58 replies to this topic

[CHASLX200]

9tgowo.jpg

Good luck fighting the shipper for that when they use everything in the book not to pay out. I spent 6k in a law suit for that pellet gun.

[jragsdale]

Pellet gun! Bingo!

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[CHASLX200]

It would cost as much as the mount to have it shipped over seas with all the piers it comes with.

[jragsdale]

It would cost as much as the mount to have it shipped over seas with all the piers it comes with.

Maybe $1k freight LCL via ocean freight. Plus the crating cost.

[Richard Low]

It would cost as much as the mount to have it shipped over seas with all the piers it comes with.

 

Hi Chas,

 

I appreciate that you even considered a thought on this.

 

i think even with UPS door to door service, it may be a hassle for anyone to pack the mount.

 

I even thought of having the AP900 sent ground shipping to the AP folks to strip off the electronic parts and service the mount before it ship to me.

 

I would prefer for the AP 6" f/12 ota on a AP900 bare-bones with just RA motor and nothing else. No encoders. GoTo, APCC and such electronic stuff. Maybe adding slow-motion knobs would be a really nice touch but I'm happy with just the AP900 manual dual-clutch. Seems only a few visual guys like me (and maybe Chas) do like this type of simple tracking mount. Just a dream for now

Edited by Richard Low, 09 May 2025 - 11:08 PM.

[The Ardent]

AP 900 QMD showing RA axis placed first on pier then DEC. This is my second 900 found on Astromart. 

 

Losmandy pier was 10 years ago. This was my first 900 that I sold because I was laid off from work when the company went bankrupt . This night I used mount without power. Simple visual . 

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[CHASLX200]

Hi Chas,

 

I appreciate that you even considered a thought on this.

 

i think even with UPS door to door service, it may be a hassle for anyone to pack the mount.

 

I even thought of having the AP900 sent ground shipping to the AP folks to strip off the electronic parts and service the mount before it ship to me.

 

I would prefer for the AP 6" f/12 ota on a AP900 bare-bones with just RA motor and nothing else. No encoders. GoTo, APCC and such electronic stuff. Maybe adding slow-motion knobs would be a really nice touch but I'm happy with just the AP900 manual dual-clutch. Seems only a few visual guys like me (and maybe Chas) do like this type of simple tracking mount. Just a dream for now

You can just remove the motors on mine.  It is super smooth to hand move at 450x and up.

[bobhen]

Always wanted one of them blue deals. I was never hot over my 7 G11's so i wonder if it is any better.

I had a G11 after the GM-100. As far as load capacity and zero backlash the GM-100 was the better more robust mount. But the GM-100 could not be made into a goto mount, hence the G11. My GM-100 held my AP 6" F9 easily.

 

Here is what fellow CN member Jeff B wrote...

 

"I just sold mine to a gent in the mid-west.  What a great mount and it held many scopes well, C11, C14, TEC8, ...and was especially the part with my vintage AP 7"F9.

 

"Just a solid mount, great tracker, looks really cool, with no issues at all in the 10 years I had it."

 

The image is the Losmandy GM-100 with Jeff B's AP 7" F9 riding on top.

 

Bob

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[CHASLX200]

I had a G11 after the GM-100. As far as load capacity and zero backlash the GM-100 was the better more robust mount. But the GM-100 could not be made into a goto mount, hence the G11. My GM-100 held my AP 6" F9 easily.

 

Here is what fellow CN member Jeff B wrote...

 

"I just sold mine to a gent in the mid-west.  What a great mount and it held many scopes well, C11, C14, TEC8, ...and was especially the part with my vintage AP 7"F9.

 

"Just a solid mount, great tracker, looks really cool, with no issues at all in the 10 years I had it."

 

The image is the Losmandy GM-100 with Jeff B's AP 7" F9 riding on top.

 

Bob

I sure want that blue deal as that is on my never had list.

[Richard Low]

A lot of good suggestions here - I used a Losmandy g11 as well as an ap 900 qmd for mine - and I even used a Discmount dm6 with a Losmandy hd tripod - worked fine and was all very portable. Even a T-Rex alt az would handle it fine. A little wiggle so use as long of a plate as you can get - 16” or 24”. I used a telrad finder for mine. 

 

Hi all, thank you for your continued invaluable feedback and suggestions. I'm still searching and following leads but have not finalise on the mount.

 

Talking about supporting a 1.8m long refractor OTA, what would be the optimum tube ring spacing to minimise vibrations of the ends? Could anyone advise please?

