16 replies to this topic

[sideshowkevin]

Hello!

 

I am located at a latitude of 44.5°N, and the Seestar S50 shows an altitude value of 45° when I switch into EQ mode.  So that means I need to have the rough angle read as at least 44° to start the EQ mode calibration.

 

All of my calibrations end up high with respect to altitude, so I always have to adjust the Seestar away from the rough angle target.  Consequently, I never have the opportunity to have it reevaluate again from my final setting.  If I want to solve again, I have to adjust out of alignment to pass the first rough 1° requirement.

 

My question is if this is just a unique flaw of being located halfway between latitude degrees, or does everyone have this problem?  I wish there was a way for me reprogram that initial rough value.  Theoretically, I could set altitude once and then never again, instead of having to set it 100% of the time, and purposely make it worse to even get started.

 

Thanks,

Kevin S.

[Phil Perry]

According to my carefully leveled Skywatcher EQ mount, I'm at 42N (actually 42o 1'), but when Seestar goes through the EQ calibration routine, it tells me I'm at 45 to 47 degrees elevation and should adjust down several degrees. I don't know if the scale on the mount is several degrees off, or what, but the Seestar seems to be happy once I'm down to 0.5 or less error on both axes (green/green). I'm usually getting dramatically fewer rejected frames than I did in Alt-Az mode, and it's nice not to have to waste the image corners on long exposures.

 

WRT to the "whole degree" issue, yes, the Seestar seems to only display in increments of 1 degree, but then the calibration report is in 0.1 degree increments.

[WillR]

I’m not sure I even understand the question, particularly the second paragraph. You are unfortunately half way between two even latitudes, but almost all of us are not at an exact latitude with no decimal point. 
 

The Seestar polar alignment definitely qualifies as “good enough”. We are not aligning with a polar scope and taking 5 minute exposures. I just follow the app’s procedure and try to get within .1 or .2 degrees.

 

It’s possible to overthink this. I suspect most of the people who fret over exact alignment are veteran astrophotographers. For example, Curtis posted an entire video explaining how you have to use 90- your latitude (as opposed to your actual latitude) to set the wedge at the correct angle. People like myself, who have no AP experience other than the Seestar, didn’t even know what he was talking about. We just follow the directions in the app.

 

The whole point of the Seestar is it’s ease of use.

Edited by WillR, 10 June 2025 - 09:26 AM.

[sanford12]

If you want to use 30 second subs you really need to do a good level on your tripod. If your on grass that will change every time so kind of a pain. That's why I installed a pad. Before leveling the tripod 30 second shots were a no go, after it worked for 30 second shots but that still depends on the sky conditions at the time of use. You can tell if your mount isn't level when you adjust longitude after running deviation and your latitude reading changes while adjusting. That's because your not adjusting on a level plane. As small as the amount of adjustment is if your latitude is changing your pretty far from level and it will only get worse with more rotation.

 

After making sure of level there were a lot less dropped frames. Those that tell you level isn't that important in EQ, it most certainly is.

Edited by sanford12, 10 June 2025 - 09:47 AM.

[marvindj]

According to my carefully leveled Skywatcher EQ mount, I'm at 42N (actually 42o 1'), but when Seestar goes through the EQ calibration routine, it tells me I'm at 45 to 47 degrees elevation and should adjust down several degrees. I don't know if the scale on the mount is several degrees off, or what, but the Seestar seems to be happy once I'm down to 0.5 or less error on both axes (green/green). I'm usually getting dramatically fewer rejected frames than I did in Alt-Az mode, and it's nice not to have to waste the image corners on long exposures.

 

WRT to the "whole degree" issue, yes, the Seestar seems to only display in increments of 1 degree, but then the calibration report is in 0.1 degree increments.

If you have updated to the latest software/firmware (2.5/4.70) I found others stating somewhat similar issues with the initial latitude settings and then the correction required as requested after a Polar Alignment Deviation (PAD) calculation. In my case, my latitude is 44 degrees and was set accordingly according the app. After the PAD with the updates software/firmware it was asking to adjust the latitude back down to 41 degrees. 

 

The "fix" was to perform a Level Calibration. Ensure the Seestar is on a level surface. After performing this, the PAD showed 44 degrees (correct value) rather than 41.

