30 replies to this topic

[Majeskty]

Hello to all!

 

As per another of my posting. I am considering a couple new eyepieces for my Celestron Nexstar 8i XLT SCT, F10 to ehance my experiences. My model of Nexstar does NOT have a rail to move the Optical Tube of the SCT forward to give the Diagonal/eyepiece room to clear the bottom of the base it is a fixed arm. 

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Been looking a bit more at the Baader Morpheus lineup (more costly than Hyperhion's, but hey cry now or later when disappointed ???). 

 

Do any of the 2" diagonals have any issues with length of the Baader's and bottoming out on the mirror or prism and to avoid those brands?

 

I thought to ask instead of trial and error, thus casusing some frustrations/disappointments. Trying to get it right the first time and these forums do help with the assistance from everyone.  

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On my other post I had a response suggesting the use of using a Focal Reducer on the 2" backing of my SCT. So I am a bit more up to speed on the usage of such. I have found cheap and moderally priced one's online.

 

Do a brand name offer better results for the Focal Reduer's, than just he cheaper knock off's?

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I have found plentyful number of 2" diagonal's using mirrors and just a few prism models.

 

What is the recommendation/advise from the more experienced StarGazers?

 

(Currently I have my original 1.25 inch diagonals from Celestron 1) Star, 2) Erect image, Seems I use the Erect image model a bit more to get my telescope to move in the right direction when using the controller.)

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Lot to sort through on my inquiry!

Thanks to those who reply!

Edited by Majeskty, 09 May 2025 - 02:47 PM.

[cbowlsby]

Worth a thought, for the Morpheus line it’s usually best from a focal perspective to treat them as 1.25” eyepieces. You don’t need a 2” diagonal or visual back for them although it’s a nice to have and essential for other eyepieces.

Edited by cbowlsby, 09 May 2025 - 05:01 PM.

[PKDfan]

Hi Majeskty !

I don't have that OTA but do have BBHS 2" mirror and same sized Everbrite and stock SkyWatcher 2" diag. and none have an issue with hitting the mirror with any of my Morpheus eyepieces, either used as 1 1/4" or 2" configuration.

Neither do they have an issue with my Celestron 1 1/4" prism.


I changed diags only after three years of dealing with off-axis scatter from a stock dielectric.

My new diags don't suffer from that 'aberration' and i use the BBHS mirror exclusively.
Its slightly brighter than the excellent Everbrite and has the clicklock feature rather than a compression ring.

Expensive but worth every penny either way you go. TV Everbrite is about 100grams heavier than Baader diag. though.

I only have the three shortest Morphii but i like either the 12.5(12.4) or 14(13.9)Morpheus for you giving about ~145X or ~167X.


Good hunting with your new purchases !


CSS
Lance

[Migwan]

Hello to all!

 

As per another of my posting. I am considering a couple new eyepieces for my Celestron Nexstar 8i XLT SCT, F10 to ehance my experiences. My model of Nexstar does NOT have a rail to move the Optical Tube of the SCT forward to give the Diagonal/eyepiece room to clear the bottom of the base it is a fixed arm. 

_____________________________

 

Been looking a bit more at the Baader Morpheus lineup (more costly than Hyperhion's, but hey cry now or later when disappointed ???). 

 

Do any of the 2" diagonals have any issues with length of the Baader's and bottoming out on the mirror or prism and to avoid those brands?

 

I thought to ask instead of trial and error, thus casusing some frustrations/disappointments. Trying to get it right the first time and these forums do help with the assistance from everyone.  

 ________________________

 

On my other post I had a response suggesting the use of using a Focal Reducer on the 2" backing of my SCT. So I am a bit more up to speed on the usage of such. I have found cheap and moderally priced one's online.

 

Do a brand name offer better results for the Focal Reduer's, than just he cheaper knock off's?

_______________________

 

I have found plentyful number of 2" diagonal's using mirrors and just a few prism models.

 

What is the recommendation/advise from the more experienced StarGazers?

 

(Currently I have my original 1.25 inch diagonals from Celestron 1) Star, 2) Erect image, Seems I use the Erect image model a bit more to get my telescope to move in the right direction when using the controller.)

_________________________

 

Lot to sort through on my inquiry!

Thanks to those who reply!

I've not had a Morph strike a mirror on any of my 2" WO diagonals. They work great with 1.25" diagonals, too.   If your going to use a reducer then you might want to stick with a 1'.25" diagonal to keep the focal length of the diagonal  down to the optimal 05mm. You can set up 2" diagonal to have that short a fl, but it's tricky and expensive.  There are threads regarding doing so.  Enjoy the morph and NextStar.  That'd just happen to be  a great combo!

