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Repair of a Chipped 2.25-inch Diagonal

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#1 PeteDCard81

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Posted 21 May 2025 - 10:08 AM

I am attempting to repair a chipped 2.25-inch E & W Optical Cer-Vit diagonal that I want to use in a new 8-inch F/5 telescope. The diagonal was in a 10-inch F/5 telescope that fell over in a high wind event at a star party. The diagonal was ejected from the front of the telescope tube and suffered a scratch and a small clam like chip at the tip. The chip measured about 0.018 inches deep. The diagonal is 0.50 inches thick.

 

The first photo shows a 4-inch Zerodur reference optical flat on the diagonal after I removed the coating. You can see the area where the chip is located at far tip of the diagonal by the missing portions of the fringes. I used a small monochromatic light and was viewing the diagonal at an oblique angle, which explains the curved fringes. I need to build a suitable light fixture for fringe testing.

 

I tried to find a similar size diagonal to replace it. There is a substantial jump in standard diagonal sizes going from 2.14 inches to 2.60 inches. I could not find one available near my desired 2.25-inch size.

 

To rework the diagonal, I needed to affix it in the middle of a larger round disk and fill in the area around the diagonal with small pieces of a Cer-Vit so that what is being worked is more or less circular in shape. It is important to use the same type of glass as the diagonal for the fill-in pieces so that their wear rate is the same as the diagonal. It would be practically impossible to figure the diagonal if the wear rate of the fill in pieces is different from the diagonal.

 

Fortunately, I had a 0.50-inch thick slab of Cer-Vit laying around and I used a tile saw to cut it up to create the fill in pieces. This pushed the tile saw to its limits. I purchased a flat electric griddle to heat up the disk, diagonal and fill in pieces.

 

I used a 7-inch Cer-Vit disk as the base. The disk could have been made from Pyrex or similar material but not plate glass.

 

Late last fall I attempted to affix the diagonal and fill in pieces to the disk out in the garage. I sprinkled small chunks of Gugolz 73 pitch, which is on the hard side, onto the 7-inch disk. I did not check the level of the griddle before starting. After the pitch melted, I placed the diagonal and fill in pieces on the disk.  After that the diagonal and all the fill in pieces slid right off the disk. It made quite a mess. Cold weather was setting in, so I waited until this spring to try again. In the meantime, I made an 8-inch F/ 5 mirror.

 

I was successful this spring in affixing the diagonal and fill in pieces to the disk after leveling the griddle. After the assembly cooled, I cleaned off the pitch that was on the surface of the diagonal and fill-in pieces with a razor blade.

 

About 20 years ago I bought some Pyrex blanks from Newport Glass Works for the purpose of using them as grinding tools for mirrors and optical flats. I asked Newport to use a diamond saw to cut groves in a rectangular pattern into the surfaces to better distribute the grit.

 

I put a 10-inch Pyrex tool face up on my grinding and polishing machine and started grinding with #80 grit. My initial goal is to have the entire faces of the fill in pieces and the diagonal have a ground surface.

 

After that I will switch to #120 grit and will start to control the curvature and make it flat. I will use a spherometer to measure the curvature.

 

 

Mark

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Edited by PeteDCard81, 21 May 2025 - 10:13 AM.


#2 PeteDCard81

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Posted 21 May 2025 - 10:09 AM

The second photo shows the fill in pieces on the disk after cutting them with the tile saw surrounding the diagonal.

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#3 PeteDCard81

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Posted 21 May 2025 - 10:10 AM

The third photo shows the assembly on the griddle after affixing the diagonal and fill in pieces to the disk.

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#4 PeteDCard81

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Posted 21 May 2025 - 10:11 AM

The fourth photo shows the current state of disk assembly. The larger fill in pieces have some unground areas remaining near the diagonal as evidenced by the black sharpie lines.

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#5 Augustus

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Posted 21 May 2025 - 10:48 AM

Is the idea here that differential CTE matters less since it’s Cervit?

#6 PeteDCard81

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Posted 21 May 2025 - 11:44 AM

It has to do with the the hardness of the fill in pieces compared to the diagonal, not the coefficient of thermal expansion.

 

Cer-Vit is harder than Pyrex. It takes longer to grind and polished compared to Pyrex.

 

You would end up with a overall surface with abrupt change in curvature.



#7 duck

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Posted 21 May 2025 - 11:58 AM

I made a 6" MA Pyrex diagonal on an Al substrate with plate glass surrounds.  Didn't think about the difference in hardness at the time, but that diagonal is finished and tests flat enough against an 8" Pyrex flat.  I wonder about the space between your diagonal and the surrounds.  That would be more of a concern to me than the difference in hardness.  



#8 happylimpet

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Posted 22 May 2025 - 03:29 AM

Non-ATM here, so probably a misunderstanding, but as I understand it your intention is to grind/polish to a new flat surface below the level of the clam-shell chip?

 

If so, would it not make more sense just to grind/figure/polish the back of the flat, if that's undamaged?



#9 PeteDCard81

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Posted 22 May 2025 - 08:53 AM

The answer to the first question is yes. I intend to grind out the chip and polish the diagonal to be optically flat. After dismounting the diagonal I will test it again to make sure it did not change.

 

Second question. That would have been a possibility but the tail end of the diagonal, the lower part of the diagonal shown in the last photo, has been cut off to make it shorter.


Edited by PeteDCard81, 22 May 2025 - 12:11 PM.


#10 PeteDCard81

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Posted 01 June 2025 - 02:34 PM

Raining days recently afforded the opportunity to do some grinding on the diagonal assembly.

 

I finished grinding with #80 grit after 1.5 hours on the machine with all the surfaces now fully ground and have the same radius of curvature.

 

The photo shows the assembly face down (during #80 grinding) on the 10-inch faceted glass tool. The 10-inch tool is secured to an aluminum disk with a large hose clamp.

 

I intentionally kept most of the assembly during #80 grinding over the glass tool with little overhang. This naturally made the assembly more convex.

 

The holder that grabs the assembly has four threaded rods with short pieces of plastic tubing that contact the back of the assembly disk. There is a vertical pin on the machine that goes into a hole in the back of the holder.

 

I can adjust the extent of a graduated horizontal rod that comes out of the oscillating arm to vary the amount of overhang.

 

At the end of #80 grit grinding the assembly's radius of curvature measured about 500 inches convex.

 

The goal of grinding with #120 grit was to flatten the assembly and lessen the deep pits from the #80 grit. This took about 1 hour of machine time.

 

To flatten the convex assembly, I needed to wear the center more than the edge (to make it go more concave). I did this by hanging the center of the assembly closer to the edge of glass tool.

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Edited by PeteDCard81, 01 June 2025 - 03:52 PM.

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#11 PeteDCard81

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Posted 01 June 2025 - 02:43 PM

This photo shows my ring type spherometer being zeroed out on a 6-inch Pyrex optical flat.

 

The resolution of the dial indicator is 0.0001 inches. I prefer an analog dial indicator.

 

 

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#12 PeteDCard81

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Posted 01 June 2025 - 02:52 PM

This photo shows the spherometer on the assembly after finishing #120 grinding. It measured 0.0001 inches concave.

 

I experimented how far I needed to overhang the assembly to keep the radius of curvature about the same.

 

I keep a log during making a mirror, or in this case, a diagonal.

 

 

 

 

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  • Assembly Radius of Curvature.JPG



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