19 replies to this topic

[Charlie.de]

Hi, around 2000 euro budget Between ... (ASI2600MC Pro) and (ASI533MM Pro + Filter wheel + Filters) Which one do you choose? the price is even higher on 533 with all attachments.

Or 2600MM Pro and wait to complete everything over time ?

[Dynan]

The 2600 is a much better camera. You'll buy it now...or later. So it's your choice to wait or not.

[Charlie.de]

The 2600 is a much better camera. You'll buy it now...or later. So it's your choice to wait or not.

Yeah, I keep telling myself to buy 2600 

Thanks.

[bobzeq25]

Hi, around 2000 euro budget Between ... (ASI2600MC Pro) and (ASI533MM Pro + Filter wheel + Filters) Which one do you choose?

Both good choices. Neither would be a mistake.

Others opinions are of little value to you, because so much about them is so different.

Edited by bobzeq25, 13 May 2025 - 03:03 PM.

[Charlie.de]

Both good choices. Neither would be a mistake.

Others opinions are of little value to you, because so much about them is so different.

Be honest, I like the 2600MC Pro, because compare to MM version, I don't see any big difference between them. I know MM has bigger surface on the chip for each color but at the end, the images must pass through several different editing softwares.

 

https://app.astrobin...o-asi2600mc-pro

https://app.astrobin...o-asi2600mm-pro

[Astro-Goat]

The 2600 is a much better camera. You'll buy it now...or later. So it's your choice to wait or not.

agree with that statement. I started with the 294MC then quickly realized i wanted more pixels, better resolution, and ability to crop without losing alot.

[bobzeq25]

Be honest, I like the 2600MC Pro, because compare to MM version, I don't see any big difference between them. I know MM has bigger surface on the chip for each color but at the end, the images must pass through several different editing softwares.
 
https://app.astrobin...o-asi2600mc-pro
https://app.astrobin...o-asi2600mm-pro

Again, two good choices, BUT...

You REALLY don't understand how mono works.

1. With narrowband targets, the camera captures all the light from all the pixels that comes through the monoband filter. Color camera - not so much.

2. With broadband targets, you can use a luminance filter for most of the data capture. Again, that's all the light on all the pixels.

It makes a difference. How much can be debated, and is often debated here. Whether it's worth the substantial extra cost, ditto.

But there's a fundamental thing going on, and they're not really doing the same thing.

You can do nice images with both. But you might want to understand the basics of each better before making a decision between them. It's not easily described in a short post here.

My advice? Get the MC, work with it. You'll be better positioned to study mono, and make a better decision - later.

Edited by bobzeq25, 13 May 2025 - 08:43 PM.

[Charlie.de]

Again, two good choices, BUT...

You REALLY don't understand how mono works.

1. With narrowband targets, the camera captures all the light from all the pixels that comes through the monoband filter. Color camera - not so much.

2. With broadband targets, you can use a luminance filter for most of the data capture. Again, that's all the light on all the pixels.

It makes a difference. How much can be debated, and is often debated here. Whether it's worth the substantial extra cost, ditto.

But there's a fundamental thing going on, and they're not really doing the same thing.

You can do nice images with both. But you might want to understand the basics of each better before making a decision between them. It's not easily described in a short post here.

My advice? Get the MC, work with it. You'll be better positioned to study mono, and make a better decision - later.

Thanks, I absolutely know how mono works! this discussion is all about money. 

How about to use my Canon R6 first?

anyway I want to spend 2K for camera, I'll go for 2600MM, then I can buy filters and EFW in 2-3 month. The 2 inches SHO 3nm Antlia filters is around 1150 Euro, EFW is 440 Euro, Optolong LRGB 220 Euro.

That makes double the price.

 

Edit:

This is why I started this thread.

I asked for 2K now we reached to 4K.

Of course you get what you pay for. 

Edited by Charlie.de, 14 May 2025 - 01:51 AM.

[bobzeq25]

Thanks, I absolutely know how mono works! this discussion is all about money. 
How about to use my Canon R6 first?
anyway I want to spend 2K for camera, I'll go for 2600MM, then I can buy filters and EFW in 2-3 month. The 2 inches SHO 3nm Antlia filters is around 1150 Euro, EFW is 440 Euro, Optolong LRGB 220 Euro.
That makes double the price.

I'm not trying to persuade you to use mono, note that my final advice was to go for a color camera. The reason I thought you didn't understand mono was that you said: "I don't see any big difference between them. I know MM has bigger surface on the chip for each color but at the end, the images must pass through several different editing softwares." That is incorrect, in more than one way. Which is why I said you didn't understand mono. A key one is that DSO imaging has horrible signal to noise ratio, using the whole chip on the light is a big help with that.