[Phil Perry]

If you have updated to the latest software/firmware (2.5/4.70) I found others stating somewhat similar issues with the initial latitude settings and then the correction required as requested after a Polar Alignment Deviation (PAD) calculation. In my case, my latitude is 44 degrees and was set accordingly according the app. After the PAD with the updates software/firmware it was asking to adjust the latitude back down to 41 degrees. 

 

The "fix" was to perform a Level Calibration. Ensure the Seestar is on a level surface. After performing this, the PAD showed 44 degrees (correct value) rather than 41.

Yes, I am running the latest. I will have to give the level calibration a try next time. When the unit is mounted at a 40-something degree angle, it can still figure out what "level" is?

 

I'm wondering if I should create a perfectly level surface (using a 24" carpenter's spirit level) and calibrate the internal level sensor (again) using that (in alt-az mode). There are two "leveling" procedures -- one is to calibrate the sensor (given the machine is in a measured level position), and the other is to measure how level the machine actually is (using the internal sensor) when set up in the field, giving the overlapping green discs. Come to think of it, which one are you referring to when you say "Level Calibration"? The second?

[sideshowkevin]

I’m not sure I even understand the question, particularly the second paragraph. You are unfortunately half way between two even latitudes, but almost all of us are not at an exact latitude with no decimal point. 
 

The Seestar polar alignment definitely qualifies as “good enough”. We are not aligning with a polar scope and taking 5 minute exposures. I just follow the app’s procedure and try to get within .1 or .2 degrees.

 

It’s possible to overthink this. I suspect most of the people who fret over exact alignment are veteran astrophotographers. For example, Curtis posted an entire video explaining how you have to use 90- your latitude (as opposed to your actual latitude) to set the wedge at the correct angle. People like myself, who have no AP experience other than the Seestar, didn’t even know what he was talking about. We just follow the directions in the app.

 

The whole point of the Seestar is it’s ease of use.

Ah, sorry to be imprecise.  I am particularly interested in trying 60s subs, but I cannot get the polar alignment accuracy required.  I find that the values drift around a lot.  What I would really like to do is get a first pass result and then run the whole algorithm again to either verify the correct alignment or provide opportunity for continued adjustments.  However, because the actual true alignment is outside of the limits of the initial rough check, I am not able to start a second evaluation.

 

I am certainly not a veteran astrophotographer, but I have noticed that even when the polar alignment is sufficient for the Seestar (errors less than 1.0), I get ovalized stars at 30s subs and 60s subs have a large rejection rate.  So I am trying to get down to 0.0 - 0.2 but also verify it.

 

I used to have a metal straw attached that I used for polar alignment before the official update.  I wonder if I should just go back to this.  With the initial position of the power button up, there isn't as convenient a location though.

[sideshowkevin]

If you have updated to the latest software/firmware (2.5/4.70) I found others stating somewhat similar issues with the initial latitude settings and then the correction required as requested after a Polar Alignment Deviation (PAD) calculation. In my case, my latitude is 44 degrees and was set accordingly according the app. After the PAD with the updates software/firmware it was asking to adjust the latitude back down to 41 degrees. 

 

The "fix" was to perform a Level Calibration. Ensure the Seestar is on a level surface. After performing this, the PAD showed 44 degrees (correct value) rather than 41.

Thanks, I will try this!  I have not done a level calibration in a long time actually.  I tried a compass calibration the other day, and it wouldn't even start up.  But maybe going back into EQ to do these calibrations every now and then is important.

[Amazed]

Intresting
I was tring to capture the sun two weeks ago and the app said to level up the tripod and showed the two balls at.about 2.0 apart. So I adjusted the tripod legs until the balls aligned as one.
The sat down in my lawn chair and looked at the scope from a short distance. 😅 by eye anyone could tell the scope tilted to one side by alot!
I assue I need to calibrate the level sensor, but how?
Does anyone have a proceedure on how?
Thanks

[mourip]

Yes, I am running the latest. I will have to give the level calibration a try next time. When the unit is mounted at a 40-something degree angle, it can still figure out what "level" is?

