8 replies to this topic

[Dwarfy]

I see on photo's of the ASI2600MC/MM Air that its cooling fan is differently mounted than on the ASI2600 Pro series. Does that mean ZWO has addressed the cooling fan vibration issue?

Edited by Dwarfy, 29 May 2025 - 10:45 AM.

[James Peirce]

Not sure about the Air. But I had to replace the fan on my 2600MC Duo. They attempted to upgrade the way it is mounted. It had some rubber vibration dampeners instead of just being a hard connection like in prior Pro models. But it wasn’t enough.

 

I suspect the main issue, here, is just copy variation on these fans. Even some higher end ones really aren’t designed with a use case like this in mind—they’re designed for general electronics. And where there’s concern beyond that, it has more to do with sound than it does vibration, even if designing a quieter fan tends to also involve reducing vibration.

 

I’ve replaced three fans in ZWO cameras with Fractal Design Silent Series fans—not proactively, but in response to having issues with fan vibration—and one of my would-be replacement Fractal Design fans was also bad. You can see that sort of thing bearing out in mixed experiences people have had with replacement parts used by others.

 

A company like ZWO probably needs to do some sort of bench testing on fans to cull out the relatively worse models, in addition to improving the mounting design, if the desire is to send no problem children out into the wild. They’re using a decent fan, but maybe that should be re-evaluated as well. Tough to say. I’d suspect some of this just doesn’t make financial sense. It would probably be expensive to automate only to resolve an issue that is noticed by a small fraction of their buyers. And many who are affected may notice some degradation in images, but will never think to blame it on the fan. It can be quite a bit more subtle on a refractor with a relatively small field of view vs an SCT.

 

That may read like this is a bit ZWO thing. The issue affects other cameras which use these sort of fans as well. ZWO just sells a lot of cameras, and is the subject of some discussion that has taken place and is being discovered, so much of the discussion revolves around them.

[vtaDan]

How does one distinguish fan vibration as a cause of imaging issues?

[Phil Perry]

How does one distinguish fan vibration as a cause of imaging issues?

I suppose you could turn off the drive and let the stars trail across the image (at high power). Vibration from a fan ought to give a regular wave pattern (something close to sinusoidal).

[Dwarfy]

I just wonder if ZWO has changed (improved?) the fan mounting for the relatively new ASI2600MC/MM Air, looking at the difference between the Pro & Duo and the Air, see photo's.

 

Attached Thumbnails

• 
• 

[Dwarfy]

Or in other words, is anyone using the ASI2600MC/MM Air having problems with vibration from the cooling fan?

[vidrazor]

That may read like this is a bit ZWO thing. The issue affects other cameras which use these sort of fans as well. ZWO just sells a lot of cameras, and is the subject of some discussion that has taken place and is being discovered, so much of the discussion revolves around them.

I'm surprised fans aren't suspended on spider suspensions, similar to microphone shock mounts.

 

In running the PHD2 Guiding Assistant, the PHD2 team plotted high frequency jitter on axis measurement, as you can see below. Though most of it comes from seeing conditions, some of it comes from the cooling motors on astro cameras. This is partly why I find the passively cooled Starvis sensor cameras form Player One, the Uranus-C and Saturn-C, very attractive. The combination of the Starvis sensors and passive cooling negates the need for active cooling, and really I wish there were more passively cooled cameras available. Not only do they eliminate fan vibration, they also don't need a 12 volt feed, and are smaller and lighter.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Edited by vidrazor, 29 May 2025 - 06:56 PM.

[James Peirce]

I'm surprised fans aren't suspended on spider suspensions, similar to microphone shock mounts.

 

In running the PHD2 Guiding Assistant, the PHD2 team plotted high frequency jitter on axis measurement, as you can see below. Though most of it comes from seeing conditions, some of it comes from the cooling motors on astro cameras. This is partly why I find the passively cooled Starvis sensor cameras form Player One, the Uranus-C and Saturn-C, very attractive. The combination of the Starvis sensors and passive cooling negates the need for active cooling, and really I wish there were more passively cooled cameras available. Not only do they eliminate fan vibration, they also don't need a 12 volt feed, and are smaller and lighter.

I solved the fan vibration on my cameras like some of the other folks have: with silicone pegs. And I’ve wondered whether it makes sense for them to do something like this, or a variation like you’ve suggested.

 

I’d wager it would be done if it was felt necessary to sell a product, but instead it’s just an assembly and automation issue that doesn’t make financial senses to solve. By comparison, bolting a fan on with some silicone washers is much simpler.

 

In regard to the passive cooling, interesting.

 

My first curiosity would be how effective the passive cooling is compared to active cooling; including relative to variation in ambient temperatures. I do like that they have a separate active cooling module that can be added to the cameras so buyers can select the configuration which is right for them, and upgrade if they change their minds.

 

Also hadn’t really considered that, with the modern, clean sensors, you won’t necessarily have the same reliance on reaching a target temperature for calibration.

[Kevin_A]

I replaced all 4 of my ZWO camera fans with Fractal fans. I tried other premium fans but they were no better than Sunon for vibrations due to their high RPM. The reduced speed does require more cooling power, but they are much better in regards to vibrations. I tried the silicone posts but they made no difference to my testing. Before switching, I could feel the fan vibrations in the camera bodies… not any more!
I do not think the Fractal fans are actually much better than other fans, but they just run at a slower RPM and thus a bit less vibration at the sacrifice of needing more power to achieve the same cooling. A suspension setup would have been much better in all circumstances.

Edited by Kevin_A, 06 June 2025 - 06:55 AM.