By all means use the R6. Note that it's somewhat noisier than a cooled astro camera (once again the horrible signal to noise ratio of DSO imaging makes that important), and not as sensitive to light from emission nebulae. Two reasons I recommended cooled astro cameras, even ones with smaller field of view.

You're correct that mono is about 2X the price of OSC. Whether or not it's worth it is a common argument here.

Edited by bobzeq25, 14 May 2025 - 01:58 AM.

[Charlie.de]

I'm not trying to persuade you to use mono, note that my final advice was to go for a color camera. The reason I thought you didn't understand mono was that you said: "I don't see any big difference between them. I know MM has bigger surface on the chip for each color but at the end, the images must pass through several different editing softwares." That is incorrect, in more than one way. Which is why I said you didn't understand mono. A key one is that DSO imaging has horrible signal to noise ratio, using the whole chip on the light is a big help with that.

By all means use the R6. Note that it's somewhat noisier than a cooled astro camera (once again the horrible signal to noise ratio of DSO imaging makes that important), and not as sensitive to light from emission nebulae. Two reasons I recommended cooled astro cameras, even ones with smaller field of view.

You're correct that mono is about 2X the price of OSC. Whether or not it's worth it is a common argument here.

Yes I understand that, But my decision is not to waste money and straight go for the best. I'll go for 2600MM. I'll buy the camera now then filters in 2 month.

Thanks.

[archiebald]

Thanks, I absolutely know how mono works! this discussion is all about money. 

How about to use my Canon R6 first?

anyway I want to spend 2K for camera, I'll go for 2600MM, then I can buy filters and EFW in 2-3 month. The 2 inches SHO 3nm Antlia filters is around 1150 Euro, EFW is 440 Euro, Optolong LRGB 220 Euro.

That makes double the price.

 

Edit:

This is why I started this thread.

I asked for 2K now we reached to 4K.

Of course you get what you pay for. 

For an IMX571 sensor, you don't need 2" filters.  36mm unmounted will suffice and save some money.  You'll only need 2" for full frame.

 

Another way to spread cost - you can also just purchase the LRGB set first, then add the (generally more) expensive NB filters later.

 

Also, unless you are locked in by a ZWO Air, then there are numerous other brands that may bring better value to the table.

 

If it were me starting on that path with what I know now, I would recommend.....

 

1. IMX533 Mono sensor (significantly cheaper, same sized pixels as the IMX571)
2. 7x36 filter wheel
3. LRGB 36mm unmounted (you can get away with 31mm if sticking with the IMX533, but 36mm gives you some future proofing in case the IMX571 itch gets too strong)

 

Then later decide whether to switch up to the IMX571 Mono and/or HSO filters (either keep or sell the IMX533)

 

(I did it differently, but in hindsight I would have chosen the path above)
 

[michael8554]

Have you considered the pixel scale with your OTA ?

[Charlie.de]

For an IMX571 sensor, you don't need 2" filters.  36mm unmounted will suffice and save some money.  You'll only need 2" for full frame.

 

Another way to spread cost - you can also just purchase the LRGB set first, then add the (generally more) expensive NB filters later.

 

Also, unless you are locked in by a ZWO Air, then there are numerous other brands that may bring better value to the table.

 

If it were me starting on that path with what I know now, I would recommend.....

 

1. IMX533 Mono sensor (significantly cheaper, same sized pixels as the IMX571)
2. 7x36 filter wheel
3. LRGB 36mm unmounted (you can get away with 31mm if sticking with the IMX533, but 36mm gives you some future proofing in case the IMX571 itch gets too strong)

 

Then later decide whether to switch up to the IMX571 Mono and/or HSO filters (either keep or sell the IMX533)

 

(I did it differently, but in hindsight I would have chosen the path above)
 

Yes thats 500 euro difference

 

Have you considered the pixel scale with your OTA ?

If you mean G ratio !? I have ASI220MM Mini and SV106 60mm f/4 Guide Scope (I've had it).

main scope is Omegon pro APO 85/510 with 0.8 reducer flatener

If I'm wrong please explain to me.

Thanks

 

The imaging / guiding ratio is (1:1.81) in this setup, with ASI 2600MM pro

with ASI 533MM pro imaging / guiding ratio is (1:1.7)

Edited by Charlie.de, 14 May 2025 - 05:22 AM.

[bobzeq25]

Yes I understand that, But my decision is not to waste money and straight go for the best. I'll go for 2600MM. I'll buy the camera now then filters in 2 month.
Thanks.

