29 replies to this topic

[scottinash]

I was observing the moon on the nights of April 5 and 6th 2025 and noticed an interesting feature (to me) just West of craters Godin and Godin C.  This unnamed 12-13km crater was casting a uniquely significant western shadow.  A look at this region via Quickmap indicated that the crater floor was much higher than most of the surrounding surface exterior to the crater itself (appx 1,400 meters it seems).  I know, I know, I'm sure there must be many more features like this across the surface, but this one distinctly reminded me of Machu Picchu.  I was a bit surprised that it doesn't have an official name.  

 

A few days after my observation Physicsman shared a spectacular image of this region that he made on April 5 @ 19.15UT and there it was, Machu Picchu!   I typed up my observation and shared with him; thought I'd post on CN for anyone who may be interested as well.  Three days later and the significant shadow was reduced, and "Machu Picchu" was cloaked from visual uniqueness.   Got to love the dynamic moon!

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[scottinash]

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[scottinash]

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Edited by scottinash, 20 May 2025 - 02:54 PM.

[Physicsman]

Well done, Scott. I'm delighted that our discussion on "Machu Picchu" has been aired on here.

 

I'm sure you'd be happy if any other images surfaced - and were posted-up.

 

What was it the critics say about Moon observing? "The Moon is dead, boring and not worth wasting time on".

 

Yeh, right.....

[RobDob]

You guys are at it again , as always, great stuff!  And, I just happened to dig up an image from May 5 - while imaging the X and V, with Machu Picchu included...(although with a little more shadow).

 

Edit: Noticed It has an interesting wedge shape to it.

 

Another Edit: I see it as a big exclamation point '!' like the little picture on our keyboards '1' key?

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Edited by RobDob, 20 May 2025 - 07:41 PM.

[Physicsman]

Oh yes, Rob.....

 

I send batches of images over the Pond to Scott and he manages to dig out details my eyes gloss over.

 

It all adds plenty of interest to what, to the casual observer, might be perceived as a "pretty picture".

 

My attention was always drawn to the Triesnecker rilles, or detail inside Godin/Agrippa, so "Machu Picchu" never got noticed until now.

[scottinash]

Thanks for sharing this, Rob.  A good image and another interesting perspective at that lightning angle, eh.  I had to tilt my head to the right to reorient...my wife walked by when I was doing so and asked "what in the world are you doing?!" HA!  That "<" sure is shinning bright above the terminator!

[scottinash]

The 1968 (LAC-59) Geologic Map of Mare Vaporum Quadrangle (attached) lacks substantial analysis. The newer Chinese Geologic Map isn't much help either.  It could be due to the area's small size and insignificance, but, to me it looks like a crater.  Any thoughts or theories are welcome.

 

EDIT to add  >  link to the aforementioned Quadrangle map < where the scale is noted.

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Edited by scottinash, 21 May 2025 - 10:33 AM.

[scottinash]

Oculum's new Detailed Topographical Lunar Atlas - Near Side (DTLA-NS) effectively shows the elevation details of the feature, highlighting a plateau-like shape rather than cratered circular.  This reduced crop is attached for illustration; the actual atlas resolution is much better! 

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Edited by scottinash, 21 May 2025 - 10:22 AM.

[Physicsman]

Scott, what is the quoted resolution on that Chinese map?

 

It looks like the smallest crater features are around 5km diameter. The craterlet on top of the Machu Picchu wedge looks to be of a comparable size. But I'm wondering if it isn't a crater but a shadow effect created by a cliff face.

 

The shape of the wedge reminds me of a Ferengi cruiser, for those familiar with the Trek genre.

Edited by Physicsman, 21 May 2025 - 11:52 AM.

[Physicsman]

Oculum's new Detailed Topographical Lunar Atlas - Near Side (DTLA-NS) effectively shows the elevation details of the feature, highlighting a plateau-like shape rather than cratered circular.  This reduced crop is attached for illustration; the actual atlas resolution is much better! 

Spot on. John strikes again!

 

Backs up my "supposition"....or should we call it "inspired guess"?

[scottinash]

Scott, what is the quoted resolution on that Chinese map?

 

It looks like the smallest crater features are around 5km diameter. The fraternity on top of the Machu Picchu wedge looks to be of a comparable size. But I'm wondering if it isn't a crater but a shadow effect created both a cliff face.

 

The shape of the wedge reminds me of a Ferengi cruiser, for those familiar with the Trek genre.

I edited to add the link to the Geologic map in the prior post.  It has the scale information.

[macpurity]

Here's a closer look (but resolution gets lost on CN). 

