46 replies to this topic

[BGazing]

T6s and Delites are excellent in 100DF, and roughly the same weight, so balance is never an issue.

On the shorter end of things, I sold my Delite 3mm, as it was too much magnification (floaters), and for doubles I could always use 3.5T6 or put 7mm into a powermate.

Delite 4mm is perfect for the Moon, Saturn and Jupiter when seeing complies, and 5mm is a good fallback magnification in that scope. 

Edited by BGazing, 25 May 2025 - 01:48 PM.

[Cheshire Cat]

Check out my signature, should work well for you too.

[Spinwiz]

From the standpoint of a complete amateur, the 18mm Delite was my first eyepiece purchase.   The goal was to buy long eye relief without blowing a fortune (old fart).   Yeah I know Delites are not cheap but they are not top end either.   Due to the lack of a clear sky aligning with free time, I've only used it for terrestrial viewing and honestly I was impressed.  

 

Since this was installed in a low end refractor I have to imagine beautiful results on a Tak.

[Procyon]

David,

Have you directly compared the Delites' rendering of Albireo or Almach or h3945 or 24 Comae Berenices to a non-Delite eyepiece? The point isn't that they don't show color, but compared to Tak LEs, Long Perng plossls, Nagler T6's, BCO's, do the Delites show any of the aforementioned colorful pairs as well in 4" or smaller apertures? And I'm talking direct comparison, in the moment testing, not memory, recollection, impression, etc.

I've heard of Lanthanum in scopes showing red colors or stars better while at the same time showing blue stars whiter. I've never looked into this myself though. Did not know other factors could affect yellows also, lie the ones you mention. Are you talking about every color or certain type of colors? This would make quite an interesting thread.

PS> I've been looking for eyepieces that show greater blues, if so, the eyepieces you mention could be very interesting to me, thanks.

[davidgmd]

PS> I've been looking for eyepieces that show greater blues, if so, the eyepieces you mention could be very interesting to me, thanks.

Bluer blues = eyepieces with a reputation for cool tones. Some CN threads on this:
https://www.cloudyni...tral-eyepieces/
https://www.cloudyni...tone-eyepieces/

[Procyon]

Bluer blues = eyepieces with a reputation for cool tones. Some CN threads on this:
https://www.cloudyni...tral-eyepieces/
https://www.cloudyni...tone-eyepieces/

I started a new thread, would be great to add these links there instead of over taking this one I guess.

 

https://www.cloudyni.../#entry14152384

[Lookitup]

After selling my T6 9 & 11mm I got a pair of Vixen SSW 10 mm for the Binotron. Other than at Jupiter I liked the color rendition better but they were less immersive to my eyes. Then I got Delite 7, 9 and 11 mm. The 7 and 11's were perfect but the much cheaper 12 mm Paradigms (pic) were close and got used as much as the Delite's. Then I gradually drifted to wider FOV eye-pieces. Morpheus 9, 12.5 and 17.5 mm, Pentax XW 10 mm (fav.) and ES 68 degree 24mm are my most used ones now.   

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Edited by Lookitup, 26 May 2025 - 03:16 PM.

[Look at the sky 101]

I want to thank you all, I told him to find a balance between the delites and the delos. That way he will be able to see what he likes the most and make his choice.

[iKMN]

Late to the chat… I have the DF and roll with Ethos.  The 17mm is really a nice exit pupil. I really do use all my focal lengths.  But there is something special about that 2mm exit pupil range give or take,  So I don’t have Delites or Delos but I imagine the 18Delite or 17.3 Delos might be nice to have or maybe even the 15mm Delite which seems like an odd focal length but could be nice as well.  I’m lucky to have a full range of FLs to pick from but if I was just trying to be minimalist I would definitely want something in that 18-15 range cause the DF/DC is F7.4 instead of the typical 4” inch F7.  Clear skies

 

K

[eblanken]

Hi All,

 

I wear large aviator frames and tri-focal eyeglasses with Sphere & Cylinder . . . I am very happy with the full set of DeLites:

 

18.2, 15, 13, 11, 9, 7, 5, 4, 3mm and interleave Radians for the even mm at 12, 10, 8, 6 mm . . . I wish the Radians were DeLites too . . .

 

I have refractors at 60mm, 72mm, 80mm & 100mm and MCTs & SCTs at 100mm, 125/127mm and 203mm . . . 

 

The DeLites work well for me . . . 

 

Best,

 

Ed

Edited by eblanken, 28 May 2025 - 11:17 PM.