 

 

[Starman1]

1. use the Morpheus eyepieces as 1.25". They'll focus closer to other eyepieces.
2. Using them as 2" is impossible with a prism diagonal.
3. They'll work great in an SCT.

[Procyon]

I believe I may have had clearance issues when looking at zenith with my old Edge 8 SCT on a Nexstar SE mount when using a focal reducer and a 2" Baader Clicklock diagonal. I remember having to buy a rail to push the OTA more upwards.

I think the rail helped and allowed me to use the focal reducer with the 2" diagonal, but may have had some balance issues afterwards. I can't remember very good, it was almost 10 years ago.

Do a search for clearance issues with 2" diagonals and focal reducers if you plan on getting both. I sold everything aftewards and got a CPC 1100, this mount allows for a lot more clearance.

Definitely get a 17.5mm Morpheus over the Hyperion. All you need is a 1.25" diagonal afterwards.

I think most focal reducers should be as good as the Celestron one, but do a search on that too to be sure.

PS> I would use either a focal refucer and 1.25" diagonal, or a 2" Diagonal on it's own to be sure. But not a 2" diagonal and focal reducer together. There may not be enough clearance at zenith to fit both. Unless you get a rail, but than you *may* start having frustrating balance issues.

 

PS2> Here, I found this link that may help: (I was using an Edge focal reducer, which I believe are longer, so you may want to research the first link, but there's hundreds of threads for this issue, it's very common).

 

https://www.cloudyni...-an-edgehd-800/

 

Check this one out too, I was using using a focal reducer with binoviewers and was awaiting a rail from ADM. Kinda funny reading your old posts... https://www.cloudyni...-an-edge-8-sct/

Edited by Procyon, 09 May 2025 - 08:46 PM.

[SeattleScott]

Adding a 2” diagonal and focal reducer is going to add considerable length and likely cause clearance issues. Also, using 2” eyepieces with a focal reducer generally isn’t recommended, due to excessive vignetting, as well as spherical abberation, loss of effective aperture, loss of planetary contrast from the reducer adding glass to the light path, etc. It can be an interesting experiment, but most ultimately choose one or the other.

You can use Morpheus with a 2” mirror diagonal, just don’t go screwing a barlow nosepiece on it, or stacking filters. But yeah, it really changes the focus point, and focusing is more annoying with a SCT than a reflector or refractor. So I would likely just use them as 1.25”, especially if you have other 1.25” eyepieces to mix in. Now if you don’t have other 1.25” eyepieces to mix in, and you find a 2” eyepiece that focuses at around the same point as the Morpheus with 2” barrel, then by all means. But I wouldn’t specifically get Morpheus for the 2” barrel with the assumption of using them in 2” format. Now they are fine eyepieces and a good value whether you use the 2” barrel or not, and the 2” barrel could be more useful with another scope (especially a newt). So maybe you get Morpheus anyway, but don’t be disappointed if you don’t end up using the 2” barrel.

[PJBilotta]

As others have mentioned, the Morphs are all really just 1.25" eyepieces. The 2" section of the barrel is a neat feature, however using it requires significant refocusing compared to other eyepieces (including most 2-inchers), and also riskes hitting your diagonal mirror or prism.

The 2" barrel is convenient in a Newt, where you don't use a diagonal and can quickly and easily refocus. For other scopes, it's really better to use them as 1.25's with an adapter.

[T1R2]

The Celestron 1.25" prism has a safety lip near the bottom of the EP holder. JFYI

[SeattleScott]

The Celestron 1.25" prism has a safety lip near the bottom of the EP holder. JFYI

I think the concern is more with a 2” prism, but valid point.

[ABQJeff]

2. Using them as 2" is impossible with a prism diagonal.
.

Don, may I ask why you say that?

I use my Baader Morpheus in 2” mode all the time with my APM and Baader Amici prisms without issue.

[SeattleScott]

Don, may I ask why you say that?

I use my Baader Morpheus in 2” mode all the time with my APM and Baader Amici prisms without issue.

I think he is saying the 1.25” barrel would strike the prism, which logically makes sense. But it is conceivable there is enough clearance, at least as long as one doesn’t start screwing filters on the 1.25” barrel. Are you confirming that inserting the Morpheus into a 2” prism diagonal, using the 2” barrel on the Morpheus, won’t cause the 1.25” barrel of the Morpheus to strike the prism?

I have LVWs which are a similar style, and remember being surprised when I checked clearance and saw that not only did the 1.25” barrel not strike the mirror, but it didn’t even protrude into the diagonal body. But I also have parfocal rings on my LVWs that raise them 6mm (for focus reasons, not diagonal clearance issues). So I wouldn’t automatically assume it would be safe for other LVW users, or Morpheus which are a similar style, but not identical.