 

I have an idea to place 2 pairs of tube rings/losmandy dovetail plates and use a longer saddle to clamp the two losmandy plates. I think that this stiffens the whole OTA and reduces the cantilevered ends so the vibration will have less amplitude and dampen out faster. Has anyone tried this? Can anyone comment whether this is feasible or practical?

[CHASLX200]

Hi all, thank you for your continued invaluable feedback and suggestions. I'm still searching and following leads but have not finalise on the mount.

 

Talking about supporting a 1.8m long refractor OTA, what would be the optimum tube ring spacing to minimise vibrations of the ends? Could anyone advise please?

 

I have an idea to place 2 pairs of tube rings/losmandy dovetail plates and use a longer saddle to clamp the two losmandy plates. I think that this stiffens the whole OTA and reduces the cantilevered ends so the vibration will have less amplitude and dampen out faster. Has anyone tried this? Can anyone comment whether this is feasible or practical?

I would look for a old gray NJP-160. None over here but should be some close to you.

[Richard Low]

I would look for a old gray NJP-160. None over here but should be some close to you.

 

Thanks Chas. Yes I'm looking for Takahashi old mounts too. I've seen an old Tak 160P in action and that could work for the AP 6" f/12 OTA. I've asked Tak suppliers why the Tak new mounts are all not available currently, apparently there are some components having supply shortages.

[Defenderslideguitar]

I have the 1991 AP 6 inch Starfire   F12 as well   Awesome planetary scope.   I have the AP800 mount and pier  that came with it and it is just hard for me to set up alone   so I do not do it.............. I have used the DM6  on a big heavy duty Tak tripod and it works for visual.  Just a moment to settle though   it does not like windy evenings that much. With higher power the lack of tracking can be frustrating      Obviously, the original AP 800 is best for it but unless I get to move and build an observatory   I cannot see using the AP 800 mount   Here it is at NEAF 

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[Richard Low]

I have the 1991 AP 6 inch Starfire   F12 as well   Awesome planetary scope.   I have the AP800 mount and pier  that came with it and it is just hard for me to set up alone   so I do not do it.............. I have used the DM6  on a big heavy duty Tak tripod and it works for visual.  Just a moment to settle though   it does not like windy evenings that much. With higher power the lack of tracking can be frustrating      Obviously, the original AP 800 is best for it but unless I get to move and build an observatory   I cannot see using the AP 800 mount   Here it is at NEAF 

 

Thank you for your feedback and awesome photo. So the AP 6" f/12 did originally sit on the AP800 mount and AP 8" Portable Pier. And I should have bought a DM6 before Discmount business closed last year, so now I can only search for used DM6 for better portability.

 

I'm very thankful that a very kind CN member has step forward and offered to sell his 30 year old AP800 and willing to ship over. So I'm arranging for AP to service  this AP800 prior to shipping it over to me. I hope this works out well.

 

I noticed the AP finder is missing in the photo, just like on mine too. I may be pushing my luck to find an original AP finder and finder bracket, to restore as a classic scope. One key purpose is to use this scope for outreach so others get to observe the awesome planetary views, and tracking is needed to keep the vibrations to the minimum. I also noticed my AP dew shield seems shorter and without the AP decal. Thank you.

Edited by Richard Low, 11 May 2025 - 01:23 PM.

[RichA]

It would cost as much as the mount to have it shipped over seas with all the piers it comes with.

I did ship a 1000lb laser to Japan for about $400.00. However, that was on a skid meaning no people having to lift and carry it.  I did have a guitar broken in half though.  Anything long and fragile like a refractor should go in a real case and not just a cardboard box.

[CHASLX200]

I did ship a 1000lb laser to Japan for about $400.00. However, that was on a skid meaning no people having to lift and carry it.  I did have a guitar broken in half though.  Anything long and fragile like a refractor should go in a real case and not just a cardboard box.

UPS breaks pellet guns in half.

[jragsdale]

After the broken $1200 pellet gun i am scared 2 death to ship anything let alone over seas.

 

I spent 6k in a law suit for that pellet gun.

 

UPS breaks pellet guns in half.

 

I think we understand about what happened to the pellet gun Chas, no need to spam about it. Also; you said you shipped tons of stuff before the pellet gun with no issues. 1 out of a 1000 shipments is actually a really good damage ratio. The industry average currently sits at about 1 in 10 (10%) of packages received are damaged, so consider yourself VERY lucky.

