13 replies to this topic

[crose01]

I have a Celestron EdgeHD which via NINA and CPWI I suse for AstroImaging. All works well however I do experience random ‘Telescope Not Connected’ Errors. There seems to be no pattern her and they can occur after several hours or even while I am aligning the telescope. As far as CPWI and ASCOM are concerned the telescope is gone. It does however still respond to the SSAG Guiding commands so I usually let it complete the imaging sequence.

My big issue with this is I can’t leave the scope unattended as it will not respond to ‘park’ commands so if I leave it overnight it may cord wrap or tip over. The only fix for this is to remove power to the Celestron, reapply it and go though alignment all over again.

 

I have an open ticket with Celestron and we have looked at the CPWI logs and there is nothing that indicates a reason for this behavior.

So I’m looking for a technical solution and I am able to switch off the power to the telescope using an ASCOM plugin and sending a switch command to the Dew Heater to switch off the power to the mount.

I can insert this as an End Sequence Task after the imaging session has completed.

 

My question is can I trap the disconnect in NINA and set a variable to zero so if it occurs check if it is set bro zero it will end the sequence or if its still set to one then continue to the next target etc etc. Then shut the mount down at the end.. My big question and I’m using PowerUps is how do I detect the disconnect in NINA?

[mlord]

What devices do you have connected together with AUX in that setup?

 

The mount is one, SSAG and a Celestron Dew Controller is implied, and probably a hand-controller too?

But what else?  It matters.

 

And which mount?  "EdgeHD" describes the optical tube, not the mount.

 

Thanks

Edited by mlord, 28 May 2025 - 09:28 PM.

[crose01]

I'm using the Celestron Fork Mount to which I have attached the Hand Controller. Aux1 is connected to the Celestron Dew Heate Controller, AUX2 is connected to the Celestron StarShoot AutoGuider. The Celestron AutoFocuser is also connected to the Celestron Dew Heater Controller. I'm using CPWI Version 2.5.7 Beta 4 and the SSAG is 35.10.41.

 

Regards

Chris

[mlord]

Good and correct information is needed here for people to be able to help you.

 

There is no product called "Celestron Fork Mount".

There is no product called "StarShoot AutoGuider".

There is no product called "Celestron AutoFocuser".

 

The various mount+EdgeHD combinations packaged together by Celestron are shown here:  https://www.celestro...-and-telescopes

The actual mount you have then, is probably this:

• Celestron Evolution mount -- a single-arm fork mount with two orange coloured rings for the clutches.
• Or, a Celestron CPC Deluxe mount (800, or 1100?) dual-arm fork mount.
• Or some form of Celestron EQ mount?

The rest of the accessories, are probably these:

• Celestron StarSense AutoGuider (SSAG).
• Celestron Nexstar+ hand-controller.
• Celestron Smart Dewheater Controller 2X (or 4X?), with a Dew Heater Ring connected.
• Celestron Focus Motor.

That last one in particular, the Focus Motor product, is known to cause no end of issues when connected to AUX.

 

Since you are already using a computer with the set up, you have other options.  For testing purposes, I recommend you unplug the AUX cable from the Focus Motor, and instead connect that device via a USB cable to the computer.  CPWI will still find it if you have enabled "Support for multiple connections" in the CPWI settings pop-up.

 

Plus as many of the other AUX connections as possible, directly into the four ports of the mount, rather than daisy-chaining them from one accessory to another.

 

You did not say how the computer is connected to the mount for CPWI.  Unplug/remove the Nexstar+ hand-controller, unless you are using it with a USB cable to connect to the PC for CPWI.

 

See if those tweaks to the configuration then make things more reliable.

 

Cheers

Edited by mlord, 29 May 2025 - 09:03 AM.

[crose01]

Hi Mark

 

This is my load out.

 

Celestron StarSense AutoGuider (SSAG).
Celestron Nexstar+ hand-controller.
Celestron Smart Dewheater Controller 2X with a Dew Heater Ring connected.
Celestron Focus Motor.

Celestron CPC Deluxe Mount  9.25" dual arm fork mount

Celestron Heavy Duty Wedge

 

I've removed the AUX connection for the Celestron Focus motor so  that it has its own USB link to the Miele 3 PC which now has One link to the ZWO Imaging camera, one to the Celestron Smart Dewheater Controller 2X and one to the Celestron Focus Motor. The SSAG is connected to AUX2. I will test in this configuration and see if I get the same error. If I do I will look at reconnection options for the SSAG.

 

Judging from the CPWI logs everything Celestron communicates on they AUXBUS and there doesnt seem to be any syncronicity so the less chatty it is the better as I suspect the mount checks out when it is not able to talk to the AUXBUS. I will eliminate each component. I am looking forwards to testing this out in the next few days thank you for your suggestion.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[mlord]

For the most part, there is normally a single initiator at a time on the AUX bus.  The "mount" is always a responder, not an initiator of communications.  The initiator is whatever is being used to control alignment, be that the Nexstar+ hand-controller, or CPWI, or another app of some kind.

 

But.. SSAG breaks that paradigm, and also acts as an initiator when auto-guding is turned on.  At which point the AUX bus gets very, very busy.  That's not normally an issue though.

 

The real problem is often just electrical loading on AUX, rather than messaging.  And the Focus Motor is known to present a LARGE load to AUX, frequently the cause of communications issues.