[ABQJeff]

OP: the Baader Morpheus work fine as 1.25” or 2”, pick which ever best fits in your system.

If you use a 0.63 reducer I would stick with 1.25” diagonal and eyepieces. Morpheus line, ES24-68, 32 and 40mm Plossls (for max exit pupil) would be a great compact line up.

If you go a full 2” reducer (like something from starizona) note the baffle on the standard C8 is 37mm so you will start to get vignetting in the biggest 2” eyepieces (those with field stop >> 37mm). So a 30mm UFF, AT 28mm UWA, 35mm Pan are your max field of view eyepieces without noticeable vignetting. You could probably get away with an ES82-30 or TV 31 Nagler as well.

[ABQJeff]

I think he is saying the 1.25” barrel would strike the prism, which logically makes sense. But it is conceivable there is enough clearance, at least as long as one doesn’t start screwing filters on the 1.25” barrel. Are you confirming that inserting the Morpheus into a 2” prism diagonal, using the 2” barrel on the Morpheus, won’t cause the 1.25” barrel of the Morpheus to strike the prism?

I have LVWs which are a similar style, and remember being surprised when I checked clearance and saw that not only did the 1.25” barrel not strike the mirror, but it didn’t even protrude into the diagonal body. But I also have parfocal rings on my LVWs that raise them 6mm (for focus reasons, not diagonal clearance issues). So I wouldn’t automatically assume it would be safe for other LVW users, or Morpheus which are a similar style, but not identical.

Yes I am confirming the Morpheus have no problems with my APM or Baader 2” prisms.  It is not even close to bottoming out.  The Morpheus is 45mm from shoulder safety catch to bottom of 1.25” nose.  That is within a couple millimeters of standard 2” eyepieces.  

 

Here is a photo of a 12.5mm Morpheus vs Pentax 40XW aligning the two shoulder catches.  You will see the Morpheus is only a couple millimeters longer.

 

For grins and giggles I even put on a 1.25” filter and it still didn’t bottom out in either diagonal.  It went all the way in to the shoulder catch.

[Starman1]

Don, may I ask why you say that?

I use my Baader Morpheus in 2” mode all the time with my APM and Baader Amici prisms without issue.

Used as a 2", the Morpheus 1.25" barrel will strike many prisms, and even comes close with many mirror diagonals.

It depends on the length of the eyepiece tube in the diagonal, of course.

Many years ago I encountered that problem with a 2" prism and Tele Vue 1.25" eyepieces with a 2" skirt, and with a Lumicon diagonal and the same dual-sized eyepieces.

I'm glad yours clear, but I wouldn't take it for granted without measuring.

[T1R2]

I think the concern is more with a 2” prism, but valid point.

Yes, but it in post #3 PKDfan stated that he didn't have a problem with using them with that prism, and I was reiterating why that is. 

[Majeskty]

I've not had a Morph strike a mirror on any of my 2" WO diagonals. They work great with 1.25" diagonals, too.   If your going to use a reducer then you might want to stick with a 1'.25" diagonal to keep the focal length of the diagonal  down to the optimal 05mm. You can set up 2" diagonal to have that short a fl, but it's tricky and expensive.  There are threads regarding doing so.  Enjoy the morph and NextStar.  That'd just happen to be  a great combo!

Thank you for your expertise and experiences.

Great to know about the depth of the Baader Eyepieces with a 2” diagonal.

Yeah, doing the research on converting to a 2” Diagonal maybe too much all at once with the expense. Maybe the eyepieces and see how it goes with my old NexStar 8i with XLT coating. I did have it out with the grandkids last night and they thought the Moon was very cool up close. Wish I could have Sky Aligned with 3 objects correctly to catch Mars, but the controller was good for manual adjustments with just the Moon this time around. Even with the 32mm Plossi from the Celestron Kit was a clear image, just not much FOV and my eyeglasses. Which is one of the main reason’s looking at the various Eyepieces for better eye relief and FOV newer ones have available. Reviews from others the Morpheus Eyepieces is a very nice choice should I go that route over the Hyperion’s. I still need to figure out which MM of eyepieces to go with as choices, two at the most this round and keep the magnification good for my location in Eastern Nebraska for sky’s, humidity etc..

Wish there was an actual store to view such, however in today’s online environment it is what it is and this forum really, really helps!

 

Thank’s to you Migwan and to all who have continued my research and expanding my learning process in replying.

[Majeskty]

1. use the Morpheus eyepieces as 1.25". They'll focus closer to other eyepieces.
2. Using them as 2" is impossible with a prism diagonal.
3. They'll work great in an SCT.