 

I'm wondering if I should create a perfectly level surface (using a 24" carpenter's spirit level) and calibrate the internal level sensor (again) using that (in alt-az mode). There are two "leveling" procedures -- one is to calibrate the sensor (given the machine is in a measured level position), and the other is to measure how level the machine actually is (using the internal sensor) when set up in the field, giving the overlapping green discs. Come to think of it, which one are you referring to when you say "Level Calibration"? The second?

My understanding is that the initial calibration which is done with the unmounted scope on a known perfectly level surface creates the "gold standard" against which the routine alignment (for either EQ or Alt/Az) can compare. It seems possible that with time this initial calibration might need to be redone. Nothing to lose!

[mourip]

Intresting
I was tring to capture the sun two weeks ago and the app said to level up the tripod and showed the two balls at.about 2.0 apart. So I adjusted the tripod legs until the balls aligned as one.
The sat down in my lawn chair and looked at the scope from a short distance. by eye anyone could tell the scope tilted to one side by alot!
I assue I need to calibrate the level sensor, but how?
Does anyone have a proceedure on how?
Thanks

Lots of YouTube videos with screen captures. I used a good quality round bubble level on a surface that I could shim to achieve level.

 

I should add that I did not know about this crucial calibration and struggled until I found out about it...

Edited by mourip, 10 June 2025 - 12:24 PM.

[marvindj]

Yes, I am running the latest. I will have to give the level calibration a try next time. When the unit is mounted at a 40-something degree angle, it can still figure out what "level" is?

 

I'm wondering if I should create a perfectly level surface (using a 24" carpenter's spirit level) and calibrate the internal level sensor (again) using that (in alt-az mode). There are two "leveling" procedures -- one is to calibrate the sensor (given the machine is in a measured level position), and the other is to measure how level the machine actually is (using the internal sensor) when set up in the field, giving the overlapping green discs. Come to think of it, which one are you referring to when you say "Level Calibration"? The second?

I simply took it off the tripod and placed it on a level surface (using a bubble level to make sure it was level). In my case, it was my desk but your choice where to level calibrate. Just make sure its a measured level surface.

[bradhaak]

Hello!

 

I am located at a latitude of 44.5°N, and the Seestar S50 shows an altitude value of 45° when I switch into EQ mode.  So that means I need to have the rough angle read as at least 44° to start the EQ mode calibration.

 

All of my calibrations end up high with respect to altitude, so I always have to adjust the Seestar away from the rough angle target.  Consequently, I never have the opportunity to have it reevaluate again from my final setting.  If I want to solve again, I have to adjust out of alignment to pass the first rough 1° requirement.

 

My question is if this is just a unique flaw of being located halfway between latitude degrees, or does everyone have this problem?  I wish there was a way for me reprogram that initial rough value.  Theoretically, I could set altitude once and then never again, instead of having to set it 100% of the time, and purposely make it worse to even get started.

 

Thanks,

Kevin S.

This sounds perfectly normal to me. 

 

Keep in mind that you don't set your altitude angle to your latitude. You set it to the complement of your latitude, IOW 90-latitude. That's why you set your angle to level (zero degrees) at the poles, so you are pointing at Polaris (roughly speaking). If you set the angle to the latitude at either of the poles, the scope would be on it's side. 

 

So being one degree off at 44.5 degrees latitude makes perfect sense.

 

But this whole thing gets even more confused because some wedges are numbered from the zenith. If that's the case, you actually use your latitude instead of the complement. Most if not all camera heads, like the one ZWO is selling, use the complement. Some astro heads like the iOptron or Skywatcher have zero at the zenith, but others don't. So you have to check whether, at level, it indicates zero or ninety degrees. Zero means use the complement, and ninety means use the latitude.

 

So, my best and totally serious advice is to get it close and then trust what the Seestar is telling you. It's taking pictures and plate solving to figure out your correct alignment, so it knows the correct position much better than you do. And calibrating the level of your S50 isn't going to make any difference about where it points you.

 

Good luck!

[marvindj]

"And calibrating the level of your S50 isn't going to make any difference about where it points you."

 

That is correct. I failed to mention Ii never affected the capturing of images. I just found that the offset the Polar Adjustment was asking me to do was annoying. 