 

The floor of the elevated crater is ~1400 meters above the base level to the west (eastern floor of Dembowski C). The south peak is about another 1400 meters above the floor level. 

 

Also note a ~1.5km wide crater within the elevated crater as well as a crater on the west side of the south peak. Interesting feature.

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[scottinash]

Excellent!  Thank you. 

[jonbosley]

Great find Scott! I checked through my library of images to see if I had caught this and found an image I took back in December 2022 with the 18”. Here is a crop of the crater area. 

Jon
 

Edited by jonbosley, 21 May 2025 - 05:11 PM.

[scottinash]

Great capture of the illuminated western slope!  The elevation is very obvious.   Now, I’m back to “definitely looks a crater”. Thanks, Jon.  

[jonbosley]

Great capture of the illuminated western slope!  The elevation is very obvious.   Now, I’m back to “definitely looks a crater”. Thanks, Jon.  

Taking a quick  look at this, it is a bit of an odd ball, the southwest wall is heavily eroded. In my image the southeast wall looks breached with flooding running down to the lunar surface but checking with LROC it is not, it is a second more recent smaller impact that has disintegrated the southeast wall. The overall contorted shape is a result of later smaller impacts breaking up the original walls, you can pick some out on the zoomed in LROC image though not much of them remains.
It gets more interesting, attached directly to its north is another smaller elevated impact approximately 500m higher.

An overlooked feature, that I would say is an old impact crater that landed on top a raised ridge followed by later impacts and flooding. 
 

Jon

[Physicsman]

Great find Scott! I checked through my library of images to see if I had caught this and found an image I took back in December 2022 with the 18”. Here is a crop of the crater area. 

Jon
 

IMG_2591.jpeg

That's a great image, Jon. Great resolution and the advantage of the western "cliff face" not being in deep shadow.

 

I'll have to look back over the last 3 year's worth of Sinus Medii images, but I'm certain I've nothing quite as clear as that.

[scottinash]

Check out this Apollo 10 orbital image of Godin crater and surroundings, including a wonderful glance at our elevated crater/plateau.    

 

Reduced image attached .  West is up, North to the right.   Full resolution is >here< ....a must see!

 

 

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[scottinash]

In addition to the aforementioned Apollo 10 image, if you are interested in the flight transcripts/journals like I am, Godin flyover is at ~ 132:29. >here<

[Physicsman]

Well dug out, Scott.

 

I'm being lazy, nah, I'm not home at the moment, but did you check our Kaguya flight charts? From memory, I'm sure there's at least one view with the probe travelling South over the region. No doubt my memory will be at fault!

 

Edit: And those transcripts almost make me feel I'm there, with Tom Stafford.

 

But you do know it was all filmed in a Hollywood studio, don't you.....

Edited by Physicsman, 22 May 2025 - 09:08 AM.

[scottinash]

Well dug out, Scott.

 

I'm being lazy, nah, I'm not home at the moment, but did you check our Kaguya flight charts? From memory, I'm sure there's at least one view with the probe travelling South over the region. No doubt my memory will be at fault!

 

Edit: And those transcripts almost make me feel I'm there, with Tom Stafford.

 

But you do know it was all filmed in a Hollywood studio, don't you.....

I did a quick check of the KAGUYA trajectories and didn’t see a direct flyover charted.  I did attempt to view a couple close proximity files but the JAXA site seems to be heavily throttling bandwidth lately so I gave up after waiting several mins. 
 

Regarding your Hollywood remark….well, you know what they say about the “lunatics” on the “lunar” observing forum…..just say’n….

Edited by scottinash, 22 May 2025 - 09:37 AM.

[scottinash]

Another Edit: I see it as a big exclamation point '!' like the little picture on our keyboards '1' key?

Rob, I was looking at your image again and that “!” finally popped out and now I cannot stop seeing it.   

[Alex65]

I was also observing the Moon on the 5th. April, 2025. I am not a Astro photographer, nor do I own a large aperture 'scope. However, here is an afocal snap that I took through my 6" Dob showing the elevated region casting a nice shadow westwards. The center appears elevated in relation to the surrounding area and I never thought of it as a crater but as some kind of mountain plateau. Great to see the various photos here showing it in closer detail than I have ever had of it. 

 

 

Photo taken 5th. April, 2025 at 2115 UT. 6" Dob, 15mm Eyepiece.

[Physicsman]

Nice image, Alex. 

 

It seems the plateau was very prominent that evening. Funny how such a relatively "anonymous" feature can provoke so much discussion. The nearby, spectacular, rimae are being totally ignored.