[CollinofAlabama]

David…your experience with the Delites and color on Albireo makes sense. What does not make sense is the poster’s assertion in post #12 that the Delites show NO color on Albireo in a 4” refractor. In fact, I believe he stated that the Albireo was only 2 “white dots.” I have never seen that on Albireo in any eyepiece by any manufacturer and at any price range. I have no idea how it would even be possible to make a high end ocular like a Delite with all its optical properties, yet would “blank out” color on Albireo! If that’s what he saw, fine. But to extrapolate that everyone will see the same is quite unscientific. And to further say the TV Everbrite also blanks out color because ONE person sent him a private message? Wow. At any rate, I’ve never used a Delite but have used a TV Everbrite since 2001. Colors are quite vibrant. But I’ll take my own advice and state that mine is the only Everbrite I’ve used. One further point…both Al and David Nagler are avid observers and they both list the TV85 as one of their favorites. It seems impossible to think that neither have pointed one at Albireo with a Delite in the focuser. If they saw only 2 white dots, I think they might have been alarmed!  In fact, I might just ask them. At any rate, as you note, color vision varies greatly from person to person. But I think we can put this notion to bed that the Delite and Everbrite, with all their rave reviews over the years on their optical performance, somehow magically don’t transmit color in small aperture. 
 

p.s,. And you need not compare the Delite to the other eyepieces he mentioned as he said there was NO color on Albireo in a 4” scope in post #12…which is certainly not what you saw. Ok..enough.

I wrote "Gamma Andromedae or Albireo are just two white stars in the Delites when in a 4" refractor's focuser.  Well, they possess some color, but very, very little -- both almost just white.  They lack the vibrant colors a person is used to in the TV Nagler T6's or various other orthos or plossls, but plain jane white in the Delites."  They had some color, but noticeably subdued colors compared to a variety of other eyepieces, including older Televue options.  Although I was using particular hardware and my vision is unique to me, and therefore my color rendition, this was also noted by Bill Paolini in his overall positive review of the Delites in his 4" Tak, noting further the problem disappeared in his 10" dob.  Therefore, you have two experienced users, one quite a bit more experienced than me, and likely the vast majority of people reading this, finding the same result.  You can "put the notion to bed" if you like, but I prefer experiential testing, which is what I've done, and therefore the basis of my writings on the matter.  The matter is not "put to bed" until a person has done something similar, which, in some ways, David in Maryland has done, using the TOE.  I, like you, haven't used those.  BTW, I haven't used a Tak LE in decades.  BillP made his observations in his review article on the Delites in 2015 using Tak LEs for comparative purposes.  Search for "Albireo" in the article to see the corroboration of what I write about.  My original post is here on CN.  I used Nagler T6's, BCOs and Long Perng (Sterling) plossls.  I also involved two barlows that produced a similar muting of color, the Televue 2x and GSO 2.5x apochromatic, the TV 2x doing the muting here, without the aid of the Delites.  The TV Everbrites I have no personal experience with, only during the comments on my original post, got an unsolicited message from a user here on CN concerning the TV diagonal having muted his colors, too.  That one is definitely hearsay, and I note that in the original post, since I haven't tested one, unlike my experiences with the Delites and Televue 2x barlow.  However, given this, if one uses a TV Everbrite diagonal to perform these tests, well, that might not work, since if it does mute colors, all eyepieces would produce muted colors.  Something to consider.

 

Please note, I've never suggested the Delites weren't extremely sharp.  Both I and Bill Paolini concur what an excellent job they do on the moon, in particular.  Of course, the moon is one target that really has almost no color.  Also, I'm not suggesting the issue doesn't go away with aperture.  Delites, apparently with enough photons pushing through them, like from a 10" dob, have no color rendition issues.  OTOH, in smaller apertures, they appear to mute colors.  I believe Don Pensack has written before that very sharp resolution oculars can mute colors to the eye.  C'est ça.

Edited by CollinofAlabama, 29 May 2025 - 09:24 AM.

[alnitak22]

Collin…was going to write you a PM but will make one more post here and let it go. I do NOT doubt what you saw in your 4” scope but neither do I doubt what David saw using Delites in his 4” and 3.7” scopes. And what he saw is radically different than your description and pretty much exactly matches what I see on Albireo in both my 70mm and 85mm scopes. Our color vision is tied to brightness. A grove of trees on an October day is awash in color under the midday sun, but may be just shades of grey at dusk. Likewise, if look at Albireo in say my 70mm Ranger at less than .5mm exit pupil, the colors aren’t as vivid. But that’s not the fault of the eyepiece I’m using. If the Delites had poor transmission then it’s possible that colors would be muted, but everything I’ve read about them over the years says the opposite regarding transmission. I just don’t see how an eyepiece with excellent transmission would not transmit color well. Tone is different.  I may call up TeleVue and ask if they’ve had reports of poor star colors in Delites over the years. 
 

And I have to say something about the Everbrite and color situation as that makes zero sense. The Everbrite is a mirror and works like all mirrors….it REFLECTS light. It does not add or subtract data. And assuming a clean Everbrite, it has a 99% reflective rate over the visual spectrum. That’s pretty danged high and thus, it reflects all colors in the spectrum equally well. Don’t see much wiggle room there. To claim otherwise is to simply misunderstand how a mirror works. 