 

In your set-up, there's a Miele 3 PC with multiple USB connections.  So potential there for a "ground loop" issue that can also disrupt comms.

 

Cheers 

[crose01]

That makes sense. I did get one disconnect while doing SSAG auto alignment not so long ago. You mention a 'ground loop' scenario. is that an electrical problem

or conflicting data?

 

One thing I am trying to differentiate is any of the components (CPWI or NINA or SSAG) actually is the master for where the system is pointing. The definitive I am assuming is NINA if a plate solve has been

successful. If the SSAG assumes something different. There's nothing in the CPWI logs that would indicate this. I do switch off precise goto's in CPWI and I disable guiding until I'm sure that I am on target and ready to begin imaging.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[mlord]

A "ground loop" is an electrical condition that happens when the "grounds" of all various pieces of interconnected gear are not at the same "zero volts" as each other.  That is, one can actually measure a voltage difference between two "ground" points in the same system.  Bad. 

 

One can read about how this pertains to Telescopes by doing a quick search:   https://www.google.c...usb ground loop

 

CPWI is normally the "master" for communications.  It sends commands to the mount and peripherals, and they then respond/reply to those commands.  CPWI manages the pointing model, aka. "alignment".  NINA goes through CPWI to do anything to the mount.

 

SSAG, when guiding, takes over partial responsibility for the pointing model, and acts as a "master" while telling the two motor-controllers (MCs) what to do.

 

Cheers

[fullthrottle_man]

This sounds similar to an issue I had crop up on my setup. My AS-GT came with the original old style hand controller (phone jack type hookup at the bottom), and I replaced it with the USB hand controller that came with my Nexstar 102SLT. For seemingly no rhyme or reason, the scope and the laptop would quit communicating. I found out through trial and error that the cord going into the back of the new hand controller was somewhat loose. If I pulled out on the cord I could easily duplicate my issue. Since then, the hand controller only gets touched when plugging and unplugging the USB cable into the bottom of it, otherwise it stays tucked solidly in the controller mount with slack to make sure the cord doesn't work it's way out to a disconnect point. Just a thought that might be worth a try...

[crose01]

I did rewire and connected the Celestron AutoFocuser direct to the USB port on the Miele3 PC and disconnected the cable from the Celestron Dew Heater. All worked well no disconnects until five hours into the session I got an RA spike in the Celestron StarSense AutoGuider (SSAG) guide graph and CPWI informed me that the mount was disconnected although it continued to guide (I did loose that frame). I will continue to rewire in the hope that I actually find the culprit which I suspect is the Celestron StarSense AutoGuider.

 

To ensure that I can go to bed and not wake up to my scope being wound up in cables I am going to purchase a power controller such that as soon as my NINA sequence completes it will power down the mount after first trying to park it. I have an 'on failure' trigger in my sequence so it will notify me via Pushover should it occur. Unfortunately in NINA the disconnect only generates a warning and I can't at the moment trap this and assign it to a trigger

[mlord]

Lose the Nexstar+ hand-controller as well then, since it's not needed for anything in that setup.  That just might drop the bus loading enough to stabilize things.

[crose01]

I should have stated that it was disconnected at the time. So the only things on the daisy chain are the Celestron CPC Deluxe Mount  9.25" dual arm fork mount ---> Celestron Smart Dewheater Controller and Celestron StarSense AutoGuider (SSAG)--> 2X Celestron Smart Dewheater Controller 2X and CPWI is controlling the setup. Power for the Celestron CPC Deluxe Mount  9.25" dual arm fork mount is the 2X Celestron Smart Dewheater Controller 2X

 

Initially I though the AF was the issue and it ,may contribute however I've had the mount disconnect during a CPWI alignment using the Celestron StarSense AutoGuider (SSAG which leads me to ut being my prime supect

[mlord]

I've had the mount disconnect during a CPWI alignment using the Celestron StarSense AutoGuider (SSAG which leads me to ut being my prime supect

I assume you are using up-to-date firmware for the SSAG device, and the mount?

Personally, I would not suspect the SSAG of being behind disconnects during alignment.  It is generally quite rock solid there, and your main concern is more about disconnects later during the session.

 

If you are using SSAG for auto-guiding, then yes, I might suspect it of causing trouble later on.  A simple way to test, is to NOT use it for auto-guiding, and see if the issues go away.

 

If issues persist, then it's very, like, EXTREMELY likely to be one or both of these:

• AUX bus signalling issues from having multiple devices connected.
• USB ground loop issues.

It is difficult for you to know which, unless you can temporarily simplify the set-up even more, by removing the Dew Controller from all wiring and trying again.  And you could try running the computer completely from battery power (no AC connections) to try and alleviate grounding problems.

 

There are USB ground loop isolation devices to cure that type of thing.

And the HBG3-Relay device was invented to solve AUX bus signalling issues.

 

Cheers

[crose01]

Yes I have the latest CPWI and SSAG software loaded. I'm halfway to your suggestion to eliminate the culprit. I had the rig powered up with no guiding or autofocus and I got a disconnect after several hours. I will re run the same

test with no SSAG so there is only the mount nd dew heater connected. I will get a HBG3-Relay setup as I think the ability to directly connect my PC to the mount is rather dire.