[Richard Low]

Defenderslideguitar, on 11 May 2025 - 10:04 PM, said:

I have the 1991 AP 6 inch Starfire F12 as well Awesome planetary scope. I have the AP800 mount and pier that came with it and it is just hard for me to set up alone so I do not do it.............. I have used the DM6 on a big heavy duty Tak tripod and it works for visual. Just a moment to settle though it does not like windy evenings that much. With higher power the lack of tracking can be frustrating Obviously, the original AP 800 is best for it but unless I get to move and build an observatory I cannot see using the AP 800 mount Here it is at NEAF

Ok guys, he does have a good point on DM6. I may need to maybe consider a more portable 2nd solution. Maybe the iOptron HAE69Cvwhich has tracking and takes up to 30kg without a counterweight. What do you guys think?

[CHASLX200]

I think we understand about what happened to the pellet gun Chas, no need to spam about it. Also; you said you shipped tons of stuff before the pellet gun with no issues. 1 out of a 1000 shipments is actually a really good damage ratio. The industry average currently sits at about 1 in 10 (10%) of packages received are damaged, so consider yourself VERY lucky.

I say one out of 40k boxes. I just flat out got burned out on shipping stuff and when prices went thru the roof in 05 i said no more. I hate dealing with peeps anymore. I lived for the next deal and got kicked out of my astronomy club due to dealing and turning meetings and star parties into swap meets. Then when i put marsh mallow in a strap mount 10" F/5 Cave that was it.   When i got heart broken at my first start party in 1977 seeing and using real scopes like a C5 and 14 it made me hate my 60mm and i swore to myself at age 14 i would have it all one day and by God i have come close.  Now i am wore out and pretty much had it all and slowing wayyyyyyyyy down.  Also the AP800 is very light and i can carry with whole mount and pier with weights.  It breaks down in 2 main parts.

Edited by CHASLX200, 12 May 2025 - 06:01 PM.

[Richard Low]

I say one out of 40k boxes. I just flat out got burned out on shipping stuff and when prices went thru the roof in 05 i said no more. I hate dealing with peeps anymore. I lived for the next deal and got kicked out of my astronomy club due to dealing and turning meetings and star parties into swap meets. Then when i put marsh mallow in a strap mount 10" F/5 Cave that was it.   When i got heart broken at my first start party in 1977 seeing and using real scopes like a C5 and 14 it made me hate my 60mm and i swore to myself at age 14 i would have it all one day and by God i have come close.  Now i am wore out and pretty much had it all and slowing wayyyyyyyyy down.  Also the AP800 is very light and i can carry with whole mount and pier with weights.  It breaks down in 2 main parts.

 

Hi Chas and all

 

Thank you for your feedback. I've checked that the AP800 mount head weighs 20.5 kg, same as my 22" f/4.1 primary mirror which is 1.6" thick. Good that it breaks into separate DEC and RA portions. I'm looking at having 2 options, the AP800 and a more portable setup.

 

For example, my AP130GT with DM4-type of AZ mount is shown below at a sidewalk astronomy event. The 2 Norwegian tourists were enthralled with the views of Jupiter. This is a portable setup that I'm able to carry everything by myself on the MRT train and public bus. The AP 6" f/12 would obviously not be as portable though.

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[RalphMeisterTigerMan]

Have you thought about the Losmany systems? An observing buddy of mine has his C11 system on one of their heavy duty systems and it works great!

 

BTW, what are Lunar and Planetary views thru that "bad boy". Must be nice.I almost purchased the 7-inch F/9 Start Fire back in the day...almost! 

 

Clear skies and keep looking up!

RalphMeisterTigerMan

[Richard Low]

Have you thought about the Losmany systems? An observing buddy of mine has his C11 system on one of their heavy duty systems and it works great!

 

BTW, what are Lunar and Planetary views thru that "bad boy". Must be nice.I almost purchased the 7-inch F/9 Start Fire back in the day...almost! 

 

Clear skies and keep looking up!

RalphMeisterTigerMan

Hi, I used to have the G11 mount on Losmandy HD tripod. I do like the slip-clutches which are useful for star-hopping. I think the AP800 or AP900 would be more sturdy though.

 

In the 2000s, my observing friend invited me one night to his house observatory. Although he is older than me, we both have common interests being astute visual observers with interest in long refractors. That night i encountered his AP 6" f/12 for the first time and it was aimed at Saturn at 600x magnification. The view was astounding and unforgettable. Saturn look similar to the Vovager photos. Saturn was etching sharp and very still. Maybe every 10 seconds I see a micro seeing turbulence effect "like a pebble drop into a still pond" rippling effect but otherwise the atmospheric seeing was excellent and yhe view is very motionless. Colours were saturated in different hues and tones. The rings were clearly striated like an old vinyl record. I could easily see both edges of Encke Division across the whole ring. I attempted to detect Keeler Gap and the Ring B spokes but was unsuccessful. 