[CollinofAlabama]

Alnitak22,

 

I am uninterested in words.  I have reported what I saw under the stars, in detail.  Are you using an Everbrite diagonal?  I agree that a diagonal shouldn't modify colors, but that's what someone told me was their experience.  BTW, I'd further agree that the TV 2x barlow shouldn't mute colors, but that's what I saw under the stars.  I believe I explained my experiences in detail, and did so comparatively in my original post.  I explained all the hardware involved, my GSO diagonal, C102GT tube, different eyepieces, and different results on Gamma Andromedae.   Bill Paolini did the same concerning Albireo in his Tak 4" and his Orion 10".  If you did the same, you'd have a point, but, as I wrote in the first post, I'm unconcerned about shoulds and coulds.  What did you find under the stars?  Recollection and opinion can be hinderances to discovery when not tested.

Edited by CollinofAlabama, 29 May 2025 - 11:40 AM.

[Mike W]

I've used both Delites and Delos in my TV102 for years with a TV Everbrite and star colors are bright and vivid. 

[RAKing]

One nice thing about looking at double stars is that you can view them through clouds and haze sometimes.  You can also look at them with a bright moon in the sky, and those sky conditions are the only times I have ever seen any normally colorful double star wash out - in any scope with any eyepiece or diagonal.

 

I have been chasing doubles since 1964, with a lot of different scopes, diagonals, and eyepieces.  I am not an expert, and the only thing I can state with confidence is that I have not seen any issues with my DeLite eyepieces.  They show star colors very well for me - as do my Delos, Ethos, Naglers, Pentaxes, ZAO orthos, Morpheus, Docter, and Leica zoom.

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

[alnitak22]

Alnitak22,

 

I am uninterested in words.  I have reported what I saw under the stars, in detail.  Are you using an Everbrite diagonal?  I agree that a diagonal shouldn't modify colors, but that's what someone told me was their experiences.  BTW, I'd further agree that the TV 2x barlow shouldn't mute colors, but that's what I saw under the stars.  I believe I explained my experiences in detail, and did so comparatively in my original post.  I explained all the hardware involved, my GSO diagonal, C102GT tube, different eyepieces, and different results on Gamma Andromedae.   Bill Paolini did the same concerning Albireo in his Tak 4" and his Orion 10".  If you did the same, you'd have a point, but, as I wrote in the first post, I'm unconcerned about shoulds and coulds.  What did you find under the stars?  Recollection and opinion can be hinderances to discovery when not tested.

“I am uninterested in words.” Ok…says it all. As I wrote before, I’ve used an Everbrite since 2001. Please see posts #39 and 40. But then again, they’re just words.

Edited by alnitak22, 29 May 2025 - 11:40 AM.

[Mike W]

Here's an unbiased review of the Delite on BBC- Albireo- "Golden yellow primary and azure blue secondary"

 

More than just words!

 

https://www.skyatnig...-eyepiece-range

Edited by Mike W, 29 May 2025 - 12:49 PM.

[alnitak22]

Here's an unbiased review of the Delite on BBC- Albireo- "Golden yellow primary and azure blue secondary"

 

More than just words!

 

https://www.skyatnig...-eyepiece-range

AND with a 4” scope too! 

[CollinofAlabama]

AND with a 4” scope too! 

Yeah.  Wonder if they also used an Everbrite diagonal.  Didn't say.

[Lentini]

And I have to say something about the Everbrite and color situation as that makes zero sense. The Everbrite is a mirror and works like all mirrors….it REFLECTS light. It does not add or subtract data. And assuming a clean Everbrite, it has a 99% reflective rate over the visual spectrum. That’s pretty danged high and thus, it reflects all colors in the spectrum equally well. Don’t see much wiggle room there. To claim otherwise is to simply misunderstand how a mirror works. 

Re: Mirrors reflecting all colors equally well... I don't think that's a feature of mirrors. But 99% across the visual spectrum with the Everbrite is a nice feature.

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Edited by Lentini, 04 June 2025 - 01:55 PM.

[alnitak22]

Re: Mirrors reflecting all colors equally well... I don't think that's a feature of mirrors. But 99% across the visual spectrum with the Everbrite is a nice feature.

Yes, I should have been more clear that I meant the Everbrite reflects all colors equally well. Btw, I followed up and talked to David Nagler about the claim Delites don’t show colorful stars well in 4” and smaller scopes. He told me they have not had ONE call or comment stating such over the years. 

[Cheshire Cat]

I've used both Delites and Delos in my TV102 for years with a TV Everbrite and star colors are bright and vivid.

And that is exactly my experience too. I am literally staggering anyone would report anything else.