Good to know, thanks for sharing!

[Migwan]

Thank you for your expertise and experiences.

Great to know about the depth of the Baader Eyepieces with a 2” diagonal.

Yeah, doing the research on converting to a 2” Diagonal maybe too much all at once with the expense. Maybe the eyepieces and see how it goes with my old NexStar 8i with XLT coating. I did have it out with the grandkids last night and they thought the Moon was very cool up close. Wish I could have Sky Aligned with 3 objects correctly to catch Mars, but the controller was good for manual adjustments with just the Moon this time around. Even with the 32mm Plossi from the Celestron Kit was a clear image, just not much FOV and my eyeglasses. Which is one of the main reason’s looking at the various Eyepieces for better eye relief and FOV newer ones have available. Reviews from others the Morpheus Eyepieces is a very nice choice should I go that route over the Hyperion’s. I still need to figure out which MM of eyepieces to go with as choices, two at the most this round and keep the magnification good for my location in Eastern Nebraska for sky’s, humidity etc..

Wish there was an actual store to view such, however in today’s online environment it is what it is and this forum really, really helps!

 

Thank’s to you Migwan and to all who have continued my research and expanding my learning process in replying.

I missed that you had a prism diagonal.  My diagonals are mirror diagonals.  As Don mentioned, better use the morphs with a 1.25" adapter .  Still, the morphs are comfy and very good eyepieces.  Enjoy.

[Majeskty]

I missed that you had a prism diagonal.  My diagonals are mirror diagonals.  As Don mentioned, better use the morphs with a 1.25" adapter .  Still, the morphs are comfy and very good eyepieces.  Enjoy.

I do have my original Celestron brand 1.25" 'Star' Diagonal not sure how good it holds up to todays coating etc., it is as old as my Nexstar 8i XLT at 20+ years.

 

Maybe you can address the weight of Morpheus or Hyperion eyepieces? They will be pretty heffty compared to my current Plossi's. My biggest concern is whether the 1.25' Diagonal for a SCT is sturdy enough or is the 2" diagonals a better option with a 1.25" adapter and not stress the connections.

Thank You!

[cbowlsby]

The Morpheus are actually pretty light as far as premium eyepieces go, but I do recommend that you use a 2” diagonal for a more secure connection, the ability to use other 2” eyepieces and probably better quality.

Edited by cbowlsby, 14 May 2025 - 12:34 PM.

[Majeskty]

The Morpheus are actually pretty light as far as premium eyepieces go, but I do recommend that you use a 2” diagonal for a more secure connection, the ability to use other 2” eyepieces and probably better quality.

Thanks for that input!

 

The Baader 2" Diagonal is pretty expensive. Been looking at the SVBONY 2" Diagonal Mirror Diagonal at half the price, plus it includes a 1.25" adapter. This version also has what appears to be a short twist locking compression ring for both the 2" and the 1.25" option. So many similar options out there in addition to the SVBONY and comes down to some features. However, without looking at it personally, I am going off reviews I found on YouTube for the SV223 2" model.

Baader does make a visual backing that is 2" for the SCT which comes with their ClickLock system for swapping out attachment accessories or even directly to a camera. This looks pretty good for connections.

Thanks,

James

[cbowlsby]

I’m a big fan of the ClickLock system, especially for visual backs. All my scopes, adapters, and every possible diagonal have them.

There’s no need to spend $300-$400 on a diagonal unless you have the budget, plenty of people use cheaper diagonals and get great results.

In addition to the Svbony, I recommend checking out the options from our sponsor, Astro-Tech. They have several good diagonals at a good price.

Edited by cbowlsby, 14 May 2025 - 02:25 PM.

[Majeskty]

Yes I am confirming the Morpheus have no problems with my APM or Baader 2” prisms.  It is not even close to bottoming out.  The Morpheus is 45mm from shoulder safety catch to bottom of 1.25” nose.  That is within a couple millimeters of standard 2” eyepieces.  

Screenshot 2025-05-10 at 11.13.07 AM.jpeg.png

 

Here is a photo of a 12.5mm Morpheus vs Pentax 40XW aligning the two shoulder catches.  You will see the Morpheus is only a couple millimeters longer.

IMG_4900.jpeg

 

For grins and giggles I even put on a 1.25” filter and it still didn’t bottom out in either diagonal.  It went all the way in to the shoulder catch.

Thanks for those photo's for comparsion, very nicely done!!!

[SeattleScott]

A standard 1.25” prism would hold Morpheus fine. The QC can be hit or miss though. But if you got a good one, little need to upgrade unless you want to use 2” eyepiece. Also, a 2” diagonal could have clearance issues on your mount.