Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

10" Solar (uncoated) Newtonian

  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Great Attractor

Great Attractor

    Vendor - ImPPG Imaging Software

  • -----
  • Vendors
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 828
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2012
  • Loc: Switzerland

Posted 20 May 2025 - 02:28 PM

Introduction

 

I'd been thinking about building a new solar telescope since early 2024; in the end I chose a solar Newtonian (with an uncoated primary). At the moment it's usable for photosphere and prominence imaging; I might add more functionality later.

 

TL;DR: the telescope works as expected, a sample successful session: Solar Newt. 10" 3rd light: great seeing, Hα to UV.

 

 

Why?

 

Apart from taking up an interesting project, Baader no longer sells their ND 3.8 solar film in sizes >20 cm (see e.g. this thread.)

 

(Other possibilities — like a heat rejection wedge, or a full-flux reflector with sub-aperture ERF, special secondary & liquid cooling — are rather more complex, but in the future, who knows.)

 

 

Structure

 

I knew I wanted a truss build, for airflow and weight reduction. After reading through lots and lots of ATM content, as much as I'd love to have elegant triangles and ball joints, I settled for something simpler: square frames of equal size, connected with square-tubing trusses screwed-on flat (all aluminum). Not a great beauty, but it works (click images for full size):

 

tel2
 
tel3
 
tel4
 
tel5
 
tel6

 

 

I cut and drilled everything myself, only had the welding done in a local workshop. The frames use 20x20x2 mm tubing, trusses are 15x15x1.5 mm (20x20x2 mm under the focuser plate). Mostly using M5 screws, except the dovetail profile (M6 + M8 under the primary), which includes small support blocks against squeezing:

 

bloczk1
 
bloczk2
 
bloczk3

 

 

Optics

 

Initially I wanted to dealuminize my SW 250PDS's primary, but in the end got new fused silica mirrors (Construzioni Ottiche Zen). Primary: D = 255 mm, f = 1192 mm (f/4.7); secondary: 67 mm minor axis.

 

 

PM cell

 

This was my first time using a plunge router. I used 2x12 mm plywood (beech), glued with Titebond III (saw it mentioned here on CN). 6-point bottom support, with whiffletree + rollers side supports (as per Mike Lockwood.) Probably an overkill for a mirror this size, but I wanted to tinker a bit.

 

cela3
 
cela4
 
cela5

 

It's rigid, but a bit on the heavy side (0.9 kg plate, 1.5 kg with all attachments):

 

cela6
 
cela7
 
cela8
 
cela9
 
cela10

 

 

Assembly

 

Precise adjustments of the optical path are of course performed using mirror controls, but the OTA should be put together without gross misalignment. Here's my approach:

 

  • the bottom frame is placed on an adjustable platform and made level:
poziom1
 
  • the remaining frames are added while controlling their level and concentricity with mini-plumb lines made with threaded needles (there's some wiggle room in the bolt holes for that):
poziom2
 
poziom3

 

 

This way the frames end up positioned with 1-2 mm accuracy, which is sufficient (the PM has >20 mm clearance).

 

 

SM spider

 

One can use any kind of secondary mounting for a solar telescope (just without blackening). I was captivated by the wire spider design shown in this thread and decided to build one myself. It uses these locking guitar heads:

 

Harley Benton Parts Locking Chrome Single R1

 

and D’Addario PL013 (0.33 mm) steel strings.

 

The adjustments are a bit non-intuitive at first, but after some getting used to it's very convenient (one chooses 2 opposing knobs, turns them in the opposite directions, the laser moves along the PM very slowly and predictably.)

 

pająk1
 
pająk2
 
pająk3

 

After assembling and tensioning, the strings would produce a nice, clear tone, which seemed funny at first; but then I realized it means under some conditions I might have long-lasting vibrations of the SM. Therefore I added these little dampers:

 

tłumik

 

 

Other equipment

 

For testing I'd put on the small FeatherTouch 1.25" Crayford; now there's a Baader Steeltrack and a motofocuser controlled via Bluetooth (DreamFocuser mini):

 

wyciąg

 

The OTA weighs in at 11.8 kg (26 lbs).

 

 

Collimation

 

Initial collimation is performed as with a regular Newt.:

 

  • center SM under focuser
  • make SM & PM borders concentric
  • adjust SM to send laser beam to PM's center
  • adjust PM using a Cheshire

 

The reflection of Cheshire's annulus in the PM is sufficiently well visible (one just needs to point the Cheshire' disc toward a light source, e.g., a ceiling lamp or the Sun).

 

Night collimation on a star works fine, at least with a camera (I haven't tried visually with a small exit pupil). Brighter stars are readily visible at lower magnifications (I used 4.3 mm exit pupil for pointing). I can't show a pretty diffraction pattern at this time, the seeing during my night test was mediocre (red long-pass >610 nm filter):

 

gwiazda.gif

 

All right, but how does one verify the collimation in daytime? Beside pointing at the Sun's reflection in a ball bearing etc., we can still collimate on a star — the Sun itself! As mentioned in Solar Astronomy, telescope's collimation can be assessed based on the view of granulation. Here's what's worked for me:

 

  • using camera without a Barlow, point at the geometric center of the solar disc (so that granulation is viewed from the optimal angle — straight down). The center can be found by relying on limb darkening; just set the shutter/gain high enough, that the disc's middle is overexposed, and center on that hotspot:
hotspot
 
  • record a short video and stack it, then sharpen (overly) and assess; if the combination of PM's focal ratio and sensor size (mine is 1/3") is adequate, you'll see where the comatic outer FOV begins. In my case, after the initial laser+Cheshire collimation, it looked like this (I marked the area around the optical axis - as I reckon):
2św koli1 Ozn
 
It should be centered, as for the actual imaging I use a 2.5-4x Barlow.
 