Suggestions (2).

You'll need a UV/IR blocking filter (cheap) or your stars will be noticeably bloated. The MM was not designed to be used with no filter at all.

An alternative is to just get the Ha filter now. Black and white Ha is an excellent way to learn about narrowband imaging AND to make some pretty pictures. Click on the crummy CN thumbnail for a good version and details. 2600MM. Bortle 7.

Edited by bobzeq25, 14 May 2025 - 12:58 PM.

[Zambiadarkskies]

Use the R6 while you prepare funds... It absolutely can work and is very capable.  I would jump the 533 and go for the 2600 in whatever form (mono or colour) suits your sky light pollution and imaging style. Mono is generally better, but for some of us the difference is not worth the monetary difference...  YMMV.  The only disadvantage of the 533 is field of view.  For many (myself included) eventually that becomes enough of an issue to upgrade.  Some samples of the (stock) R6 in action:  

 

 

 

Edited by Zambiadarkskies, 14 May 2025 - 02:06 PM.

[Charlie.de]

Those images are fantastic.

Well, I'm going to buy a 2600MM now (still waiting for my mount to arrive), I'll learn photography with my R6 camera then gonna buy the rest of the filters and EFW in two months. I have a long way to go.

Price jumped up but worth it.

Thanks guys and appreciated.

Edited by Charlie.de, 14 May 2025 - 06:45 PM.

[AstroFromHome]

There are cheaper options compared to ZWO.

Just in case you did not lock yourself up in the ZWO space by affording an AsiAir for which there are nowadays also alternatives. 

 

The 533 and 571 are basically the same sensor in different sizes. Both perform the same.

 

I assume based on the .de in you user name that you are German. So it would be pure German deal.

I might be willing to sell my 2600MC Pro with modded (more siltent) fan.

Edited by AstroFromHome, 15 May 2025 - 03:23 PM.

[Charlie.de]

There are cheaper options compared to ZWO.

Just in case you did not lock yourself up in the ZWO space by affording an AsiAir for which there are nowadays also alternatives. 

 

The 533 and 571 are basically the same sensor in different sizes. Both perform the same.

 

I assume based on the .de in you user name that you are German. So it would be pure German deal.

I might be willing to sell my 2600MC Pro with modded (more siltent) fan.

Yes I'm from Germany, as my research, ASI Air is easier to use for beginners, the alternatives are Touptek Stella vita or Primalucelab Eagle.... Currently I have everything except filters and filter wheel. I bought 2600MM a few days ago I'm waiting for delivery.

 

Plus between Touptech camera and ZWO camera there is not much difference in price!

Just don't buy from local dealer

 

https://www.aliexpre...4849002765!!1!0

 

https://www.toupteka...oducts/atr2600m

Edited by Charlie.de, 18 May 2025 - 05:07 PM.

[Zambiadarkskies]

Yes I'm from Germany, as my research, ASI Air is easier to use for beginners, the alternatives are Touptek Stella vita or Primalucelab Eagle.... Currently I have everything except filters and filter wheel. I boght 2600MM a few days ago I'm waiting for delivery.

 

Plus between Touptech camera and ZWO camera there is not much difference in price!

Just don't buy from local dealer

 

https://www.aliexpre...4849002765!!1!0

 

https://www.toupteka...oducts/atr2600m

Nice!   Yes, the air is a good way to start.  The Eagle is a very expensive option, which can totally be replaced by say a mele quieter and a power box.  I use a Mele 3C and a wanderer power box lite and it works really well.  But the air makes getting started and everything working together much easier.  

[AstroFromHome]

Ok... as you have already ordered you seem to be fine. Else we could have talked about my 2600MC Pro with molded fan and my AsiAir Plus in the 32 GB that still used to have a Tf card slot. 

 

Most stuff I order from my Chinese dealer for a price that most people would not believe. 

Just saying... my Player One camera with IMX571 sensor, filter wheel and OAG was cheaper than the two options that you have in your links. 

 

Just saying.... Touptek StellaVita is overall even easier to use because of the clean and straight forward UI design. Just for users that are used to the AsiAir UI it is a bit difficult. Just like changing from a car with a zillion buttons and levers to a Tesla.

 

Get the Eagle from you mind. By far too expensive for the offering. A mini PC and a good power box is much better and cheaper. The only advantage of the Eagle is the possibility to measure sky brightness. Anyway I never missed that when using AsiAir, StellaVita, mini PC with NINA, RasPi with Ekos.

Measuring sky brightness is a gimmick that is mostly useless. After two sessions you know how long you can expose without having light pollution killing your subs.