 

Up to that time I was only using SCTs, so I starting craving for a 6" apochromat. And i signed up for AP 160 apo in Oct 2009. I didn't sign up for the rest of the waiting lists. Only later did I realised that waiting for AP 6" apo could be fruitless. (I just called AP Daleen about 12 hours ago, she said my name is still on the notification list for AP155CS but... she suggest I may call her back "in a few years time" when my email is going to be notified.) Then another friend offered to sell me a 6 inch f/8 lens cell by LZOS. I made the 6" refractor but it didn't give the same planetary view as the AP 6" f/12.

 

Another friend offered to compare my 6" apo with his AP EDT 155 f/9, so I flew over with my 6" apo from Singapore to Bangkok, and he brought us to a 4-night star party under pristine sky in a national park. The sky and surroundings were so dark that when the Milky Way rises, it cast shadows on my star charts. They sky was so clear that when Pleiades was at zenith, I could count 11 stars in this cluster (my wife counted 13 stars!) I could see the subtle difference between AP oil-spaced lens and the LZOS air-spaced lens (everyone else says both views look the same) but both didn't match the planetary performance of the AP 6" f/12.

 

Both LZOS 6" f/8 and AP155 f/9 were mounted in tandem on a G11 mount and Losmandy HD tripod, there was vibrations but just barely tolerable.

Edited by Richard Low, 12 May 2025 - 11:58 PM.

[CHASLX200]

Hi, I used to have the G11 mount on Losmandy HD tripod. I do like the slip-clutches which are useful for star-hopping. I think the AP800 or AP900 would be more sturdy though.

 

In the 2000s, my observing friend invited me one night to his house observatory. Although he is older than me, we both have common interests being astute visual observers with interest in long refractors. That night i encountered his AP 6" f/12 for the first time and it was aimed at Saturn at 600x magnification. The view was astounding and unforgettable. Saturn look similar to the Vovager photos. Saturn was etching sharp and very still. Maybe every 10 seconds I see a micro seeing turbulence effect "like a pebble drop into a still pond" rippling effect but otherwise the atmospheric seeing was excellent and yhe view is very motionless. Colours were saturated in different hues and tones. The rings were clearly striated like an old vinyl record. I could easily see both edges of Encke Division across the whole ring. I attempted to detect Keeler Gap and the Ring B spokes but was unsuccessful. 

 

Up to that time I was only using SCTs, so I starting craving for a 6" apochromat. And i signed up for AP 160 apo in Oct 2009. I didn't sign up for the rest of the waiting lists. Only later did I realised that waiting for AP 6" apo could be fruitless. (I just called AP Daleen about 12 hours ago, she said my name is still on the notification list for AP155CS but... she suggest I may call her back "in a few years time" when my email is going to be notified.) Then another friend offered to sell me a 6 inch f/8 lens cell by LZOS. I made the 6" refractor but it didn't give the same planetary view as the AP 6" f/12.

 

Another friend offered to compare my 6" apo with his AP EDT 155 f/9, so I flew over with my 6" apo from Singapore to Bangkok, and he brought us to a 4-night star party under pristine sky in a national park. The sky and surroundings were so dark that when the Milky Way rises, it cast shadows on my star charts. They sky was so clear that when Pleiades was at zenith, I could count 11 stars in this cluster (my wife counted 13 stars!) I could see the subtle difference between AP oil-spaced lens and the LZOS air-spaced lens (everyone else says both views look the same) but both didn't match the planetary performance of the AP 6" f/12.

 

Both LZOS 6" f/8 and AP155 f/9 were mounted in tandem on a G11 mount and Losmandy HD tripod, there was vibrations but just barely tolerable.

My AP800 was 10 times better than all my G11's and has SLO- MO's.  A long 6" is too much for a G11.

[Richard Low]

My AP800 was 10 times better than all my G11's and has SLO- MO's.  A long 6" is too much for a G11.

 

From what I see and read of the AP800, yes I agree it is better than G11. How many times is debatable.

 

Tonight I had the chance to try a 12 inch SCT on the Rowan AZ100. Personally I feel the AZ100 is just do-able but not sturdy enough for the 12" SCT OTA about 16kg. It is also quite sensitive to balancing. Should be fine for smaller OTAs though. 

 

What I would prefer is an up-sized AZ150 with 6" bearings on both axis like the DM6 with slow motion knobs.

Edited by Richard Low, 13 May 2025 - 10:57 AM.

[CHASLX200]

800 is so smooth i can hand center planets at 450x easy.