For my third session I transported the telescope by car; after it went up on the mount, the laser was still pointing exactly at the PM's center marker. The granulation check was almost fine:
 
3św koli Ozn

 

(I left it at that, the images turned out just fine.)

 

Conclusion: the telescope in its current incarnation holds collimation reasonably well (...at least in the range of orientations adequate for morning solar operations.)

 

Sample image (Baader Solar Continuum (540 nm/10 nm), Baader TZ-4S, AS!3 and ImPPG):

 

sc_sm.png


Edited by Great Attractor, 20 May 2025 - 03:28 PM.

  • BYoesle, theaberrator, PrestonE and 17 others like this

#2 happylimpet

happylimpet

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,000
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2013
  • Loc: Southampton, UK

Posted 20 May 2025 - 02:36 PM

Superb creation you have there - great work. Lets see some more images! (EDIT no worries i clicked the link!)


Edited by happylimpet, 20 May 2025 - 02:37 PM.


#3 Random2310

Random2310

    Explorer 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 79
  • Joined: 03 Jun 2023
  • Loc: Madison, Wisconsin

Posted 22 May 2025 - 04:31 PM

Oh baby, I have been waiting for this thread since you first posted your results in the Solar Observing forum.

 

This is really awesome and inspiring work!


  • PrestonE and Oregon-raybender like this

#4 calypsob

calypsob

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,561
  • Joined: 20 Apr 2013
  • Loc: Virginia

Posted 22 May 2025 - 05:54 PM

Ok youve got me curious, what in the optical train attenuates the energy of the sun on a newtonian?

#5 OregonAstronomer

OregonAstronomer

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 644
  • Joined: 20 Apr 2020
  • Loc: Central Willamette Valley, Oregon High Desert and remotely from New Mexico

Posted 22 May 2025 - 11:27 PM

Ok youve got me curious, what in the optical train attenuates the energy of the sun on a newtonian?

An un-aluminized primary mirror passes 96% of the solar irradiation out the back of the mirror, reflecting only 4% up to the aluminized secondary mirror and eyepiece/camera. Much like a Herschel wedge on a refractor.

 

Arnie


  • PrestonE, Great Attractor, calypsob and 2 others like this

#6 Great Attractor

Great Attractor

    Vendor - ImPPG Imaging Software

  • -----
  • Vendors
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 828
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2012
  • Loc: Switzerland

Posted 23 May 2025 - 03:27 AM

Thanks!

 

 

Ok youve got me curious, what in the optical train attenuates the energy of the sun on a newtonian?

 

An un-aluminized primary mirror passes 96% of the solar irradiation out the back of the mirror, reflecting only 4% up to the aluminized secondary mirror and eyepiece/camera. Much like a Herschel wedge on a refractor.

 

Arnie

 

Right. Consider this: the primary has D = 255 mm, f = 1192 mm; assuming Sun's angular size of θ = 0.5°, its image has diameter of:

 

df · θ · π/180 ≈ 10.4 mm

 

Power density at the primary mirror is 1000 W/m², and within the image: 0.04 · (D/d)² · 1000 W/m² ≈ 24 kW/m². Total power delivered to the focal plane is just π · (d/2)² · 24000 W ≈ 2 W. There's no heat build-up there, but still plenty of light for imaging. For the Solar Continuum (10 nm FWHM) shots at f/18.7 I added an ND 0.9 filter, and needed only 0.4 ms shutter (with zero gain).


  • PrestonE, siriusandthepup, R Botero and 3 others like this

#7 R Botero

R Botero

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • -----
  • Posts: 6,196
  • Joined: 02 Jan 2009
  • Loc: Kent, England

Posted 23 May 2025 - 04:09 AM

Filip

 

Glad you are posting about your scope also here.  It's a beautiful instrument and the resolution is to dream of.  Congratulations again on completing it.

 

Roberto


  • PrestonE likes this

#8 calypsob

calypsob

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,561
  • Joined: 20 Apr 2013
  • Loc: Virginia

Posted 23 May 2025 - 08:23 AM

An un-aluminized primary mirror passes 96% of the solar irradiation out the back of the mirror, reflecting only 4% up to the aluminized secondary mirror and eyepiece/camera. Much like a Herschel wedge on a refractor.

 

Arnie

Cool! I had no idea it worked that way.


  • Flappytango and Clark@Night like this

#9 PrestonE

PrestonE

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,451
  • Joined: 29 Apr 2005
  • Loc: San Miguel de Allende,Mexico

Posted 23 May 2025 - 10:35 PM

How did you treat the Back of the Primary Mirror?

 

Ground and left fine ground or Polished or Raw state of the glass?

 

Your images are wonderful and after seeing the other new commercial solar Newtonians, 

it would be an interesting project.

 

Best Regards,

 

Preston



#10 Great Attractor

Great Attractor

    Vendor - ImPPG Imaging Software

  • -----
  • Vendors
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 828
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2012
  • Loc: Switzerland

Posted 24 May 2025 - 03:53 PM

It seems to me nothing specific has been done to the back of the mirror. It's translucent, with some marks (I guess) from the production process. Image contrast is similar to a normal telescope with Baader solar film (i.e., very good). You can find some remarks on polished vs rough back on  Christian's telescope website. I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations and it seems even if you had a perfectly white Lambertian surface (e.g., a solid mirror cell) behind the PM, the additional (diffuse) light at the focal plane would be on the order of 10⁻³ of the Sun's image brightness.


  • happylimpet likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics