16 replies to this topic

[dmilner]

A few days ago I started a topic in this forum asking about future plans people had on building an observatory. I started this hoping to get ideas about and trends toward what most amateur astronomers are planning with their observatory builds. So far that topic hasn't been as fruitful as I was hoping. I then started a topic concerning automating an observatory to perhaps stimulate more ideas and trends toward building an observatory. While that topic proved more fruitful, it mainly enlightened me as to the availability and usefulness of a turnkey system and it's applicability to both an ROR as well as a domed observatory. My dad and I built a domed observatory for my 10" newtonian about 50 years ago (long long before the internet or premanufactured domes) and placed it on a hilltop several miles from our house. Because of the inconvenience of accessing it, the telescope/observatory didn't get used that much and we ended up burning the observatory down after a while. Obviously I still have the telescope. So because of that, I've never really considered building a domed observatory again. However, the previous two topics I started have made me consider that option again. But upon looking at some pros and cons of domed vs ROR observatories, there seems to be some concern about security issues from the attention domed observatories receive. Is this a major problem realistically? I know astronomy equipment gets stolen from time-to-time, but do people who own domed observatories have a major problem with this compared to those with a ROR (espescially if located in their backyard instead of remotely)? I would think that more of an issue for domed observatories would be their acceptability with an HOA if one has to contend with that...am I wrong?

[Phil Perry]

Well, a domed structure is certainly more eye-catching than something that looks like a garden shed. If some punk is looking for some place to break into and steal from, there could be valuable stuff inside a shed, too, so I don't know if one is more secure than the other. You would just have to build them equally sturdily, with an alarm system if the local situation warrants it. Something ramshackle-looking might cause a thief to give it a pass (obviously just junk inside).

 

With regards to an HOA, something that looks like a well-kept (i.e., not ramshackle) backyard garden shed would probably attract less negative interest from the Karens than an exotic looking dome. Even a rotating roof on a rectangular building ought to pass muster, provided you park it properly by daybreak. No guarantees, though.

[palaback]

You are asking some good questions. I have been automating my remote observatory so have a few observations. First I got an Exploradome kit several years ago. It is very solid, and has a regular steel door with deadbolt locks so it quite secure. A determined thief could probably pry off the dome, but it’s pretty safe. You can buy an expensive automation package for it which seemed quite involved to me. Instead I bought a Nexdome automation package and adapted it to the Exploradome. I bought a gear for the dome from Exploradome and then learned how to modify driver for nexdome so it would translate movements to exact compass positions. This was actually quite simple to install and was complete with a usb connection to my mini computer. I am not an engineer or even much of a mechanic so it took me a while to figure things out. But even for me it’s been a good project. Far and a way the trickiest part is making precise measurements of mount position so that the dome precisely tracks the movement of your scope. The door over the aperture is more of a problem since the Exploradome is much heavier a door than the nexdome. Mine closes the door fine but is not strong enough to always open properly. But it’s a fairly simple mechanical problem.  So I think for your application getting a nexdome with the automation kit would be a good way to go. I have seen lots of people do this successfully. There will be some tinkering involved to get it right but there is an active community of users to help you out, here and at the nexdome users facebook page.  An automated observatory is a huge game changer for Astronomy especially for photography. So I hope you can do it.

[kathyastro]

There is no inherent reason why a dome would be more or less secure than a ROR.  Certainly, it is more attention-grabbing.  But both can contain valuable equipment and both can be broken into by determined thieves.  Both can also be secured by locks and other hardware and by cameras.

 

As for HOAs, I have never had the misfortune to have to deal with one.  What the rules are and how strictly they are enforced are, as far as I can tell, just something you have to live with.

[ScottN]

I agree with Katyastro, one is no more secure than the other, assuming you secure them well.  We build a dome off of a garage (2nd floor control room and observatory) visible on a lake.  It is definitely an eye catcher and everyone on the lake knows it (and shows it to guests on boat rides).  Since it was so obvious I did put an alarm system on the premises including cameras (but they are mostly for remote operation and watching the inside of the dome and weather).  No attempted break-ins after 16 years.   HOA was actually excited about my building it, as it was something unusual and added a special aspect to the lake's many homes.  

 

Ground level, backyard domes/roll-offs may be more vulnerable than my second story, built-into a garage structure, but an alarm system and sticker should help.  Not sure why an HOA would be troubled if the design is clean and within boundaries of a property.  It could add excitement to the area. 

[JimTheEngineer]

In my HOA, I had no issues with a TI 6ft dome out in the backyard near my pool. I actually had more issues with a Generac than the observatory. What may have been on my side was the observatory was not taller than my 6-1/2ft fence. I built a 10x10 wood deck to put it on. No issues with security and plenty of cameras and lights.

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Edited by JimTheEngineer, 21 May 2025 - 12:25 PM.

[dmilner]

After reading the thread by peculiar_polar_ring concerning dome manufacturers, I kinda agree with the post by SpacedCowboy:

"I think what this thread is telling me is that the current realistic choice is to

1) Wait for the SkyShed-S to have automation and get one of those
2) Build a ROR observatory (or have one built).

Apart from that, all I'm really reading are horror stories..."

As long as HOA (if there is one) approves and the security issue is basically identical, there seems to be no preferred setup between the two mentioned above. Both seem to have their pros and cons. Anyway, thanks to everyone who've shared tips, suggestions, experiences, and knowledge. I deeply appreciate it and will consider everything that has been brought up as I determine the best type of observatory for my needs and desires.

[star acres]

I'm shopping for Fee Simple land. No HOA's, which are a particular form of covenants. If you chose the self inflicted route, the story is life comes without guarantees. Anything is possible, including pure malice. It's chance, so play what you enjoy.

[Phil Perry]

 HOA was actually excited about my building it, as it was something unusual and added a special aspect to the lake's many homes.  

 

Ground level, backyard domes/roll-offs may be more vulnerable than my second story, built-into a garage structure, but an alarm system and sticker should help.  Not sure why an HOA would be troubled if the design is clean and within boundaries of a property.  It could add excitement to the area. 

It sounds like you are lucky enough to have an HOA that is mature and open minded. Too many I've heard about would go ballistic over any structure that doesn't match the desired style of the area. A dome, or even a round building, would be trouble. A ROR or rotating roof on a conventional-looking building might pass muster -- it would be unconventional looking only at night, when no one can see it anyway. Anyway, before purchasing any property, where you might want to build an observatory, be sure to see if there is an HOA, and talk to them.

 

Regarding a second-story observatory, anything that boosts you above the ground clutter is desirable (as is any increased security). However, if you don't have an independent pier for the mount, you'll have to beef up the floor structure to stiffen it so it won't bounce as you walk around. Just keep that in mind.
 

[ScottN]

Phil, absolutely on the "second story shake."  Any scope not tied to a stable, concrete mount to the ground will endure shaking from not only walking but wind as well (especially if for astrophotography).  I ran a 2' in diameter concrete pillar from the 2nd floor to a slab 5' in the ground (below frost line), and nothing related to the observatory touches the mount.  It stands separately within the structure.   My website is starmere.smugmug.com if interested.  Scott

[JimTheEngineer]

I wouldn’t build an observatory into the house structure. From a real estate perspective, it will reduce the value of your property or at best provide zero value if an architect is hired and expensive/high quality materials are used (ie: stone walls, spiral staircase, ash dome). Never count on recouping any of your investment. There are significantly more people that would look at this investment as a liability.

Build it so that you can remove all traces of it. In my case, I can remove the deck and cut off the 4x4 posts below grade, and my hunk of concrete for the pier is just below grade where the pier attaches. I can then put sod over everything like it was never there.

Edited by JimTheEngineer, 22 May 2025 - 11:22 AM.

[Phil Perry]

There are significantly more people that would look at this investment as a liability.

Build it so that you can remove all traces of it.

What are your thoughts on selling a home with such an observatory? Do you casually mention it, and say you will remove it if the buyer doesn't want it, or do you hope that an astronomer will buy it (particularly if it's a Dark Skies area), possibly at a premium? In other words, would you list with the observatory still in place (but clear that you're willing to remove it on your dime), and hope it doesn't scare off too many buyers right at the start, and might even attract some? It seems a shame that you'd put so much work into it, only to have to tear it down in order to sell, but most people aren't going to want such a thing.

 

I guess an alternative would be to make it from the start to be easily reusable for some other purpose, such as conversion into a garden storage building or pool house (ROR or rotating roof locked into place). A deep pier base can be hidden under the floor if the pier or tripod is removable.

 

Add: and if you can discard the shed (or take it with you) without too much fuss, and all that's left is a pier, stick a birdbath or an armillary on top of it!
 

Edited by Phil Perry, 23 May 2025 - 12:38 PM.

[JimTheEngineer]

My plan is to remove it before listing based on conversations with a friend that is a real estate agent AND the conversations I had with my wife when initially trying to find a suitable place for it. As much as we like our hobby, these structures are not pleasing to most people.

What are your thoughts on selling a home with such an observatory? Do you casually mention it, and say you will remove it if the buyer doesn't want it, or do you hope that an astronomer will buy it (particularly if it's a Dark Skies area), possibly at a premium? In other words, would you list with the observatory still in place (but clear that you're willing to remove it on your dime), and hope it doesn't scare off too many buyers right at the start, and might even attract some? It seems a shame that you'd put so much work into it, only to have to tear it down in order to sell, but most people aren't going to want such a thing.

I guess an alternative would be to make it from the start to be easily reusable for some other purpose, such as conversion into a garden storage building or pool house (ROR or rotating roof locked into place). A deep pier base can be hidden under the floor if the pier or tripod is removable.

[Raginar]

I live in a HOA. The rules don’t really apply to special projects like this; you’ll most likely get a ‘no’ for a dome. A ROR should be doable if you don’t tell them what you’re doing.

My best advice is to meet the intent: you’re building a shed with a trellis. Keep it superficial and focus on the landscaping and any rules for a shed like meeting the color/style of your house.

You could ask about the dome. But, I feel I know how my HOA/most HOAs would treat it. We argue about trampolines and they’re not even in the R and Rs (permanently installed ones are).

[shakafell]

We didn't have any issues with the HOA. We submitted plans for the dome as "install equipment shed with telescope". They only asked to paint it to match the house and I think there was a height restriction.

[Raginar]

Should’ve moved to your neighborhood. They ask for pictures of the design.. my Piertech shed was immediately disallowed for 'asthetics'.  

 

I'd suggest it really depends on the HOA Board.  When I first moved to the neighborhood, one specific board member disapproved anything he didn't like. It's changed since then to basically allowing any COTS product that is similar in color to the neighborhood.  

Edited by Raginar, 29 May 2025 - 02:56 PM.

[JimTheEngineer]

No problems here either.

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Edited by JimTheEngineer, 29 May 2025 - 10:20 AM.