[WillR]

Ah, sorry to be imprecise.  I am particularly interested in trying 60s subs, but I cannot get the polar alignment accuracy required.  I find that the values drift around a lot.  What I would really like to do is get a first pass result and then run the whole algorithm again to either verify the correct alignment or provide opportunity for continued adjustments.  However, because the actual true alignment is outside of the limits of the initial rough check, I am not able to start a second evaluation.

 

I am certainly not a veteran astrophotographer, but I have noticed that even when the polar alignment is sufficient for the Seestar (errors less than 1.0), I get ovalized stars at 30s subs and 60s subs have a large rejection rate.  So I am trying to get down to 0.0 - 0.2 but also verify it.

 

I used to have a metal straw attached that I used for polar alignment before the official update.  I wonder if I should just go back to this.  With the initial position of the power button up, there isn't as convenient a location though.

I have only tried 60” subs once, and the results were poor, so I haven ‘t tried it since. But lately I’ve only been using the Seestar for EAA and as a finder chart for small, faint galaxies so I can find t(em in my 10”.

[sideshowkevin]

This sounds perfectly normal to me. 

 

Keep in mind that you don't set your altitude angle to your latitude. You set it to the complement of your latitude, IOW 90-latitude. That's why you set your angle to level (zero degrees) at the poles, so you are pointing at Polaris (roughly speaking). If you set the angle to the latitude at either of the poles, the scope would be on it's side. 

 

So being one degree off at 44.5 degrees latitude makes perfect sense.

 

But this whole thing gets even more confused because some wedges are numbered from the zenith. If that's the case, you actually use your latitude instead of the complement. Most if not all camera heads, like the one ZWO is selling, use the complement. Some astro heads like the iOptron or Skywatcher have zero at the zenith, but others don't. So you have to check whether, at level, it indicates zero or ninety degrees. Zero means use the complement, and ninety means use the latitude.

 

So, my best and totally serious advice is to get it close and then trust what the Seestar is telling you. It's taking pictures and plate solving to figure out your correct alignment, so it knows the correct position much better than you do. And calibrating the level of your S50 isn't going to make any difference about where it points you.

 

Good luck!

Thanks for your response!  But I think my overall complaint is still misunderstood.  Usually it is too dark to see what my Skywatcher head says on the markings, so I am just doing what the app tells me to do.  In order to start the polar alignment procedure, the angle shown has to be within one degree of the angle the Seestar is telling me (this is in the angle view).  Once that is achieved, the polar alignment process can start, and the Seestar reports back the adjustments that are required to meet the final criteria - less than 1.0 degree and it turns green.  This is the arrow view (right/left and up/down).

 

My complaint is that when my up/down arrow view is small enough to be considered aligned (green), my rough angle is no longer within one degree in the angle view.  So I can never rerun the polar alignment.  If I want to run polar alignment again, I have to adjust it far out of alignment first, which defeats the purpose of trying to rerun it when my alignment was much closer to start with.

 

So I am trying to ascertain if this happens to everyone, or just to me.  If it happens just to me, is it because of rounding to the whole degree on the rough angle view when I am at x.5 latitude, or some other reason?  If it happens to everyone, then maybe a mandatory delta is just required.  Maybe if you have good polar alignment from the start, it is actually problematic for the plate solve algorithm?  I don't know, but if there is a way for me to not have to adjust my elevation setting every single night - first wrong and then back to right - I think that would be great!

[sideshowkevin]

If you have updated to the latest software/firmware (2.5/4.70) I found others stating somewhat similar issues with the initial latitude settings and then the correction required as requested after a Polar Alignment Deviation (PAD) calculation. In my case, my latitude is 44 degrees and was set accordingly according the app. After the PAD with the updates software/firmware it was asking to adjust the latitude back down to 41 degrees. 

 

The "fix" was to perform a Level Calibration. Ensure the Seestar is on a level surface. After performing this, the PAD showed 44 degrees (correct value) rather than 41.

Yes thank you so much! This resolved my problem completely!

 

Before level calibration, on wedge: 42/45 (unadjusted from last polar alignment)

Before level calibration, on level surface: 86/45

After level calibration, on level surface:  90/45

After level calibration, on wedge:  45/45

 

It is still light but I look forward to spending a full moon night seeing how round my stars can be at 60s subs!  Thanks again!