril built-in deconvolution?

I find the Cosmic Clarity deconvolution in Siril v1.4-beta1 works really well, and a lot better than the Siril built-in deconvolution.

 

1.jpg

 

This is my workflow in Siril v1.4-beta1. Works for normal as well as mosaics. Uses Bayer Drizzle, GraXpert and Cosmic Clarity.

Siril process.jpg

 

Demonstrated in my video at:

https://youtu.be/rqJR8tl7iuY


Edited by tarbat, 07 May 2025 - 04:47 AM.

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#22 Sun Tzu

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Posted 07 May 2025 - 06:56 AM

I find the Cosmic Clarity deconvolution in Siril v1.4-beta1 works really well, and a lot better than the Siril built-in deconvolution.

 

attachicon.gif 1.jpg

 

This is my workflow in Siril v1.4-beta1. Works for normal as well as mosaics. Uses Bayer Drizzle, GraXpert and Cosmic Clarity.

attachicon.gif Siril process.jpg

 

Demonstrated in my video at:

https://youtu.be/rqJR8tl7iuY

 I have used Cosmic Clarity within Seti Astro Suite (SAS) and was generally pleased with the results. I'm consolidating my workflows now that Siril 1.4-beta1 is available as I've been moving between Siril, GraXpert and SAS.


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#23 Sun Tzu

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Posted 07 May 2025 - 07:13 AM

Sounds good. Do you have a good tutorial for GHS for Siril ?

 

Not sure color models exist in Pixinsight version of GHS.

 

I use AI at work, but never thought about scripts in PI.

1) AI Scripts

 

I hadn't considered it either until I Space Koala mentioned using AI for assistance with some of her PI scripts.  I don't remember if she mentions it in the video itself or in her response to one of the comments to the video.

 

https://youtu.be/Wm2...?feature=shared

 

2) GHS

 

The two videos below along with the Siril manual are what got me started:

 

https://youtu.be/MXb...?feature=shared

 

https://youtu.be/LCU...?feature=shared


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#24 scanner97

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  • Posts: 1,183
  • Joined: 09 Aug 2024
  • Loc: New Hampshire

Posted 07 May 2025 - 07:38 AM

I was going to recommend Deep Space Astro.  Rich has a lot of experience with Siril and his videos are very down to earth.  The GHS video is your second GHS link above, but he has a lot of other stuff on specific stuff, including just getting up and running for someone who is totally new to this.  (Which I'm sure a few smartscope users will be.)

 

And, yes, for someone who is spending $5 to 10k on an AP rig, the cost of PixInsight is not a big deal.  But for someone who is starting on a budget, either with an existing DSLR or a Seestar/Dwarf, the freeware is an amazing option and absolutely the way to get going.

 

Kudos to everyone contributing here.


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#25 Sun Tzu

Sun Tzu

    Explorer 1

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  • Posts: 77
  • Joined: 15 Mar 2024
  • Loc: SW FL

Posted 07 May 2025 - 09:59 AM

I was going to recommend Deep Space Astro.  Rich has a lot of experience with Siril and his videos are very down to earth.  The GHS video is your second GHS link above, but he has a lot of other stuff on specific stuff, including just getting up and running for someone who is totally new to this.  (Which I'm sure a few smartscope users will be.)

 

And, yes, for someone who is spending $5 to 10k on an AP rig, the cost of PixInsight is not a big deal.  But for someone who is starting on a budget, either with an existing DSLR or a Seestar/Dwarf, the freeware is an amazing option and absolutely the way to get going.

 

Kudos to everyone contributing here.

Rich and Deep Space Astro have   been my go-to channel for Siril. I really appreciate the work he and Frank at Seti Astro are doing.


  • Stevan Klaas, lsjones and scanner97 like this


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